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Old
02-22-2013, 11:11 AM
  #51
Callagraves
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Torts will give them less days off, more practice.

Team will play better. Win everything.

Worry, I do not.

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Old
02-22-2013, 11:13 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
Step away from dump the puck, grinding and start create plays, pass and play open hockey.
This,

Less dump and chase when there is an opportunity to play a puck possession through the neutral zone and into the offensive zone game.

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02-22-2013, 11:26 AM
  #53
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I know dump and chase sucks guys, but this team is not currently playing on a level that screams, "Let us be more creative."

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02-22-2013, 11:35 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
I know dump and chase sucks guys, but this team is not currently playing on a level that screams, "Let us be more creative."
Sort of the chicken or the egg though,

Lost a lot of puck retrievers this off-season. Hagelin with his speed and Callahan with his tenaciousness are really the only two who can chase and come away with possession with any sort of consistency.

Not saying they are built for creative puck possession either but if dump and chase just equates to loss of possession, might be time to try something else.

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02-22-2013, 11:52 AM
  #55
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A bog part of dump and chase is the cycle and subsequent play back to the point . What happens after that is one of the NYR play in the O zone . I'm not saying a big shot from the point is the answer but it would help . Having D MEN who can make a lot of plays , walking the line , crisp passing to the walls etc . NYR d men , Are great at gap control for most part but not the best creative passers or great at one timing and getting good shots through .
So in a nutshell dump and chase is only part of the problem . I also will go on record as saying that Hags was skating the puck a ton through the NZ last night .
The dump and chase isn't biggest challenge . I think the transition game and lack of scoring consistently off the rush and The PP are more troublesome .

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Old
02-22-2013, 12:02 PM
  #56
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1) Get a god damn bottom pairing the coach can trust to keep the top-4 fresh

2) Stop tinkering with band aid lineups. Stick with one lineup and let them develop chemistry through continuity

3) Patience. 32 games left. Lots of hockey left.

The goal is to win the Cup. Learn from mistakes and build towards that.

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02-22-2013, 12:06 PM
  #57
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Yeah I could understand Torts using the start if the season as part of camp to evaluate guys. But he has to stop messing with the lineup if health will allow it.

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02-22-2013, 12:11 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
1) Get a god damn bottom pairing the coach can trust to keep the top-4 fresh

2) Stop tinkering with band aid lineups. Stick with one lineup and let them develop chemistry through continuity

3) Patience. 32 games left. Lots of hockey left.

The goal is to win the Cup. Learn from mistakes and build towards that.
This is my biggest complaint regarding Torts. Its unbearable when we are down 1 in the 3rd and he is putting guys like Boyle with gabby and putting Kreider on the 4th.

Re kreider: I think he is slowly getting better, but I think his problem is all mental. He is probably worried about getting benched for making a single mistake, can you blame him? Stick him in the top 6 and KEEP HIM THERE. Let him develop.

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Old
02-22-2013, 12:11 PM
  #59
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I wouldn't do much of anything just yet. This format, 48 games, a week of camp, no preseason, won't be repeated for a decade, if ever. I wouldn't make huge changes to a team that had so much success last year based on poor performance, which really isn't that poor in the scheme of things, in an odd season like this. I'd definitely have a PP coach come in and work with them for the rest of the season though. If they end up not being useful, dump them after, at least the team tried something new to solve it's biggest problem. I'd also have them watch other successful PP setups, if they aren't doing that right now. You can watch a PP like the Pens and just see how they move. If you don't have the puck, be moving. Once you pass it, move. It's not that difficult.

I'm sick and tired of hearing "open it up" and "get rid of dump and chase" - the players who are capable of carrying the puck in and making crisp passes do those things night in and night out and Torts never, ever punishes them for it. I don't understand where this idea that Torts doesn't want them to play that way comes from. Nash plays that game all the time. McD does it all the time. Staal does it fairly often with success. Hagelin can do it well but he also dumps and chases effectively with his speed. Richards tries and fails, but he's a whole different story, his problems are not system related IMO, he's just not thinking the game the way he's capable of. Notice something about those players, Nash, McD, Staal, Hagelin - they're guys that get top minutes. They aren't punished for playing that game, they're rewarded for it. Bottom line, from what I see, the players who can "open it up" do, and the guys who dump and chase most often do it because they aren't the players who can open it up. I don't have a problem with that.

I'd probably give these lines a longer try though, 5-10 games unless it was obvious that one or more weren't working:

Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Pyatt - Richards - Gaborik
Kreider - Miller - Callahan
Mash - Halpern - Boyle

Overall, I wouldn't make huge trades or hirings/firings based on the performance so far. This format is unusual and isn't going to be repeated. I truly think that a full camp and preseason, having time to see and evaluate all the new guys and tweak the strategy to fit them and then having a handful of meaningless games to tweak further, would have made a huge difference. I think the team is trying to find itself as they play, and I don't think they'd have to do that under a normal season format. They'll get better.

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Old
02-22-2013, 12:15 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
1) Get a god damn bottom pairing the coach can trust to keep the top-4 fresh

2) Stop tinkering with band aid lineups. Stick with one lineup and let them develop chemistry through continuity

3) Patience. 32 games left. Lots of hockey left.

The goal is to win the Cup. Learn from mistakes and build towards that.
Love the lack of panic...this team is far from making some of the suggested overhauls as disappointing as the start has been.

1) Get Rick Nash back and put him with Richie and Cally. Nash has seemed to elevate the play of each of his linemates from what I've seen. These two have been brutal 5 on 5 so hopefully he can work his magic...Step Hags and Gabby look dangerous enough to move Nash.

2) Acquire that solid bottom 6 guy...far from an impossible task seeing as how we got Stralman.

3) Pray we can get some scoring out of our bottom 6...Maybe a combo of Miller Boyle and Kreider can provide good speed/size and create something...idk

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Old
02-22-2013, 12:17 PM
  #61
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Give CK time. Chicago put Saad with Toews and Hossa and kept him there. How is that working out for them? CK should be with guys that can get him the puck. He shouldn't be expected to grind with Brian Boyle.

And before you guys start yelling at me, yes, I know that Hagelin came up and grinded with Boyle at first. But that's the kind of player he is-you can put him anywhere and he'll succeed. CK is just a different player. You can't treat every player the exact same way. No method works 100% of the time.

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Old
02-22-2013, 12:18 PM
  #62
The Torts Identity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
I wouldn't do much of anything just yet. This format, 48 games, a week of camp, no preseason, won't be repeated for a decade, if ever. I wouldn't make huge changes to a team that had so much success last year based on poor performance, which really isn't that poor in the scheme of things, in an odd season like this. I'd definitely have a PP coach come in and work with them for the rest of the season though. If they end up not being useful, dump them after, at least the team tried something new to solve it's biggest problem. I'd also have them watch other successful PP setups, if they aren't doing that right now. You can watch a PP like the Pens and just see how they move. If you don't have the puck, be moving. Once you pass it, move. It's not that difficult.

I'm sick and tired of hearing "open it up" and "get rid of dump and chase" - the players who are capable of carrying the puck in and making crisp passes do those things night in and night out and Torts never, ever punishes them for it. I don't understand where this idea that Torts doesn't want them to play that way comes from. Nash plays that game all the time. McD does it all the time. Staal does it fairly often with success. Hagelin can do it well but he also dumps and chases effectively with his speed. Richards tries and fails, but he's a whole different story, his problems are not system related IMO, he's just not thinking the game the way he's capable of. Notice something about those players, Nash, McD, Staal, Hagelin - they're guys that get top minutes. They aren't punished for playing that game, they're rewarded for it. Bottom line, from what I see, the players who can "open it up" do, and the guys who dump and chase most often do it because they aren't the players who can open it up. I don't have a problem with that.

I'd probably give these lines a longer try though, 5-10 games unless it was obvious that one or more weren't working:

Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Pyatt - Richards - Gaborik
Kreider - Miller - Callahan
Mash - Halpern - Boyle


Overall, I wouldn't make huge trades or hirings/firings based on the performance so far. This format is unusual and isn't going to be repeated. I truly think that a full camp and preseason, having time to see and evaluate all the new guys and tweak the strategy to fit them and then having a handful of meaningless games to tweak further, would have made a huge difference. I think the team is trying to find itself as they play, and I don't think they'd have to do that under a normal season format. They'll get better.
I don't think Pyatt and Gaborik will be able to give Richards the space he clearly needs. At this point of the year it seems Nash and Hagelin have probably done the best job at doing just that. Have them split up and hope to get some of the other guys going.

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Old
02-22-2013, 12:24 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by The Torts Identity View Post
I don't think Pyatt and Gaborik will be able to give Richards the space he clearly needs. At this point of the year it seems Nash and Hagelin have probably done the best job at doing just that. Have them split up and hope to get some of the other guys going.
I wouldn't split up Nash and Hagelin - I think that their games suit one another's perfectly. Nash attracts attention, guys try to double up on him and then Hagelin uses his speed to get to the new space that double team created and puts the puck away. It works nicely. Notice that Hagelin has been playing very well individually with Step and Gaborik but hasn't had the same effect. Gaborik doesn't carry the puck and rush the net like Nash does, and he doesn't pull defenders away from the other guys on the ice. Not to hate on Gabby, he's good at what he does, but he doesn't play that kind of game.

I don't think Pyatt is perfectly suited for that line, but with Richards' struggles, that line needs someone who can play safe, play the boards and do dirty work in my opinion. I think Richards' needs way more than space right now. He needs confidence. One of the announcers was saying last night that Richie asked him what he did when he was fighting it as a player - that says to me that he's struggling mentally and just searching for answers everywhere. Also, he's turned the jets on a few times and looked quick. I really think he just needs some confidence. Not sure where it's going to come from, but hopefully it'll come once the team gets cooking and he feels less pressure.

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02-22-2013, 12:24 PM
  #64
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A real camp would be a nice start. Hard to put a new system in place when you're in the midst of a season. Even more so when you're considered a cup contender and have huge expectations put upon you.

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02-22-2013, 12:28 PM
  #65
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Team has to start bonding and looking after each others backs...we can't have guys like Neil getting away with his antics every time we play them . A lot of our guys need to grow a pair . We have a big team...we should be the bullies...not the choir practice pre schoolers !!! We need at least 5 guys on this team that will drop the gloves and at least TRY and 3 of them that can hold their own .

Change our style or change the coach...no explanation needed and the new style will fix our PP and improve our passing and receiving skills...we certainly have the best deflectors in the league ! ROR for DZ will not hurt us IMO unless we add to the deal and overpay him .

If we can do all that and eventually buy out BR and trade Gabby for youth , we might have a chance of being a good team in the second half of this decade even though we won't win a Cup this half we could remain competitive and not drop down to the Islander level . We also better soon start looking for a goalie insurance for down the road...

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02-22-2013, 01:56 PM
  #66
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Fire Sullivan. There needs to be some sort coaching change and Tortorella deserves leeway, so bye bye Sully. Front office picks the successor (somebody with ideas for the PP), and Tortorella knows he's safe for now, but things need to improve. Fast.

Trade Boyle. For a pick. For another defensive minded bottom six guys. Doesn't matter. Boyler was a good soldier, but Tortorella's use of him is irresponsible and the only way to right it is for him to longer be there.

Take Richards/Del Zotto off the PP. Put Stralman and Mac Truck there. I'm not ready to give up on Del Zotto (especially for ROR, where I think we'd get even worse offensively), but I can't watch him on the PP for awhile. If a GM wants to trade a stud offensive center for Mikey, well yeah, but that's not going to happen.

This wouldn't magically solve things, but it would improve. I think we're like the 9th or 10th best team in the East right now, and this would get us in 7/8 territory. With our current Top 6 becoming a mediocre PP is reasonable, and would go a long way.

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02-22-2013, 02:13 PM
  #67
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Trade MDZ +(Boyle/prospects/non first rounders) for RoR and Barrie

Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Pyatt - Richards - Gaborik
Kreider/Miller - RoR - Callahan - your shut down line.
Powe (if healthy) - Halpern - Asham/Boyle

McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - Barrie
Stralman - Gilroy/Eminger/or cheap addition...

Sacrifice a lamb on top of the Empire State Building to the hockey gods hoping that the PP will finally click...

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02-22-2013, 02:32 PM
  #68
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- allow the team to have a proper pre-season together
- new coach and new ideas on the PP
- get a 6th D who Torts will trust with 15ish mins come playoffs
- allow a bit more freedom for the forwards

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02-22-2013, 02:44 PM
  #69
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The panic on this board is amazing..Check the standings,we are right there.Some of you act like we're 5 games under..What is the use of taking this teams temp every other shift? Its all a bunch of worrying for nothing.Fix the PP to even average would be huge,stay healthy and get Nash back,and we will win way more than we lose..

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02-22-2013, 02:50 PM
  #70
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Realistically, this season likely has to be stuck out at whatever cost, because I don't see any immediate solutions. For next year and in some cases time thereafter...

-Lock up Ryan McDonagh for a long ass ****in time by any means necessary
-Fire Torts
-Fire Sullivan
-Trade Del Zotto for a guy who can actually QB a PP
-Buy out Richards (I guess give Nash his A, but I'm not too picky about that)
-Trade Dan Girardi for a forward (I like Girardi but it's high time we dealt surplus for need, plus he can be replaced by Scuderi who is UFA)
-Ryan Callahan comes into camp at the center position. We'll see how that goes.
-I'm willing to stick it out with Gaborik and Lundqvist but both of them need nice slaps upside the head.
-Bring Manny Malhotra back home
-Sign some relatively cheap scoring depth like a Clarke MacArthur because for the love of God the 3rd line is useless

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02-22-2013, 03:28 PM
  #71
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Why not let Richards sit for one or two games. Show him that we are not happy with it as it is now. I think he would take that the right way and really play his heart out.

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02-22-2013, 03:29 PM
  #72
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Why not let Richards sit for one or two games. Show him that we are not happy with it as it is now. I think he would take that the right way and really play his heart out.
Isn't that what his benching and demotion were supposed to do?

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02-22-2013, 03:33 PM
  #73
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• A PP specialist would be a nice addition, even if it improves the PP by a small percentage.
• Let the team continue to find its identity.
• Let the players continue to find their game
• Re-assess in Mid-March

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02-22-2013, 03:34 PM
  #74
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Isn't that what his benching and demotion were supposed to do?
you are right but i think demoting and benching can have the opposite effect he is still there then i think that putting him on the stands would be more effective.. Just my personal thoughts, might not do anything good but im ready to try anything

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02-22-2013, 03:35 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Realistically, this season likely has to be stuck out at whatever cost, because I don't see any immediate solutions. For next year and in some cases time thereafter...

-Lock up Ryan McDonagh for a long ass ****in time by any means necessary
-Fire Torts
-Fire Sullivan
-Trade Del Zotto for a guy who can actually QB a PP
-Buy out Richards (I guess give Nash his A, but I'm not too picky about that)
-Trade Dan Girardi for a forward (I like Girardi but it's high time we dealt surplus for need, plus he can be replaced by Scuderi who is UFA)
-Ryan Callahan comes into camp at the center position. We'll see how that goes.
-I'm willing to stick it out with Gaborik and Lundqvist but both of them need nice slaps upside the head.
-Bring Manny Malhotra back home
-Sign some relatively cheap scoring depth like a Clarke MacArthur because for the love of God the 3rd line is useless

Elaborate.

Otherwise, not much I disagree with. Although expecting Scuderi to hit UFA isnt a guarantee.

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