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Kings will be 28th in THN Future Watch

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Old
02-22-2013, 09:18 AM
  #26
kingsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I agree but the funny thing is that we do have a couple of better than average top 6 talented kids down on the farm who are being severely underrated by some of the pundits. We will once again prove them wrong. Lots of them thought that VV was a reach and that he was undersized for the daily rigors of being an everyday NHL dman.

Vey is better than any of the kids playing in TO up the middle today and they have been terrible for years.
TT is an up and coming first line RW who is underrated and Pearson Shore Kozun Andy Andy Kitsyn to name a few all look like NHL talent who could be good to pretty good too.
Hey TG,

I'd love to hear who you think is our top 10 prospects.

We know they have Toffoli listed as our top prospect (not much to argue with there), I'll take a stab at who are the rest. here's my top 10:

1. Tyler Toffoli
2. Tanner Pearson
3. Derek Forbort
4. Kevin Gravel
5. Christopher Gibson
6. Michael Mersch
7. Linden Vey
8. Nick Shore
9. Alex Roach
10. Nic Dowd

A lot can change in the bottom there, as there is legit reasoning for any of Kozun, Andreoff, Lowry, Schumacher, Prohorkin, Miller, Hyka, Ladue and Deslauriers to be placed on that list.

I know you'll say "and what about Kitsyn?" and I agree, he should be considered as well, however given his lack of legit competition the past few seasons, it's hard to place him on our top 10. Next year will be a much better test for him.

Overall, I think we have a pretty solid top 10 for what I listed there, but we do lack a blue chipper, someone with a high ceiling, outside of Toffoli and even he I'd question if he has a truly high end, blue chipper caliber ceiling. He's got the potential to be good, really good, but not great.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redcard View Post
That was my initial thought, the Stanley Cup champs should have the worst prospect pool in the league....so whoever is below that must be doing everything wrong.
Typically the defending Cup champs don't have the lowest ranked pool on these lists. they are often in the lower half/two-thirds, but not the very bottom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
Which one of these is not like the other....

Give you a hint. It's Kitsyn.

And yeah, we absolutely deserve it. I fully expect Dean to draft a goalie this draft. It'll probably be a later round pick but he'll grab one. I'd really like to see Dean for once go for some boom or bust picks - and there's ONE guy I want Dean to draft. One. Anton Slepyshev. Do it. DO IT!
I agree with you that we will select a goalie, something I've been saying for a while actually. I expect we'll grab someone between rounds 3-5, similar to Berube. With Berube coming up to Manchester next year most likely and Gibson heading to the ECHL, the Kings will have room for a goalie in the pipeline, someone who'll need a few years in the junior ranks who'll be pro ready in two years.

As for going off the board, I'm really surprised no one grabbed Slepyshev, but I'd wager heavily that DL knew he wouldn't come to the NHL, or at least to LA, as he's never shied away from Russians before, such as Loki, Voynov, Kitsyn and Prohorkin. I would like to see us take a stab at another Toffoli or Vey in the middle rounds again this year.

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02-22-2013, 11:13 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Hey TG,

I'd love to hear who you think is our top 10 prospects.

We know they have Toffoli listed as our top prospect (not much to argue with there), I'll take a stab at who are the rest. here's my top 10:

1. Tyler Toffoli
2. Tanner Pearson
3. Derek Forbort
4. Kevin Gravel
5. Christopher Gibson
6. Michael Mersch
7. Linden Vey
8. Nick Shore
9. Alex Roach
10. Nic Dowd

A lot can change in the bottom there, as there is legit reasoning for any of Kozun, Andreoff, Lowry, Schumacher, Prohorkin, Miller, Hyka, Ladue and Deslauriers to be placed on that list.

I know you'll say "and what about Kitsyn?" and I agree, he should be considered as well, however given his lack of legit competition the past few seasons, it's hard to place him on our top 10. Next year will be a much better test for him.

Overall, I think we have a pretty solid top 10 for what I listed there, but we do lack a blue chipper, someone with a high ceiling, outside of Toffoli and even he I'd question if he has a truly high end, blue chipper caliber ceiling. He's got the potential to be good, really good, but not great.

I am really bad at this part of evaluating for the most part. It is due to the different positions and styles/types of play that each of these kids bring to the table. The overall aspect of ranking kids is tough for me because while I know that TT has exceptional skills so does Gibson but the two are so totally different and at such different places of their careers that I struggle at knowing where they should be ranked overall in comparison to each other.

Keeping that in mind I would probably go.......

1. Tyler Toffoli
2. Linden Vey
3. Tanner Pearson
4. Derek Forbort
5. Kevin Gravel
6. Nick Shore
7. Christopher Gibson
8. Brandon Kozun
9. Nik Deslauriers
10. Andy Andy

I left Kitsyn off the list. He wants to play in the NHL and we are going to get our chance to see if/how ready he is soon enough but until he gets back over here I left him off.

I watched Dowd and Mersch during my three weeks in ND (Minot ND gets stupid cold -48 while I was there) both but I still don't have a feel on where they will end up just yet. Dowd is slick and looks like a big player at times. He has the skills and the hands to be solid but there is something that just seems to be missing. Chalk it up to where he is on the developmental curve for now I guess. I want to see him in camp and then up against pro competition before I know where he will end up. At this point I see him as a borderline NHLer.

Mersch is big enough but at times plays a smaller mans game. He can be a real difference maker and isn't afraid of going into the corners but then seems to wander/be less determined in front of the net. He skates pretty well but then finds himself behind the play at times. If he continues developing into the player he could become then he has the potential to be a top 6nhler. Id say 50/50 at this point though so I don't know.

I put Kozun on the list because the kid is just that good. He hits digs scores grinds and does it all while being pretty solid in every zone. If he were two inches taller he would be on the Kings today. I think he has 3rd line grinder with second line spot duty winger written all over him.

Andy A is a solid bottom 6er who should be able to bring his game to the next level and then surprise a few people with his overall game when he does. I put him on the list because he is more of a lock to get some time in the NHL then a few of our other kids but I don't know when.

We overlook NDes but he is doing very good and developing the way most D prospects do and have forever, slowly (but you know that) but steadily and solid. He is in his second season and turned a corner on his overall play. I still see second pairing two way stay at home type of Dman in the NHL for him and in fact think he has potential to become a fixture for us in time. One of those guys you hang onto.

I love Gravel's game but mostly because he is just so solid at everything. 3rd pairing dman who is just too good at his job for you to want to try and get him to do more even though he can. Hard nosed stay at home NHLer who can skate well enough and has a nice pass. Solid all arounder.

I think so highly of Shore for his level of compete. He just wants it more than his competition and most nights that is what makes him the best player on the ice. It is also why he plays with nagging little injuries most of the time too which slows down his development and keeps him from looking like an elite talent.

He needs to get to MCH and start what I think will be a 2-3year process of developing how to know when to turn it on and when turning it on takes him out of the game. He is also going to take a couple of pro seasons to develop his hands when it comes to goal scoring. He scores allot of goals off of rebounds and while he does have a few moves they aren't going to help him at the next level.

I think Shore is going to be our Captain one day but he is going to take a little time getting there.

Pearson could become a really good 2nd line utility type. He is ready to work his way onto the team along with TT next season.

I like several of our other prospects and think that my list is subjective at best from the 6 spot down. I see TT and Vey as potentially elite talents in the NHL and Forbort is likely to become a very good 2nd pairing two way D who makes it more due to his size and skating than his skill but also believe that Roach Gravel and Des will all also make it to the NHL and could end up being as highly thought of as time goes on.

My forte is having an eye (actually a system) for assessing a prospects NHL potential and role they should play once they get there more than having any real clue as to how they rank in consideration to each other but that is how I see things today.


Last edited by etherialone: 02-22-2013 at 11:20 AM.
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Old
02-22-2013, 01:14 PM
  #28
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Thanks TG, always great to have your insight.

I agree with your assessments on both Dowd and Mersch, pretty much spot on. I think you may actually think Dowd will be more of an offensive threat than even I do, and I see him more as 4th liner with some upside (Scott Parse perhaps?) to do better in the right situation. Mersch I think could be a big time goalscorer or not get above the AHL level, he's at a fork in the road in terms of development and it will be interesting to see which way he goes. I hate judging a guy by his stats, but he would be a guy whose numbers you would expect to grow if his game is growing as well.

Kozun, I think we differ on. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see him as a 3rd line type, not on the Kings anyways. That said, he could develop into a Chad Larose type, capable of chipping in a decent amount of points and playing in several situations, a jack-of-all-trades but not reat at any sort of player.

I almost had Andy Andy on my list, but I don't think he has the ceiling that some of the others do, like Dowd and Mersch. He's likely more of a surefire pro as you said, especially in the current system, but I also wonder if that will work against him as he has several bigger bodies to work past already, namely King and Nolan. He could get to be redundant.

Deslauriers I've never been really high on. I admit he has some skill, but I don't see it panning out at the HL level above maybe a 3rd pairing type. I just wonder if his hockey smarts are there and I tend to have a bias against Q developed defensemen.

You pretty much said it all about Gravel. I'd even take it a step higher and wonder if he can't also develop an offensive game of sorts. He'll never be Drew Doughty, but the kids IQ is off the charts and he just seems to get better and better each week. He's always learning and growing as a player and I honestly don't know what the ceiling is for him, as he seems to just finds ways to grow. I see a cross between Willie Mitchell and Rob Scuderi, but as I said, possibly with some upside offensively. Eric Brewer maybe is a decent comparible, just a bit more aggressive?

Shore, I see as Jarrett Stoll in him honestly. I know that will ruffle some feathers around here, but honestly Stoll is a good player with leadership capablities and a two-way game, just as you described TG. Now, that two-way game has vacated him recently, but traditionally he's been a 20 goal, 45 point player who can wear a letter and play in all situations, and I see the same in Shore. I could see him being our captain someday as well. He's just a smart, heady, solid player, very much the forward version of Gravel with more offensive talent.

Pearson, I can see Justin Williams in him. Justin's just a bit slighter and quicker, but Pearson's more gritty. But I see Pearson as a 20-25 goal, 50-60 point 2nd line winger. Can't complain about that.

As for Vey, I'm eager to watch him play. I haven't seen him in a while, and clearly you hold him in more praise than I do. I don't share your optomism, but I'd wager you've seen him a lot more the past two years than I have, and players can really transform at the pro level when they don't really stand out as a junior.

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02-22-2013, 01:50 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Thanks TG, always great to have your insight.

I agree with your assessments on both Dowd and Mersch, pretty much spot on. I think you may actually think Dowd will be more of an offensive threat than even I do, and I see him more as 4th liner with some upside (Scott Parse perhaps?) to do better in the right situation. Mersch I think could be a big time goalscorer or not get above the AHL level, he's at a fork in the road in terms of development and it will be interesting to see which way he goes. I hate judging a guy by his stats, but he would be a guy whose numbers you would expect to grow if his game is growing as well.

Kozun, I think we differ on. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see him as a 3rd line type, not on the Kings anyways. That said, he could develop into a Chad Larose type, capable of chipping in a decent amount of points and playing in several situations, a jack-of-all-trades but not reat at any sort of player.

I almost had Andy Andy on my list, but I don't think he has the ceiling that some of the others do, like Dowd and Mersch. He's likely more of a surefire pro as you said, especially in the current system, but I also wonder if that will work against him as he has several bigger bodies to work past already, namely King and Nolan. He could get to be redundant.

Deslauriers I've never been really high on. I admit he has some skill, but I don't see it panning out at the HL level above maybe a 3rd pairing type. I just wonder if his hockey smarts are there and I tend to have a bias against Q developed defensemen.

You pretty much said it all about Gravel. I'd even take it a step higher and wonder if he can't also develop an offensive game of sorts. He'll never be Drew Doughty, but the kids IQ is off the charts and he just seems to get better and better each week. He's always learning and growing as a player and I honestly don't know what the ceiling is for him, as he seems to just finds ways to grow. I see a cross between Willie Mitchell and Rob Scuderi, but as I said, possibly with some upside offensively. Eric Brewer maybe is a decent comparible, just a bit more aggressive?

Shore, I see as Jarrett Stoll in him honestly. I know that will ruffle some feathers around here, but honestly Stoll is a good player with leadership capablities and a two-way game, just as you described TG. Now, that two-way game has vacated him recently, but traditionally he's been a 20 goal, 45 point player who can wear a letter and play in all situations, and I see the same in Shore. I could see him being our captain someday as well. He's just a smart, heady, solid player, very much the forward version of Gravel with more offensive talent.

Pearson, I can see Justin Williams in him. Justin's just a bit slighter and quicker, but Pearson's more gritty. But I see Pearson as a 20-25 goal, 50-60 point 2nd line winger. Can't complain about that.

As for Vey, I'm eager to watch him play. I haven't seen him in a while, and clearly you hold him in more praise than I do. I don't share your optomism, but I'd wager you've seen him a lot more the past two years than I have, and players can really transform at the pro level when they don't really stand out as a junior.

I think we are really close on all of our assessments.

I am usually skeptical of Qdmen as well but I am that high on Des still. I hope I am right this time.

Andy might just be redundant in our system. If he gets his shot with us he will be more the sandpaper type of kid then either Nolan or King but I agree that he could do so on another team.

I actually think that you are close to dead on in comparing Kozun to La Rose, with a bit more O upside. I am sturggling to see him make it as a King but I do believe in his talents and think that he would be a really good agitator/skill kid for us.

Here is what I love about Gravel that gets missed by most of us (including me at times). I was watching him play against Forbort a couple of weeks ago. I sat at ice level right above the ND bench in between the two teams. I could hear most of everything that was being said and both Forbort and Gravel do allot of bench coaching.

The difference between the two is that Gravel is dead on with what he is saying and Forbort does allot of "pick it up boys" type of encouraging.

That said next time you watch Gravel play watch what he does when he is away from the play. He reminds me of Scott Stevens in the way that he moves around ahead of where the play is going to be. He stays in position but he moves into where he believes passing lanes will develop or where the puck is going to be in a second or two.

I really like KG's game and hope that you are right in thinking he could develop some O to his game. He absolutely has the skills. KG compared to Scuds is really close.

I have been blown away by Vey from bantam and think that I could be a bit strong on where he will develop. Vey has that spark to his game when he is on that makes him appear as a different type of player then his peers. Some of it is talent related and some of it is the way he carries himself. He plays with great confidence when he is on and just makes it all look so easy.

He is the kind of player that I always would target to lay out back in the day but even then he is one of the better of those too.

I would say when reading my assessment of Vey that its a good idea to have a little caution. You could be closer to right than wrong.

I am still so high on Kitsyn. I have seen most of his play (via tape) this season and he is just getting the red anus treatment over there. The question is, can he overcome the past two seasons of being sat and messed with over waaaaay inferior talent and get it going again in the AHL.

If so we have a Franzen (mule) jr type of player in MK.

If not he will be a tragic waste. Good kid Good player.

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02-22-2013, 02:00 PM
  #30
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I hope Kitsyn will get his chance here next year as well. Didn't have him pegged as a Mule type though, so I really hope you are correct in that regard. I felt he had the offensive upside of a Handzus (post-knee injury) or Holmstrom, a 15 goal, 35 point guy most seasons who'll be willing to go to the greasy areas and get dirty digging for pucks, head to the crease, jam in rebounds, etc. It's why I think his game is way more suited for NA than Mother Russia, and that likely factors into not getting much playing time as well.

Dwight King from last years playoffs for another comparible. Kitsyn's just so strong on his skates and can take a beating, I just love his compete level. You don't see that style very often from Russia.

The kid we seen in the 2011 WJC is what I'm expecting.

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02-22-2013, 03:34 PM
  #31
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I got the Hockey News digitally and I can tell you the Top 10 are...

Toffoli
Forbort
Pearson
Gravel
Muzzin
Shore
Vey
Andreoff
Jones
Collin Miller

Only Vancouver and San Jose are rated lower then the Kings

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02-22-2013, 03:59 PM
  #32
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Miller over Prokhorkin? Yeah... o ****ing kay. Although Gravel being that high is about right. Kid is unreal. Can't wait for him to turn pro. Might even get his jersey when he does.

Also, perusing HF's list of Kings prospects made me realize we're thin as hell at centers in the pipeline (in the sense that most of them are already pro's). We could see a center heavy draft the way we saw a LW heavy draft 2 years ago. We also need RWers as well so those two positions will probably be addressed this draft.


Last edited by CNS: 02-22-2013 at 04:07 PM.
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02-22-2013, 04:20 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
Miller over Prokhorkin? Yeah... o ****ing kay. Although Gravel being that high is about right. Kid is unreal. Can't wait for him to turn pro. Might even get his jersey when he does.

Also, perusing HF's list of Kings prospects made me realize we're thin as hell at centers in the pipeline (in the sense that most of them are already pro's). We could see a center heavy draft the way we saw a LW heavy draft 2 years ago. We also need RWers as well so those two positions will probably be addressed this draft.
I'm ok with Miller being ahead of Prokhorkin. The kids putting up a point per game in junior, he's having a fine season. Either or at 10th (or even someone else) is fine by me. It's not that big of a stretch.

As for the draft, We are getting thin on D to a degree, and we'll likely grab a goalie too, so, considering we are somewhat low on picks as we don't have a 1st this year, we'll likely be just drafting BPA and ensuring we get a goalie. I doubt D/DS will target a specific position, and I don't think they targeted LW when they did their 2011 draft. It just worked out that way.

Really, drafting a winger can go for both wings. Transitioning from centre to the wing or from one wing to the other is the easiest transition to make in hockey.

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