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Redmond taken to hospital after skate cut - [UPDATE]: Out for season

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Old
02-22-2013, 12:43 PM
  #76
Tintin's Ghost
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Redmond will be missed from the lineup. Impressive start to his career.

So, he is an RFA on Jul 1st right? Guess we're gonna have to pay him for potential although the small sample size was impressive.

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02-22-2013, 12:44 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Tourniquet's cause alot of harm to the limb, including ALOT of tissue damage. It's probably preferable to death, but when your dealin with a professional athlete...it's preferable to not cause extensive damage.

I was in the military myself...and I can tell you that quikclot is purely an army thing. Hospitals don't even have it.

And quickclot is designed for gun shot wounds and stabbings. I'm not to sure how useful it would be for an arterial bleed like that.
I'm sorry but that first paragraph is confusing. I can't believe that any trainer would be "Oh my, a femoral bleed, I have to make sure I don't cause any trauma that would preclude this player from playing later on"

Life and death, stop the bleeding ABC's, standard stuff.

All the rest.
I think might want to research that a bit.
http://www.z-medica.com/firstResponder/Home.aspx

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02-22-2013, 12:46 PM
  #78
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This injury brings back gruesome childhood memories of the Clint Malarchuk incident. I feel terrible for Zach and Mittens. Bummed that Redmond is out for the year, but really glad that he'll make a full recovery.

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02-22-2013, 12:48 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
No. Unless they actually know how to use the god damn thing. And even at that, alot of health care professionals are loath to use them. They almost cause as much harm as good.
How to use them?

It's not rocket science, you've said you were in the forces as well, I'm sure you have handled them before.

So the tradeoff is damage to surrounding tissue(?) or death.

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02-22-2013, 12:53 PM
  #80
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Besides expressing concern and getting an update, what do some of you guys hope to gain by obsessing over every detail related to this poor man's injury? If you really are interested in the medical or military aspects of major injuries like these, are there not discussion forums for that?

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02-22-2013, 12:58 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by GrandChelems View Post
Besides expressing concern and getting an update, what do some of you guys hope to gain by obsessing over every detail related to this poor man's injury? If you really are interested in the medical or military aspects of major injuries like these, are there not discussion forums for that?
Obsessing?

We're having a discussion here, what are you adding to it?

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02-22-2013, 12:58 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by GrandChelems View Post
Besides expressing concern and getting an update, what do some of you guys hope to gain by obsessing over every detail related to this poor man's injury? If you really are interested in the medical or military aspects of major injuries like these, are there not discussion forums for that?
Are you really going there? Why even go there? lol



Anyways, unfortunate that he's out for the year. In a positive, we should get a chance to see what Melchiori's got.

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02-22-2013, 01:00 PM
  #83
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Best wishes for a full recovery Zach!

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02-22-2013, 01:04 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by FTDD View Post
Obsessing?

We're having a discussion here, what are you adding to it?
Maturity and respect.

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02-22-2013, 01:07 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by GrandChelems View Post
Maturity and respect.

How is having a discussion immature and disrespectful?

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02-22-2013, 01:19 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by FTDD View Post
How is having a discussion immature and disrespectful?
Yup. We're just a bunch of buddies casually sitting around a table talking about an accident. We're just chatting; no-one has been offensive, and no one is really wanting to go to library or do some hard medical investigation - we're just shooting the breeze with some pals. Nothing wrong with that.

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Old
02-22-2013, 01:28 PM
  #87
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Yup. We're just a bunch of buddies casually sitting around a table talking about an accident. We're just chatting; no-one has been offensive, and no one is really wanting to go to library or do some hard medical investigation - we're just shooting the breeze with some pals. Nothing wrong with that.
Sarcasm ?

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02-22-2013, 01:34 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by GrandChelems View Post
Besides expressing concern and getting an update, what do some of you guys hope to gain by obsessing over every detail related to this poor man's injury? If you really are interested in the medical or military aspects of major injuries like these, are there not discussion forums for that?
This is a hockey forum. Were discussing a hockey player suffering a near life threatning injury.

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02-22-2013, 01:39 PM
  #89
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Sarcasm ?
None. Allusions, is all. I mean what I say. Participating in this forums is akin to a bunch of guys casually sitting around a table chatting. No one is professing to be an expert on a topic; most topics are handled without crossing any lines, and I don't think any are being crossed here.

GrandChelems is implying that our conversation is inappropriate and better suited for other forums; I think it's fine to discuss it the way we are discussing it here. It might not be the best way to become educated about the details of arterial injuries and what not...but then again no one is really looking for that here. So I don't think we should be asked to leave, desist, or go sign up on some medical forum to direct our questions, as nothing we've said is against forum rules afaik. We're just a bunch of guys sitting around a table chatting, and there's nothing wrong with that.

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Old
02-22-2013, 01:43 PM
  #90
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How to use them?

It's not rocket science, you've said you were in the forces as well, I'm sure you have handled them before.

So the tradeoff is damage to surrounding tissue(?) or death.
You're right. It's not rocket science. However that being said, I've seen tourniquets put on incorrectly during training, and the poor medic's leg swelled up to half the size and from her upper thigh to the tips of her toes were black and blue.

A tourniquet that high will cut off the circulation to your entire leg...and if it is left on too long, you could lose the leg.

To you and I, it's very cut and dry. But to a professional athlete, I imagine that it's not that simple. Extensive damage to his leg can and will affect the rest of his career.

I get the ABC's and stuff...but apply pressure does not mean apply tourniquet. You use a tourniquet with the understanding that it's life or death and to aren't goin to get medical help right away and you know that the guy will probably have lasting effects from it.

In this case, you can get him to the hospital to get looked at.

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02-22-2013, 01:46 PM
  #91
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I was under the impression that when a tourniquet was used, there was high risk to permanently damaging, and even possibly loosing the injured limb. Here's hoping Reds has a full recovery and is back with force next season.

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02-22-2013, 01:50 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by GrandChelems View Post
Maturity and respect.
This is a forum. Without discussion it's empty. There is nothing immature or disrespectful about whether or not the Jets (or any sports team) is properly prepared for dire injuries.

You are welcome to ignore any thread you like, ftr.

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Old
02-22-2013, 01:51 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Kinjero View Post
I was under the impression that when a tourniquet was used, there was high risk to permanently damaging, and even possibly loosing the injured limb. Here's hoping Reds has a full recovery and is back with force next season.
You assume correct. It's really a last resort.

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02-22-2013, 01:53 PM
  #94
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I was under the impression that when a tourniquet was used, there was high risk to permanently damaging, and even possibly loosing the injured limb. Here's hoping Reds has a full recovery and is back with force next season.
That is true. You are of course cutting of blood and all the nutrients it supplies, so you are starving the limb of oxygen amongst other things.

It's a fine balance between not damaging the limb and saving a life. We seem to have a highly trained staff, so I am sure they have set protocols to follow. When someone loses 1.5L of blood, a tourniquet isn't a terrible idea.

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02-22-2013, 01:59 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Kinjero View Post
I was under the impression that when a tourniquet was used, there was high risk to permanently damaging, and even possibly loosing the injured limb. Here's hoping Reds has a full recovery and is back with force next season.
You can exsanguinate in just a few minutes from a major arterial injury. A tourniquet can be life saving because sometimes it's difficult to apply direct pressure to a deep wound. A tourniquet can remain on a limb for a fair bit of time (much longer than it takes to bleed out) without long-term effects.
There is every reason to believe that Redmond will be back playing pro-hockey next year.

There are very good basic and advanced first aid courses out there. I hope this will inspire more hockey players to get educated. The courses are only a few days in duration and it looks like the Jets may have a long off-season.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:19 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
None. Allusions, is all. I mean what I say. Participating in this forums is akin to a bunch of guys casually sitting around a table chatting. No one is professing to be an expert on a topic; most topics are handled without crossing any lines, and I don't think any are being crossed here.

GrandChelems is implying that our conversation is inappropriate and better suited for other forums; I think it's fine to discuss it the way we are discussing it here. It might not be the best way to become educated about the details of arterial injuries and what not...but then again no one is really looking for that here. So I don't think we should be asked to leave, desist, or go sign up on some medical forum to direct our questions, as nothing we've said is against forum rules afaik. We're just a bunch of guys sitting around a table chatting, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Sorry, it's sometimes hard to assess a posters intent sometimes and I agree, all we're doing here is discussing the situation that took place.

I haven't felt that anyone has crossed any lines whatsoever and furthermore, I would say that anyone who feels otherwise not just post and run but to try and articulate there concerns in such a way that others might better be able to comprehend just why they feel this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
You're right. It's not rocket science. However that being said, I've seen tourniquets put on incorrectly during training, and the poor medic's leg swelled up to half the size and from her upper thigh to the tips of her toes were black and blue.

A tourniquet that high will cut off the circulation to your entire leg...and if it is left on too long, you could lose the leg.

To you and I, it's very cut and dry. But to a professional athlete, I imagine that it's not that simple. Extensive damage to his leg can and will affect the rest of his career.

I get the ABC's and stuff...but apply pressure does not mean apply tourniquet. You use a tourniquet with the understanding that it's life or death and to aren't goin to get medical help right away and you know that the guy will probably have lasting effects from it.

In this case, you can get him to the hospital to get looked at.
I understand totally with regards to the use being a last resort, without actually being there and only going on what information has been made available to date, wouldn't you say that the situation was pretty dire and using a jacket as a makeshift tourniquet was indeed approaching if not past the "last resort" stage?

The bold above is where I'm having difficulty understanding your point of view ref. tourniquets. I think he was in a life and death situation, I also think that the bleed was so critical that they had to use something to staunch the flow. If it's life or damage to tissue or nerve I think the answer is an easy one.

As for your example of the improper tourniquet use, that should not have been allowed to happen. It sounds like the Medic didn't know what they we're doing as well. You don't let someone crank a tourniquet on you that tight, especially when it's not required (for obvious reasons).

I can't imagine how that scenario played out.

Medic "Ok, slip the tourniquet over my leg, fasten the velcro, and turn to tighten, ok that's tight enough.....ok I can't feel my leg you can stop....no really you can stop now..."

Something strange about that...

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:45 PM
  #97
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I can't believe I only heard about this now!

Geez, good on those guys for thinking so quickly. Saved his life.

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02-22-2013, 04:06 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wings View Post
None. Allusions, is all. I mean what I say. Participating in this forums is akin to a bunch of guys casually sitting around a table chatting. No one is professing to be an expert on a topic; most topics are handled without crossing any lines, and I don't think any are being crossed here.

GrandChelems is implying that our conversation is inappropriate and better suited for other forums; I think it's fine to discuss it the way we are discussing it here. It might not be the best way to become educated about the details of arterial injuries and what not...but then again no one is really looking for that here. So I don't think we should be asked to leave, desist, or go sign up on some medical forum to direct our questions, as nothing we've said is against forum rules afaik. We're just a bunch of guys sitting around a table chatting, and there's nothing wrong with that.
...unless someone offers an alternate point of view. Look, there were lots of folks in the Jets family traumatized by the whole thing and would just much rather it not be the big buzz. But you're right you have every right to talk about it, as I'm sure if your mother was run over by a bus you'd have no problem if a bunch of guys sit around a table and have chat about how it were either her bones or organs which were crushed, how much blood she lost, and how it was dealt with it. Just a chat, you know.

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Old
02-22-2013, 04:18 PM
  #99
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In 95, I think it was the Jets season opener after the first lockout, the Jets were playing Anaheim. Keith Tkachuk collided with a Duck right in front of the benches and both players went down. I was excuited because, well, Tkachuk was crazy in those days and I thought there would be a fight. The Duck player got up and then fell to his knees. Keith's skate had cut his wrist. Blood squirted out about 10 feet, going every where and there was a collective "Aaaaahhhh" from the crowd. They ran him right into the Jets dressing room - I forget his name but he was out for over a year with nerve damage. The spent about 10 minutes cleaning the blood off the ice and boards. The game was a real downer after that, you could tell the players on both teams did not want to be out there after what had happened. Made me sick to my stomach to see it live.
It was Don McSween. I mentioned his name when the Karlsson injury was being discussed, he tore Selanne's Achilles tendon on almost the exact same play. Almost a year later to the day, he was injured badly by Tkachuk's skate blade.

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02-22-2013, 04:32 PM
  #100
Hank Chinaski
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Originally Posted by GrandChelems View Post
...unless someone offers an alternate point of view. Look, there were lots of folks in the Jets family traumatized by the whole thing and would just much rather it not be the big buzz. But you're right you have every right to talk about it, as I'm sure if your mother was run over by a bus you'd have no problem if a bunch of guys sit around a table and have chat about how it were either her bones or organs which were crushed, how much blood she lost, and how it was dealt with it. Just a chat, you know.
I get where you're coming from GC, but I don't think there's anything perverse or insensitive about this discussion. This was without question a medical emergency that occurred yesterday, and people are relating their knowledge and experience with that kind of emergency.

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