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Old
02-21-2013, 03:03 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by b in vancouver View Post
I'm the other way - I regard Alfie higher than I did Kaberle. Just the difference in media saturation between Ottawa and Toronto. Back 9 doesn't matter to me. Alfie has captained extremely good teams that have come close while Kaberle played on mediocre teams. I like the idea of Kaberle setting up Chara for bombs from the point but adding Alfredsson to the top 9 is on a much different level for me.

As far as trade value - I would hope and expect that Chiarelli pays a proper price. To get a player like Alfredsson or Iginla you give the other team something to hang their hats on. You don't try to under-cut them. It's not always about maximizing assets.

Alfie could say - 'I want a chance at the Cup and I will only play in Boston if you trade me.' and I would still expect Chia to pony up. - and if that turns into Spooner, Khokholachev, Subban, Knight, Caron, Camara, a 1st - whatever - it should and will be a decent return for Ottawa.

I would love it if the Bruins added Alfredsson, Iginla or Smyth to their team this year and made a push for another Cup and as much as I want to see what Khokholachev, Spooner, Subban and Camara can turn into (I know you like Knight) I don't value any of them higher than the chance at another Cup that any of those players would add.

Come on - you remember the late 80's early 90's when the B's were one player away and wouldn't get him. I'd take runs for the next 5 years and burn through it all if you had to. I want another Cup run.
don't agree with you at all but hey thats what makes the world go round

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02-21-2013, 03:56 PM
  #202
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I'd take either and not worry one iota about Spooner or anyone else not on the roster. These first rounders have a 50% chance of a 500 game NHL career and even less of a chance of being a core player during their career.

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02-21-2013, 06:37 PM
  #203
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don't agree with you at all but hey thats what makes the world go round
I'm always worried that if I stop being right all the time the world might stop.

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02-21-2013, 06:48 PM
  #204
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I'd take either and not worry one iota about Spooner or anyone else not on the roster. These first rounders have a 50% chance of a 500 game NHL career and even less of a chance of being a core player during their career.
The thing about that is, you're looking from the minute they get drafted. Once they've progressed 3 seasons from their draft, my guess is that you know enough about them that they're less of a crapshoot. In Spooner's case, he's a 20 year old who has put up nearly a PPG in the AHL.

So Spooner would represent a player I wouldn't be interested in giving up for a rental, unless that rental was an impact player in his prime that we could potentially get to stick around. Picks and prospects below him and Khoklachev on the ladder? I'd be more open to that.

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02-21-2013, 06:53 PM
  #205
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http://nhl.si.com/2013/02/21/nhl-tra...2_a9&eref=sihp

More smoke

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Old
02-21-2013, 06:54 PM
  #206
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You guys are not getting our captain! :p

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02-21-2013, 06:57 PM
  #207
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You guys are not getting our captain! :p
Yeah, well we said the same to Avs fans about Ray Bourque.

So, who knows.

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02-21-2013, 07:11 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by b in vancouver View Post
I'm always worried that if I stop being right all the time the world might stop.
when I was a kid the Bruins traded my neighbor who's kid my sister baby sat for and it pissed me off. I have hated the top prospects for rental or similar crap ever since.

The day the Red Sox traded Jeff Bagwell for Lary Anderson I was so pissed when I read it atbreakffast break I wanted to leave work and drive to Fenway and find Lou Gorman. I ran into Globes Bob Ryan years later at an event in Reading, and brought it up, and me and him ended up talking for about an hour over everything from the too many men on the ice, to the 86 series to all the early Patriots nonsense- but it started with bad trades (I'm still seething over Cecil Cooper to the Brewers for a washed up George Scott)

In both cases the players traded were top 5 prospects- Bagwell at the time was playing second in New Briton but was the current overall top prospect in the recent Baseball America issue.

I'll trade what I consider the top 5 if its part of a package for OEL, Carlson, Bobby Ryan, Kulikov, etc,,,,I'll bundle with the best but no bleeping rental.

You BUNDLE the Lashoffs, Colbornes, Hamills etc,,,,hate to say it but Caron is there now. The other 5 I dont deal- as much as I like Knight, he has to play so I'd consider him in limbo anyways, and he just turned 21 a month ago so not like he's near the end....Koko- no way, he has top 6 projection, Spooner had a Western Conference scout we saw at Providence one game drooling between periods over Spooner- I'd say he wasnt the only one. I hear Chia can get a little jiggy himself watching him. Dom sees OHL games every week and is raving at Subban.

These guys all project as top 6 and make basically zero in a cap world.

The Bruins did it right with Kaberle even if they overpaid, but their were many red flags on Colborne. Heck, I go to games with friends who may not be getting paid to scout but they know as much as anyone imo- and we ALL looked at Big Joe and said 'uh-oh;,,,,

I went back a few days ago and looked at the mindset of the Bruins fans at the trading deadline the year they won the cup- almost every poster wanted to dump Ryder for someone- mostly a stiff. Svatos was available and there were multiple posters saying dump Ryder and go with this guy....the deals looking back now were hilarious and with the hindsight we have now by and large the likely recipe for no Cup.

Bruins fan after Bruins fan was dumping half the team that won the Cup for a bunch of old former stars or stat ****** with less characters than Disney on strike


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Old
02-21-2013, 07:15 PM
  #209
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The thing about that is, you're looking from the minute they get drafted. Once they've progressed 3 seasons from their draft, my guess is that you know enough about them that they're less of a crapshoot. In Spooner's case, he's a 20 year old who has put up nearly a PPG in the AHL.

So Spooner would represent a player I wouldn't be interested in giving up for a rental, unless that rental was an impact player in his prime that we could potentially get to stick around. Picks and prospects below him and Khoklachev on the ladder? I'd be more open to that.
True enough,

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02-21-2013, 07:18 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
You guys are not getting our captain! :p
probably not, I'd think if the Leafs are in it, he'd be the perfect addition for them (I can see Colborne, the Leafs first, and conditional second if the Leafs make the finals)

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02-21-2013, 07:20 PM
  #211
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True enough,
hey, did you ever get another dog? I remember your post and was so bummed for you, I hope so, I'm sure there is one lucky dog if you did

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02-21-2013, 07:21 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
when I was a kid the Bruins traded my neighbor who's kid my sister baby sat for and it pissed me off. I have hated the top prospects for rental or similar crap ever since.

The day the Red Sox traded Jeff Bagwell for Lary Anderson I was so pissed when I read it atbreakffast break I wanted to leave work and drive to Fenway and find Lou Gorman. I ran into Globes Bob Ryan years later at an event in Reading, and brought it up, and me and him ended up talking for about an hour over everything from the too many men on the ice, to the 86 series to all the early Patriots nonsense- but it started with bad trades (I'm still seething over Cecil Cooper to the Brewers for a washed up George Scott)

In both cases the players traded were top 5 prospects- Bagwell at the time was playing second in New Briton but was the current overall top prospect in the recent Baseball America issue.

I'll trade what I consider the top 5 if its part of a package for OEL, Carlson, Bobby Ryan, Kulikov, etc,,,,I'll bundle with the best but no bleeping rental.

You BUNDLE the Lashoffs, Colbornes, Hamills etc,,,,hate to say it but Caron is there now. The other 5 I dont deal- as much as I like Knight, he has to play so I'd consider him in limbo anyways, and he just turned 21 a month ago so not like he's near the end....Koko- no way, he has top 6 projection, Spooner had a Western Conference scout we saw at Providence one game drooling between periods over Spooner- I'd say he wasnt the only one. I hear Chia can get a little jiggy himself watching him. Dom sees OHL games every week and is raving at Subban.

These guys all project as top 6 and make basically zero in a cap world.

The Bruins did it right with Kaberle even if they overpaid, but their were many red flags on Colborne. Heck, I go to games with friends who may not be getting paid to scout but they know as much as anyone imo- and we ALL looked at Big Joe and said 'uh-oh;,,,,

I went back a few days ago and looked at the mindset of the Bruins fans at the trading deadline the year they won the cup- almost every poster wanted to dump Ryder for someone- mostly a stiff. Svatos was available and there were multiple posters saying dump Ryder and go with this guy....the deals looking back now were hilarious and with the hindsight we have now by and large the likely recipe for no Cup.

Bruins fan after Bruins fan was dumping half the team that won the Cup for a bunch of old former stars or stat ****** with less characters than Disney on strike
If Spooner's top 6 talent,is that on the Bruins? Whose spot? When? It would be Horton's I guess as the rest are 26 or younger and here for awhile.

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02-21-2013, 07:29 PM
  #213
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Assuming the Bruins stay relatively healthy (knock cheap desk), having Alfie in the lineup would give opposing coaches fits trying to get the d-men match ups they want.

Having him out there against the 3rd pairing could lead to a ton of chances.

Doesn't he also log a lot of PK time?

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02-21-2013, 07:29 PM
  #214
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If the Bruins aren’t comfortable with Anton Khudobin as their backup heading into the postseason, Theodore might make sense in Boston.



No more Ex-Habs please.

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02-21-2013, 07:43 PM
  #215
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DKH: I understand your view and agree for the most part.

Question(s) for you:

What current prospects would you be willing to part with in a deal for Alfy? Is the answer different for Iginla?

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02-21-2013, 09:51 PM
  #216
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Anderson injury just improved our chances at Alfie, BIG TIME

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Old
02-21-2013, 11:04 PM
  #217
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If the Bruins aren’t comfortable with Anton Khudobin as their backup heading into the postseason, Theodore might make sense in Boston.



No more Ex-Habs please.
I don't think the Bruins could be much more comfortable with a backup than they currently do with Khudobin. He's been really good when he has played.

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02-21-2013, 11:10 PM
  #218
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Don't see us landing alfreddson but I'd jump for joy if we did!

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:17 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
when I was a kid the Bruins traded my neighbor who's kid my sister baby sat for and it pissed me off. I have hated the top prospects for rental or similar crap ever since.

The day the Red Sox traded Jeff Bagwell for Lary Anderson I was so pissed when I read it atbreakffast break I wanted to leave work and drive to Fenway and find Lou Gorman. I ran into Globes Bob Ryan years later at an event in Reading, and brought it up, and me and him ended up talking for about an hour over everything from the too many men on the ice, to the 86 series to all the early Patriots nonsense- but it started with bad trades (I'm still seething over Cecil Cooper to the Brewers for a washed up George Scott)

In both cases the players traded were top 5 prospects- Bagwell at the time was playing second in New Briton but was the current overall top prospect in the recent Baseball America issue.

I'll trade what I consider the top 5 if its part of a package for OEL, Carlson, Bobby Ryan, Kulikov, etc,,,,I'll bundle with the best but no bleeping rental.

You BUNDLE the Lashoffs, Colbornes, Hamills etc,,,,hate to say it but Caron is there now. The other 5 I dont deal- as much as I like Knight, he has to play so I'd consider him in limbo anyways, and he just turned 21 a month ago so not like he's near the end....Koko- no way, he has top 6 projection, Spooner had a Western Conference scout we saw at Providence one game drooling between periods over Spooner- I'd say he wasnt the only one. I hear Chia can get a little jiggy himself watching him. Dom sees OHL games every week and is raving at Subban.

These guys all project as top 6 and make basically zero in a cap world.

The Bruins did it right with Kaberle even if they overpaid, but their were many red flags on Colborne. Heck, I go to games with friends who may not be getting paid to scout but they know as much as anyone imo- and we ALL looked at Big Joe and said 'uh-oh;,,,,

I went back a few days ago and looked at the mindset of the Bruins fans at the trading deadline the year they won the cup- almost every poster wanted to dump Ryder for someone- mostly a stiff. Svatos was available and there were multiple posters saying dump Ryder and go with this guy....the deals looking back now were hilarious and with the hindsight we have now by and large the likely recipe for no Cup.

Bruins fan after Bruins fan was dumping half the team that won the Cup for a bunch of old former stars or stat ****** with less characters than Disney on strike
I think about 4 or 5 years ago we had the same conversation about Kalus being traded for Fernandez. Prospects are always fine but unless they are truly the blue chip ones I don't find them untouchable. I'll take another Cup run over watching the possible development of someone's favourite prospect any day of the week. These kids could become superstars, the Bruins could be out in the 1st round with Alfie on the roster, and I still wouldn't think it was a bad trade if that's what it took.

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02-22-2013, 08:19 AM
  #220
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hey, did you ever get another dog? I remember your post and was so bummed for you, I hope so, I'm sure there is one lucky dog if you did
Yes got another German Shepherd from The Monks of New Skete,love having 2.

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02-22-2013, 12:16 PM
  #221
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I think about 4 or 5 years ago we had the same conversation about Kalus being traded for Fernandez. Prospects are always fine but unless they are truly the blue chip ones I don't find them untouchable. I'll take another Cup run over watching the possible development of someone's favourite prospect any day of the week. These kids could become superstars, the Bruins could be out in the 1st round with Alfie on the roster, and I still wouldn't think it was a bad trade if that's what it took.
I meant that nicer than it sounded. - Damn lack of tone in typing. I'll never get used to it. And don't understand what emoticons are.
Loved the 'less character than Disney on strike' line.

For me it boils down to Alfie, Iggy or Smyth as far as forwards go. Not 1st liners anymore. Pure rentals. 3rd line with Kelly and Peverley. Allowing Boston to roll line after line of attacking offence and players that can be moved up in case of injuries. Players who haven't won the Cup and are - possibly - hungry. Like Horton's playoff run after never being in the playoffs in his career. Or with a bit of Recchi's leadership abilities. It also keeps one of these players off the roster of the few other favourites in the East. If we watch Pittsburg add Iginla and Montreal add Alfredsson it's going to be tough sledding, especially if any of the B's forwards get injured for any serious amount.

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02-22-2013, 12:20 PM
  #222
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The thing about that is, you're looking from the minute they get drafted. Once they've progressed 3 seasons from their draft, my guess is that you know enough about them that they're less of a crapshoot. In Spooner's case, he's a 20 year old who has put up nearly a PPG in the AHL.

So Spooner would represent a player I wouldn't be interested in giving up for a rental, unless that rental was an impact player in his prime that we could potentially get to stick around. Picks and prospects below him and Khoklachev on the ladder? I'd be more open to that.
Good pts

I`ll wager Spoons is a full time NHL player next year, and never see`s the AHL again

I wouldn`t move Knight either, not until the organization has had the chance to see him bring his full healthy game and the fact that he brings not one bit of value at this point without a body of work in the AHL under his belt. I think Koko/Caron/Krug could be used in trades though (I am a big Caron guy but..)

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Old
02-22-2013, 01:37 PM
  #223
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Yes got another German Shepherd from The Monks of New Skete,love having 2.
Nice! I love their books. The best I've read for training.

I've got a 10-month old GSD. She's got a ton of energy, but is smart as a whip and trainable as heck.

How old was your pup when you got him/her, and what kind of training had she already been through?

Sorry for the off-topic post...

I pretty much agree with DKH's long post. Not a big fan of rentals, but history is riddled with trades of prospects that never pan out.

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02-22-2013, 01:45 PM
  #224
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Good pts

I`ll wager Spoons is a full time NHL player next year, and never see`s the AHL again

I wouldn`t move Knight either, not until the organization has had the chance to see him bring his full healthy game and the fact that he brings not one bit of value at this point without a body of work in the AHL under his belt. I think Koko/Caron/Krug could be used in trades though (I am a big Caron guy but..)
They're in an interesting spot in terms of trading this deadline. In my mind you can almost tier their prospects:

Guys whose value is above any rental they could get their hands on: Spooner, Koko

Guys whose injuries have submarined their value and you'd be selling low on them:
Caron, Knight, and to an extent Krug

Guys whose position often makes them less valuable in trade:
Subban

So really what does that leave you? Picks, sure. How many players worth bringing in with be had for only picks or picks plus one of the guys in the "next" 4. Really I think they need to get Caron and Krug into the lineup in March. If you can answer questions or develop value internally that's the way to go.

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02-22-2013, 01:56 PM
  #225
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When its closer to the trade line and if Ottawa is pretty much out of it, and if Alfie decides he wants one last shot at the cup, then our late 1st rounder should do it. I'm sure no one in the Sen's organization will stand in Alfie's way to do what he wants at that point. He earned his own fate after being a loyal soldier for so long. Wont matter at all that Boston and Ottawa are in the same division in this case. A lot of "ifs", but I like our chances if Alfie decides to go Bourque.

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