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Old
02-22-2013, 12:08 PM
  #26
Domino11
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Diaz doesn't equal simmonds at all but Diaz is more valuable then talbot ... Talbot is a 3 or 4 line centre he's good but not that good !!

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02-22-2013, 12:10 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
the habs would be stupid if they trade him for talbot.

I say diaz should not be available and they should keep him to see if he can be consistent an entire season.
That's what all teams do with unproven 27-year-old free agents skaters from overseas that are currently looking better than expected.

Believing that the Canadiens will do that is not that far-fetched. It's also because no other team would offer up substantial pieces in return for that skater. We're not getting PK Subban for Matt Read. You're not getting Simmonds for Diaz. It's the way the world works.

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02-22-2013, 12:11 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
oh dear. Diaz is not worth Simmonds in ANY way you try and spin it!
Diaz for Talbot...sure...but not for Simmonds
Not 1 person said that Diaz is worth more than Simmonds. All we said was that it makes no sense at all for The Habs to trade Eller and Diaz when they are playing so well and the team is winning.


Even if we assume that Talbot is worth a 2nd.

that would mean that the rest of the deal is Simmonds for Diaz and Eller.

No way the habs do that.

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02-22-2013, 12:14 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That's what all teams do with unproven 27-year-old free agents skaters from overseas that are currently looking better than expected.

Believing that the Canadiens will do that is not that far-fetched. It's also because no other team would offer up substantial pieces in return for that skater. We're not getting PK Subban for Matt Read. You're not getting Simmonds for Diaz. It's the way the world works.
That would make sense, except you forgot that Eller was in the OP as well.

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02-22-2013, 12:36 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
That would make sense, except you forgot that Eller was in the OP as well.
So?

We need centers?

It's not like Eller is all that great anyway.

Matt Read + McGinn/Wellwood/Zolnierczyk for PK Subban.

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02-22-2013, 12:57 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
So?

We need centers?


It's not like Eller is all that great anyway.

Matt Read + McGinn/Wellwood/Zolnierczyk for PK Subban.
I could care less if philly needs centers or not.

Id rather have Diaz and Eller than Simmonds right now. Talbot and the 2nd cancell each other out.....

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Old
02-22-2013, 01:51 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
oh dear. Diaz is not worth Simmonds in ANY way you try and spin it!
Diaz for Talbot...sure...but not for Simmonds
We got enough guys on our 4th line.

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Old
02-22-2013, 01:57 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
I could care less if philly needs centers or not.

Id rather have Diaz and Eller than Simmonds right now. Talbot and the 2nd cancell each other out.....
I'd rather have the 2nd to Talbot. Diaz and Eller are worth more than Simmonds. I'll take Simmonds on my team anyday. Talbot is a dime a dozen player. A player that averages around 25 points per year is easy to find.

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Old
02-22-2013, 02:11 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
I'd rather have the 2nd to Talbot. Diaz and Eller are worth more than Simmonds. I'll take Simmonds on my team anyday. Talbot is a dime a dozen player. A player that averages around 25 points per year is easy to find.
In no way is Diaz and Eller better than Simmonds. Diaz is playing well for us, but let's not forget that mot of his points are on the PP playing alongside Markov.

The way I see it: Simmonds>Eller>Diaz>Talbot in terms of value.
Don't see why Philly would give up one of the better PF wingers in the NHL today.

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Old
02-22-2013, 02:51 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That's like saying Matt Read has Martin St. Louis-esque potential.

The man has played 76 games, and he's already 27.
Take a wild guess how many games Rafalski had under his belt at 27...





i get random posters not doing any fact finding before spouting out un-informed comments... but people wanting to make their living writing about a sport probably should hold themselves to higher standards... no?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=4438

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Old
02-22-2013, 02:59 PM
  #36
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I'd like to have Simmonds on the Habs, but he's basically a 20/20 winger. He does bring a great physical element, but he's not close to a 30 goals scorer like his previous season would indicate.

Following this line of thought, I wouldn't trade Eller, Diaz and a 2nd for him. Both players are starting to find their groove lately, and that 2nd rounder will be a high one in a deep draft. Talbot is of no interest at all for me. He's a Steve Bégin 2.0 at best on a pretty lengthy contract.

I think the Habs are giving a pretty solid value here. The only way I see the Flyers refusing it is because A) they're already very deep at center, much like the Habs, and B) they lack some depth on the wings and cannot afford losing Simmonds on the wings, again much like the Habs.

Just imagine if Diaz isn't simply on a hot streak but has finally truly established himself in the league... I'd be reticent to trade him as it is for Simmonds.

I don't think this trade helps the Habs all that much, and I don't think there's enough coming back for the Flyers to consider. They'd need a winger at least, I believe.

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Old
02-22-2013, 02:59 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Take a wild guess how many games Rafalski had under his belt at 27...





i get random posters not doing any fact finding before spouting out un-informed comments... but people wanting to make their living writing about a sport probably should hold themselves to higher standards... no?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=4438


Martin St. Louis (25-year-old / 1st full NHL season) : 78 GP - 18 G - 22 A - 40 P
Matt Read (25-year-old / 1st full NHL season) : 79 GP - 24 G - 23 A - 47 P


So, if you're allowed to say that Diaz is the next Rafalski, then I can tell you to start calling Read, Matt "The Next St. Louis" Read.

If you won't call Matt Read the next Martin St. Louis, then you can't call Raphael Diaz the next Brian Rafalski.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by ReppingMTL View Post
In no way is Diaz and Eller better than Simmonds. Diaz is playing well for us, but let's not forget that mot of his points are on the PP playing alongside Markov.

The way I see it: Simmonds>Eller>Diaz>Talbot in terms of value.
Don't see why Philly would give up one of the better PF wingers in the NHL today.
To clarify, Diaz and Eller put together are worth more than Simmonds.

I'm also thinking that Diaz's value is greater than Eller. Second pairing defenseman on the first PP unit. Eller, is a third liner on the third PP unit.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:05 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post


Martin St. Louis (25-year-old / 1st full NHL season) : 78 GP - 18 G - 22 A - 40 P
Matt Read (25-year-old / 1st full NHL season) : 79 GP - 24 G - 23 A - 47 P


So, if you're allowed to say that Diaz is the next Rafalski, then I can tell you to start calling Read, Matt "The Next St. Louis" Read.

If you won't call Matt Read the next Martin St. Louis, then you can't call Raphael Diaz the next Brian Rafalski.
That's a fun game. Let's see, my turn.

Martin St. Louis (25-year-old / 1st full NHL season) : 78 GP - 18 G - 22 A - 40 P
Matt Read (25-year-old / 1st full NHL season) : 79 GP - 24 G - 23 A - 47 P
David Desharnais (24-year-old / 1st full NHL season) :81 GP - 16 G - 44 A - 60 P

It would appear that Desharnais is the next St.Louis even more than Read.

Yeah, that was fun. Your turn now.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:11 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
That's a fun game. Let's see, my turn.

Martin St. Louis (25-year-old / 1st full NHL season) : 78 GP - 18 G - 22 A - 40 P
Matt Read (25-year-old / 1st full NHL season) : 79 GP - 24 G - 23 A - 47 P
David Desharnais (24-year-old / 1st full NHL season) :81 GP - 16 G - 44 A - 60 P

It would appear that Desharnais is the next St.Louis even more than Read.

Yeah, that was fun. Your turn now.
Oh I got one.

Randy Jones : 71 G - 5 G - 26 A - 31 P

Shame our very own Brian Rafalski is now 31 and playing for the Oklahoma City Barons.

But you're right. It's completely rational and sane to call Raphael Diaz the next Brian Rafalski at this point in his career.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:24 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Oh I got one.

Randy Jones : 71 G - 5 G - 26 A - 31 P

Shame our very own Brian Rafalski is now 31 and playing for the Oklahoma City Barons.

But you're right. It's completely rational and sane to call Raphael Diaz the next Brian Rafalski at this point in his career.
No one said he is the next Rafalski.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:26 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Price4Prez View Post
well IMHO, that is an overpayment ! What more do u want for a 25 goal scorer and a 3rd liner? You telling me it would take Subban,and from the sound of it, u think habs would need to add..that is freaking laughable. Cmon now. Ud have to add to Simmons and Talbot to get Subban, not the other way around

Any realistic and thoughtful counter proposal or did u just wanna post ur ridiculous troll comment?!
It was not necessarily a troll comment, it was an exaggeration used to show you how poorly he thinks of the OP(I hope). There is no way he thinks it takes Subban + to get Simmonds.

However, it would take something more valuable than Diaz and Eller to get Simmonds. Diaz and Eller have value, but Eller is redundant for Philly, and Diaz is not the right piece to try to use to get a power forward who can score, hit, fight, and play good hockey. Yes, Eller and Diaz are playing well, but value needs to be attached to team needs, strengths, and weaknesses. Simmonds is to Philly as Pacioretty is to Montreal. Think of Pacioretty value when trying to get Simmonds. In all honesty, based on what Philly needs and the Habs have, Subban for Simmonds + or an Emelin + for Simmonds are the only real possibilities based on our respective rosters.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:27 PM
  #43
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I'll echo the sentiment from habs fans in this thread:

Diaz and Eller > Simmonds
Calgary's 2nd > Talbot

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:31 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Oh I got one.

Randy Jones : 71 G - 5 G - 26 A - 31 P

Shame our very own Brian Rafalski is now 31 and playing for the Oklahoma City Barons.

But you're right. It's completely rational and sane to call Raphael Diaz the next Brian Rafalski at this point in his career.

I think you just lost an argument with yourself. It was fun to watch though.


Back to the trade: This doesn't address the flyers defensive needs enough to warrant trading away Simmonds. Talbot is cheap and good at his role but he isn't the centerpiece of this trade.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:33 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
Diaz is comparable to Rafalski and he have the potential to become that good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
No one said he is the next Rafalski.
The quote Shafer had clearly been referring to did.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:35 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Take a wild guess how many games Rafalski had under his belt at 27...





i get random posters not doing any fact finding before spouting out un-informed comments... but people wanting to make their living writing about a sport probably should hold themselves to higher standards... no?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=4438
LOL. I love it. While I think Chris is correct in stating Philly would, and should, NOT trade Simmonds for the OP, I do like when it can be shown to him where he is wrong about certain things (such as JvR, Carter, and Richards being "untouchable" as an example).

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:35 PM
  #47
IceDaddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zod View Post
The quote Shafer had clearly been referring to did.

saying he is comparable in terms of the way he plays and having potential is not the same as saying he will be as good. But I guess only flyer fans can rave about the potential in their young players....

so again, no one said he will be as good as Rafalski.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:40 PM
  #48
Drydenwasthebest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zod View Post
The quote Shafer had clearly been referring to did.
Actually, the quote clearly states Diaz is "comparable" to Rafalki and has the "potential" to become that good. Reading comprehension is important. So, no, nobody said Diaz was as good as Rafalski. Yet.

It is also important to note that the age and games played comparable was factual, in regards to the Rafalski/Diaz comparison and was incorrectly used by Shafer as a way to try and diminish Diaz' value before he realized how it directly linked to that comparable.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:42 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
saying he is comparable in terms of the way he plays and having potential is not the same as saying he will be as good. But I guess only flyer fans can rave about the potential in their young players....

so again, no one said he will be as good as Rafalski.
I was told two things:

1) He is comparable to Rafalski and has such possential
2) He possibly has more value than Simmonds

From those clues I can infer...

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:44 PM
  #50
IceDaddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I was told two things:

1) He is comparable to Rafalski and has such possential
2) He possibly has more value than Simmonds

From those clues I can infer...

1. He is and does
2. I am too lazy to go back and read the entire thread but I am pretty sure that people said Eller and Diaz together are worth more than Simmonds. Not Diaz alone.


Last edited by IceDaddy: 02-22-2013 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Spelling
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