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Has Adam Oates Been Fired Yet????

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Old
02-21-2013, 10:03 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
food for thought. do you think barry trotz or lindy ruff ever lose the room? i would bet you that the players get tired of them as players get tired of all coaches. the difference is that in those two markets the players know that guy is the coach and it ain't gonna change. if you dont want to play for the guy, leave when you are a free agent.

i thought it at the time before things went off that boudreau was the best coach the caps had ever had. it appears his stuff was not a fluke, shootout or not.

maybe if mcphee had let him coach and backed him up as coach, it might have been different.

i really wonder. will the caps ever find another coach as good as he? i like adam oates but they are desperate to win and oates is sticking with the whole playing right is more important than winning otherwise.


Adam and Dale both... analyzed the team, and both chose basic hockey systems.

That's what you do when you have a patchwork roster: you go back to basics.

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02-21-2013, 10:06 AM
  #52
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Those two markets also lost multiple core players because they wouldn't pay them.
what does that have to do with anything?

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02-21-2013, 11:02 AM
  #53
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To the BB lovers: Adam's system does involve mobile Dmen, who are free to rush the puck up (maybe too much... Carlson is getting lost in it).

I'm sure Adam wants the wings in position, partly, because he knows that he cannot change AO, so keeping someone higher gives AO some support when he invariably heads to his favorite hang-out: the blue line.

So in some ways, you get some of BB's system.

Prediction: we win 4-3 tnite... 3 dmen score.

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02-21-2013, 11:52 AM
  #54
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I'm a little behind here. I supported canning Bruce but to an extent he was a scapegoat.

In the end though, the right move was to fire Mcphee in June 2011. And I'd wager a real GM would bring his own coach with him. I don't think Bruce had a future here one way or the other.

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02-21-2013, 12:09 PM
  #55
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Don't mind Oates' system, there's just too much dumb on the team. Starting with the blueline and I have zero faith in George to correct it.

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02-21-2013, 12:22 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
Adam and Dale both... analyzed the team, and both chose basic hockey systems.

That's what you do when you have a patchwork roster: you go back to basics.
from what ive heard attributed to nj devils players about the system is that its not basic. it takes 20 games or more to learn and get right.

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02-21-2013, 12:27 PM
  #57
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Hmmm.......20 games or more? Do the Caps fall in the "more" category and how long will it take if they do?

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02-21-2013, 01:23 PM
  #58
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Seems to be a lot of confusion regarding Oates' system in this thread. Might as well add to it by throwing in what I've observed of his sytem.

*Defensive zone:
Oates is "overloading" the strong side of the ice. For those of you familiar with NHL13 strategies, think of the "Puck Side Pressure" option. All five defenders are on the same side of the ice, and attempt to use numbers to isolate the puck carrier along the boards and disrupt the cycle.

The weakness in this system has been exploited repeatedly by some of our opponents already this season (namely Pittsburgh and New York). There is very little pressure on the points in this system, and if you don't seal off the "low to high" pass, the opponent's blueliners can wreak havoc. D-to-D passes are a nightmare for this defensive scheme, since it inverts the zone and forces the defenders to run around. When the other team isn't afraid to engage their blueliners, they tend to have sustained possessions and force the Caps D to exhaust themeslves. The best remedy to this is getting defensemen who can win the one-on-one battles down low, and force a turnover before the other team has a chance to involve their defensemen in the cycle.


*Forecheck:
This is a little tougher to read, since it seems that the Caps vary their attack depending on the specific situation. When the opponent has a clean possession, it generally looks like a 1-2-2 forecheck, typically with a pretty "active" F1 (though not always). If there's a chance at a turnover, they get more aggressive and send in a second forechecker, while the F3 positions himself to recieve a pass or start the cycle.

*Transition:
It appears as if the preferred method is to gain the zone with possession. Obviously this isn't always going to work, and there are still some dump and chase scenarios. But a majority of our zone entries seem to utilize overlapping/crossing routes down the wing and a quick pass once the puck carrier crosses the blueline. When it's working optimally, a player follows the puck carrier across the line with speed, and has a chance to drive the net with the puck (or at least force the defense back). If a player isn't able to hit the line with speed, the puck carrier drives the defense as far back as he can before dropping it back to the follower at the point. Green and Ribeiro have been easily our best players at gaining the zone while maintaining possession.

*Powerplay:
Oates is using a 1-3-1 powerplay designed to feed one timers to the man in the slot (Brouwer) or at the left circle (Ovechkin). I would like to see this become more "balanced," with the play actually switching sides of the ice more often than it does (practically never). Let Ovie handle the puck more. Even if Nicky and Ribs aren't as credible threats for one timers, it would force the PKers to move a lot more and create the possibility for miscues or exhausting their unit.

*Penalty Kill:
Oates is using the "box" scheme. It was rather passive at the beginning of the season, but has become more assertive lately (almost borders on a "wedge +1").


Last edited by Mystlyfe: 02-21-2013 at 02:20 PM.
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02-21-2013, 01:36 PM
  #59
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Do we know which coaches handle which special teams units?

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02-21-2013, 01:52 PM
  #60
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I'd say nobody coaches the PK by the looks of it.

The Rangers thought their PP was cured after playing the Caps. It didn't look as lively and organized their game.


Last edited by swimmer77: 02-21-2013 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Rangers
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02-21-2013, 02:47 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Seems to be a lot of confusion regarding Oates' system in this thread. Might as well add to it by throwing in what I've observed of his sytem.

*Defensive zone:
Oates is "overloading" the strong side of the ice. For those of you familiar with NHL13 strategies, think of the "Puck Side Pressure" option. All five defenders are on the same side of the ice, and attempt to use numbers to isolate the puck carrier along the boards and disrupt the cycle.

The weakness in this system has been exploited repeatedly by some of our opponents already this season (namely Pittsburgh and New York). There is very little pressure on the points in this system, and if you don't seal off the "low to high" pass, the opponent's blueliners can wreak havoc. D-to-D passes are a nightmare for this defensive scheme, since it inverts the zone and forces the defenders to run around. When the other team isn't afraid to engage their blueliners, they tend to have sustained possessions and force the Caps D to exhaust themeslves. The best remedy to this is getting defensemen who can win the one-on-one battles down low, and force a turnover before the other team has a chance to involve their defensemen in the cycle.


*Forecheck:
This is a little tougher to read, since it seems that the Caps vary their attack depending on the specific situation. When the opponent has a clean possession, it generally looks like a 1-2-2 forecheck, typically with a pretty "active" F1 (though not always). If there's a chance at a turnover, they get more aggressive and send in a second forechecker, while the F3 positions himself to recieve a pass or start the cycle.

*Transition:
It appears as if the preferred method is to gain the zone with possession. Obviously this isn't always going to work, and there are still some dump and chase scenarios. But a majority of our zone entries seem to utilize overlapping/crossing routes down the wing and a quick pass once the puck carrier crosses the blueline. When it's working optimally, a player follows the puck carrier across the line with speed, and has a chance to drive the net with the puck (or at least force the defense back). If a player isn't able to hit the line with speed, the puck carrier drives the defense as far back as he can before dropping it back to the follower at the point. Green and Ribeiro have been easily our best players at gaining the zone while maintaining possession.

*Powerplay:
Oates is using a 1-3-1 powerplay designed to feed one timers to the man in the slot (Brouwer) or at the left circle (Ovechkin). I would like to see this become more "balanced," with the play actually switching sides of the ice more often than it does (practically never). Let Ovie handle the puck more. Even if Nicky and Ribs aren't as credible threats for one timers, it would force the PKers to move a lot more and create the possibility for miscues or exhausting their unit.

*Penalty Kill:
Oates is using the "box" scheme. It was rather passive at the beginning of the season, but has become more assertive lately (almost borders on a "wedge +1").
The thing is, our PP formation is very static, and Ovi is very isolated. Once he gets the puck at the left circle, his only real options are a one-timer or a pass back to Green at the point.

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02-21-2013, 03:06 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin View Post
The thing is, our PP formation is very static, and Ovi is very isolated. Once he gets the puck at the left circle, his only real options are a one-timer or a pass back to Green at the point.
The player behind the net (Backstrom/Ribeiro) would have to move to the other side of the net. Then it becomes a mirror image of the current set-up.

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02-21-2013, 03:57 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
what does that have to do with anything?
Ruff and Trotz have been coaching a large number of new key players every few years. Their situations are not comparable to Boudreau unless you are suggesting the Caps should have shipped out most of its star players which would be ironic coming from you.

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02-21-2013, 11:13 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
from what ive heard attributed to nj devils players about the system is that its not basic. it takes 20 games or more to learn and get right.
I watched closely tonight, but had to do so on TV (wife is going to Canada to speak at a trade conference, and she had to pack).

Still... I was exactly right: it's your basic box system that you'd see on many youth hockey teams. Positional hockey at its basic level.

The D is an adapted version.

AND... for a couple periods, it worked.

Whether we blame it on the refs, or on our own lack of discipline, if we'd have been able to stay outta the penalty box in the 3rd, we could have won.

But here's an honest analysis of Adam's system: with our limited roster, there is very limited creativity going on even-strength.

The 2 things I saw in the 1st period: AO's break in (I hesitate to call it a breakaway), and early in the game, where our forwards tried to change positions by skating around the back of the net, and AO collided with their captain, were the only even-strength, creative plays I saw.

Fortunately, we got a couple of calls, and were able to score twice.

But it's fair to say: if we do NOT get a call and get the man advantage, neither our system, nor our players (save AO) give us much of a chance of scoring.

Now, the question becomes: even though we have limited talent, do we tweak the system to try and nudge some scoring out of it?

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02-22-2013, 08:29 AM
  #65
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Tweak: when Green comes back............

Alzner - Green
Poti / Hamrlik - Carlson
Poti / Hamrlik - Kundratek

For now with what is available at least try it? It's not like this group is setting the world on fire. Yes Erskine has done a decent job but the team is offensively challenged in terms of talent up front. Maybe get a couple of D in the lineup with more offensive acumen. IDK. If nothing else maybe you get a better feel for the right mixture for the future. And I don't think you'll be sacrificing defensively if at all.

Having said all that I'm perfectly confident we will not see what I propose unless it's because of injuries which I certainly hope don't happen.

For next year........IDK. All of the offensive D are on the right (Kundratek, Carlson, Green, Orlov). Unless the Caps plan on moving Orlov to the left it seems one would have to go in order to get offensive D on the left. Or don't the Caps want offense on the left?

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02-22-2013, 08:56 AM
  #66
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Hammer has scored 155 goals. He can bring some offense from the left side. Sure its not much, but its an improvement over the main 3. Poti can bring O but needs to be asked. Tending and D play seems more stable. I think our offense needs some help and Oates O from D scheme makes me also think we can get help from our D.

I assume we don't even have a viable scoring F to recall from Hershey. Sure Ribs is getting the most from our grinders, but our overall skill level seems lacking and I am not yet sold that Oates's system sinking in one day, will change that.

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02-22-2013, 10:29 AM
  #67
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i guess barry trotz is next. i have to admit the following or clear it up. i did say that the information i have heard is that the caps system takes a while to settle in. nj was 12-12 and something before they started to get going. kovalchuk only had 12 pts in his first 17 games in this system and only 3 goals. that translates to where ovechkin seems to be.

that said, oates seems to show no desperation to win. just play right. playing well and earning the first pick in the draft is complete failure. its almost like he is one of those, all the kids should get a trophy, parents.

i dont like his management/motivational style of coaching at all.

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02-22-2013, 11:08 AM
  #68
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its almost like he is one of those, all the kids should get a trophy, parents.
I really don't think that's appropriate.

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02-22-2013, 11:35 AM
  #69
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no???

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02-22-2013, 11:38 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i dont like his management/motivational style of coaching at all.
Agreed. They've been flat all year long with the exception of a few do-or-die sort of intrinsic motivation games against the FL teams. His talk about the process seems like CYA since they're not really making any apparent progress in areas within their game. Outside of the power play their work rate and execution levels aren't close to where they need to be in any regard. The PP has been the one consistent strength but it's been pretty well negated by lingering issues in other areas.

@JapersRink: The #Caps had a worse ES SOG differential last night (-18) than they ever had under Dale Hunter. Ditto last two games, total (-28).

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02-22-2013, 12:19 PM
  #71
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Agreed. They've been flat all year long with the exception of a few do-or-die sort of intrinsic motivation games against the FL teams. His talk about the process seems like CYA since they're not really making any apparent progress in areas within their game. Outside of the power play their work rate and execution levels aren't close to where they need to be in any regard. The PP has been the one consistent strength but it's been pretty well negated by lingering issues in other areas.

@JapersRink: The #Caps had a worse ES SOG differential last night (-18) than they ever had under Dale Hunter. Ditto last two games, total (-28).
Okay.......I would not have thought that, really by the way Oatsie talks. And it's a disappointing stat. LOL

So the "correct" way to play is to be outshot, outscored and finish in the cellar? Who'd a thunk it.

Opening night against Tampa Bay the ES dif. was (-2). LOL They were still in Hunter mode I guess.

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02-22-2013, 12:24 PM
  #72
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They were outshot, by the chances were actually pretty even by the end of the second period (got dominated in the first, came roaring back in the second). They just got so little of it on net. It was really odd.

Devils pulled away in the 3rd, though.

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02-22-2013, 12:51 PM
  #73
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I'm bound to be flamed for this, but I actually like a lot of what I'm seeing from this Oates coached team, at least from a system standpoint. Much of what is ailing the Caps are boneheaded plays, really sloppy fundamentals, and a talent deficiency (see the McPhee thread). As I asked last night, is there a team in the league that has as many pucks bouncing over their sticks? We are really struggling with accurate passes and controlling pucks. You can see the potential for plays to develop but then they die with a pass one foot too far in front or a pass bouncing off a stick.

Like others, I'm completely shocked that McPhee let Semin go the same year he brings Ribiero. Knowing that the young draftees are at least a couple seasons away, who did he expect to fill that role? WIth Semin on board, plus a healthy Orlov, Laich, and Green, this team would have been playoff caliber again.

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02-22-2013, 02:35 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
Agreed. They've been flat all year long with the exception of a few do-or-die sort of intrinsic motivation games against the FL teams. His talk about the process seems like CYA since they're not really making any apparent progress in areas within their game. Outside of the power play their work rate and execution levels aren't close to where they need to be in any regard. The PP has been the one consistent strength but it's been pretty well negated by lingering issues in other areas.

@JapersRink: The #Caps had a worse ES SOG differential last night (-18) than they ever had under Dale Hunter. Ditto last two games, total (-28).

And the fire they got in that "false hope" matchup with the Cats was because of a players-only meeting, according to Ward.

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02-22-2013, 02:40 PM
  #75
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I'm bound to be flamed for this, but I actually like a lot of what I'm seeing from this Oates coached team, at least from a system standpoint. Much of what is ailing the Caps are boneheaded plays, really sloppy fundamentals, and a talent deficiency (see the McPhee thread). As I asked last night, is there a team in the league that has as many pucks bouncing over their sticks? We are really struggling with accurate passes and controlling pucks. You can see the potential for plays to develop but then they die with a pass one foot too far in front or a pass bouncing off a stick.

Like others, I'm completely shocked that McPhee let Semin go the same year he brings Ribiero. Knowing that the young draftees are at least a couple seasons away, who did he expect to fill that role? WIth Semin on board, plus a healthy Orlov, Laich, and Green, this team would have been playoff caliber again.

I'm seeing more of the BB era puck movement and Oates and Co. seem to have FINALLY corrected the main culprit from the MTL series: the power play.

But I'm also seeing one of the things that led to the downfall of that team via the lost knack for scoring, and that's the tendency to get "too cute". Before BB changed the focus to defense to protect the goalies (again with GMGM failing to stock the defensemen) after that 8 game losing streak, the Caps were believing their own press and falling into patterns, which included going for the perfect "slam dunk" open net goal way too much.

That meant too many passes or moves instead of taking shots in the high percentage areas. You still see this sometimes, but other times they'll just fling it from everywhere. I think Oates is encouraging them to open it up offensively, but when they do the old habits pop up and they overpass or overdeke.

Before that, with Hanlon, it was "keep everything to the side" with no goal in mind other than just freezing the puck. BB got them going to the middle and looking to shoot, but didn't fix anything out of balance and coasted on their natural talent.

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