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Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - 2012-13 (Part XI)

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02-22-2013, 03:23 PM
  #501
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Food for thought,

Would Jets fans rather have Horton at 5-6MM a year via or ROR 4.5MM via trade and lose players picks?
For what the players/picks would have to be , the answer is easy for me ... Horton.

The Jets would like to take a real step forward as opposed to a lateral one imo. Giving up equal value for ROR would be that , but still may make sense. Getting Horton for "just" cash makes the most sense to me. With his past history he may value a long term deal more than most and if Wpg. feels he is a legitimate top six , they may feel they are willing to extend the contract in that regard.

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02-22-2013, 03:24 PM
  #502
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Horton easily. I think that with the cap going down we have a good chance at adding another top 6 forward. Hopefully a RW.

I'd like another top 4 left D but unless we get Smid, Hainsey is the second best one avaliable.

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02-22-2013, 03:24 PM
  #503
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Food for thought,

Would Jets fans rather have Horton at 5-6MM a year via or ROR 4.5MM via trade and lose players picks?
As long as his head is ok, all things being equal I would rather have the guy that didn't cost the team any assets to acquire.

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02-22-2013, 03:30 PM
  #504
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Food for thought,

Would Jets fans rather have Horton at 5-6MM a year via or ROR 4.5MM via trade and lose players picks?
Tough call.

For me, I think i'd still opt for O'Reilly. We need a center in my opinion, and if he can be a 60 point, Selke centerman, I'll take him if the cost is Burmistrov + Postma as the main pieces going the other way. We're heading to the Western Conference, and O'Reilly has proven (well, one season...) to be able to handle tough minutes in that Conference.

I admittedly haven't watched a lot of O'Reilly at all, but from what I can gather he is a Mike Richards-like centerman, and if he continues to grow into that mold then give me him every day of the week and twice on Sunday, even if we have to pay for him.

Horton is good, don't get me wrong, but his health does indeed worry me a bit. I feel we can fill out the Wing position with 20-25 goal scorers a lot easier than finding a 60 point (hopefully), Selke centerman who can at a young age win 52% of his faceoffs and will likely get better there as he gets older. You have to be solid down the middle to win championships. O'Reilly can potentially add to that in the way Boston did with guys like Bergeron, Krejci, etc. Not a knock on Horton, but to me he is more of a complimentary piece, where as O'Reilly could be a pretty big focal point as a centerman.

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02-22-2013, 03:30 PM
  #505
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IMO he is a very good fit for this team , of course he is for lots of teams , but Boston will be hard pressed to pay him and other teams as well , and the Jets will be in a position to pay a contract like he will command.

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02-22-2013, 04:09 PM
  #506
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Horton would be an all right pickup for a few years. But he was never very fleet of foot to begin with. He'll be getting older too. He's pretty big and physical, but he's not a devastating sniper either. To me he'd be like adding another Ladd-type to the top six. A good player for sure, but especially with his concussion history, I'd say $4.5M for 3 to 4 years max. Any more and we'd just be making a blunder out of desperation. That's my view from watching him during the Bruins cup run and nothing of him since.

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02-22-2013, 04:12 PM
  #507
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Like to add that if we were able to snag ROR for Burmistrov and Postma, I'd rather do that. But I'd question if that's possible.

We're not exactly the Flames, but we have a long way to go yet.

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02-22-2013, 04:22 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
Horton would be an all right pickup for a few years. But he was never very fleet of foot to begin with. He'll be getting older too. He's pretty big and physical, but he's not a devastating sniper either. To me he'd be like adding another Ladd-type to the top six. A good player for sure, but especially with his concussion history, I'd say $4.5M for 3 to 4 years max. Any more and we'd just be making a blunder out of desperation. That's my view from watching him during the Bruins cup run and nothing of him since.
He may be not better than another Ladd, but I like the idea of:

Ladd - Little - Wheeler

...then...

Kane - Joker - Horton

or

Kane - Scheifele - Horton

or

Kane - Burmi - Horton

...better than any of our current options.

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02-22-2013, 04:28 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
He may be not better than another Ladd, but I like the idea of:

Ladd - Little - Wheeler

...then...

Kane - Joker - Horton

or

Kane - Scheifele - Horton

or

Kane - Burmi - Horton

...better than any of our current options.
IMO Horton is exactly what we need. That would put us at 4 VERY capable top six wingers. With wingers as strong as that, they should be able to support the lacking 1 Center.

you End up with a Bonifide first line lw (kane. a bonifide first line RW (wheeler), A borderline firstline Left wing,(ladd) a borderline firstline right wing (horton). that should make up for rthe shortcomings at center

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02-22-2013, 04:46 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
Food for thought,

Would Jets fans rather have Horton at 5-6MM a year via or ROR 4.5MM via trade and lose players picks?
Well - I'd like both. .

Love what ROR brings. If he can develop chemistry with Kane, then I'd want ROR more, and would give up Burmi and picks (3rd and/or 2nd, if pushed. I'd also be willing to give a 2014 1st in a bigger package (or Avs option to flip 1st rd picks in 2014), if a pick came back the other way).

But Horton does solidify that top 6 RW spot with a big body with skill. Maybe he would want to play in a Canadian market. But there's a risk there, if he continues to have concussion problems.

So, I'd only offer Horton a Ladd type contract - $22 mill over 5 yrs or say, $27 mill over 6 yrs. I'd offer ROR the same type of deal.

If they don't resign Antro, Welly, Mittens or Montoya. But do re-sign Haisney to a $3 mill/deal, and are able to move Olli for prospects/picks - that lowers the payroll a bit.

They could then go, next year, with:

Kane/ROR/Horton
Ladd/Little/Wheeler
Tangradi/Scheifele/FA
Wright/Slater/Thorbs

Toby/Buff
Hainsey/Bogo
Stuart/Postma
Redmond

Pavs
FA

Depending on deals to the Jets own key RFAs - Little, Wheeler and Bogo - might get away with having a cap hit of under $63 mill (or under the proposed $64 mill). With most of the players would be on multi-year deals.

Perhaps, in a year or two, Trouba eventually takes a top 4 spot - allowing the Jets to remove a high salary, like Buff or Enstrom.

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02-22-2013, 04:53 PM
  #511
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IMO Horton is exactly what we need. That would put us at 4 VERY capable top six wingers. With wingers as strong as that, they should be able to support the lacking 1 Center.

you End up with a Bonifide first line lw (kane. a bonifide first line RW (wheeler), A borderline firstline Left wing,(ladd) a borderline firstline right wing (horton). that should make up for rthe shortcomings at center
It would certainly help mitigate the lack of a #1 Center. Horton would be more of a 2-3 year fix as a top sixer I'd imagine, so long term it would still need addressing but I like the idea. Especially since there's more than a coin flip of a chance that we'll be trying to nab the best offensive center at our draft spot. One other thing I like about Horton is that he comes from a beastly cycling team in Boston. Our team has got to be bottom 3rd in cycling the puck without losing that and he would help address that.

Scheifele will likely take over Jokinen's spot next year or the year after. Hopefully one of our 2nd rounders this year will be used on an offensive right winger as well.

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02-22-2013, 05:14 PM
  #512
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It would certainly help mitigate the lack of a #1 Center. Horton would be more of a 2-3 year fix as a top sixer I'd imagine, so long term it would still need addressing but I like the idea. Especially since there's more than a coin flip of a chance that we'll be trying to nab the best offensive center at our draft spot. One other thing I like about Horton is that he comes from a beastly cycling team in Boston. Our team has got to be bottom 3rd in cycling the puck without losing that and he would help address that.

Scheifele will likely take over Jokinen's spot next year or the year after. Hopefully one of our 2nd rounders this year will be used on an offensive right winger as well.
Horton is 27 , why would he be only viewed as a 2-3 year fix? He has been very consistent so I don't see why that would change barring any unforeseen changes.
a
As I mentioned when the ROR discussion began heating up , I don't believe Burmistrov as the core piece would be accepted by Colorado.

It isn't ROR or Horton for the same acquisition price , if Winnipeg can get a top 6 player with his size , consistency , and versatility for no assets other than cash , I completely see they would be very interested.

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02-22-2013, 06:10 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
Horton is 27 , why would he be only viewed as a 2-3 year fix? He has been very consistent so I don't see why that would change barring any unforeseen changes.
a
As I mentioned when the ROR discussion began heating up , I don't believe Burmistrov as the core piece would be accepted by Colorado.

It isn't ROR or Horton for the same acquisition price , if Winnipeg can get a top 6 player with his size , consistency , and versatility for no assets other than cash , I completely see they would be very interested.
He is only 27 true. He's been in the league for nine seasons now, 564 games. Not that he will be out of the league. It's kind of expected that when he does lose a step or two, his production will drop off somewhat. I was referring to the 5-6 year deals I heard mentioned. He's not super durable either. That said I would love to get him. Has always had a good shooting %, big player that would really help cover up some of Kane's weaknesses. Top six guy on a Cup winner that had offence by committee.

If we can get him for anywhere near what we got Olli for, I'm down. What I don't want though is to have a 15 goal, 40 point guy (he's a 25/30/55 guy over the last 5-7 years averaging roughly) making $5-6M when the team would ideally be having their window of contention open. Then again, unless we get real lucky through the draft, we might never get someone like him...I'm always a fan of bringing in UFA's as opposed to giving up picks and young players.

Seems like a perfect fit the more I look into it. We need more tough veterans in our lineup like him.

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02-22-2013, 06:22 PM
  #514
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I've watched almost every game Horton has played in a Bruins jersey. I would not be in favour of the Jets signing him.

Horton fits perfectly with the guys he plays with in Boston (Krejci and Lucic) but he has not been as good away from those guys.

I think that away from Boston Horton would probably keep his production up, but he would be a much less effective player (in terms of not only scoring but also keeping the puck out of the net).

His size and strength make him exceptionally well suited for the puck possession style his line plays. Lucic's nastiness also makes a lot of room for Horton and occasionally rubs off on him.

Perhaps to compare to a guy that came out of the same system in Wheeler, Wheeler is a guy that was held back by the system where as Horton is a guy that thrives in it.

I think Horton could be highly effective on another team, but he'd need a center like Getzlaf, or Thornton, or even a lesser guy like Ribeiro. On the Jets he'd probably be most effective with Antropov as his center. But is Antropov really going to be around?

Basically, I don't think the Jets have the personnel to pair him with to really get their monies worth at the rate he'll go at on the open market.

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02-22-2013, 06:38 PM
  #515
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I've watched almost every game Horton has played in a Bruins jersey. I would not be in favour of the Jets signing him.

Horton fits perfectly with the guys he plays with in Boston (Krejci and Lucic) but he has not been as good away from those guys.

I think that away from Boston Horton would probably keep his production up, but he would be a much less effective player (in terms of not only scoring but also keeping the puck out of the net).

His size and strength make him exceptionally well suited for the puck possession style his line plays. Lucic's nastiness also makes a lot of room for Horton and occasionally rubs off on him.

Perhaps to compare to a guy that came out of the same system in Wheeler, Wheeler is a guy that was held back by the system where as Horton is a guy that thrives in it.

I think Horton could be highly effective on another team, but he'd need a center like Getzlaf, or Thornton, or even a lesser guy like Ribeiro. On the Jets he'd probably be most effective with Antropov as his center. But is Antropov really going to be around?

Basically, I don't think the Jets have the personnel to pair him with to really get their monies worth at the rate he'll go at on the open market.
He still has a country mike and a half to go but...when I think of what Scheifele could be, David Kreiji seems to be an ideal comparison to my untrained eye?? Is Horton a good PP guy? Seems like no one besides Chara really is on that team.

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02-22-2013, 06:42 PM
  #516
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I've watched almost every game Horton has played in a Bruins jersey. I would not be in favour of the Jets signing him.

Horton fits perfectly with the guys he plays with in Boston (Krejci and Lucic) but he has not been as good away from those guys.

I think that away from Boston Horton would probably keep his production up, but he would be a much less effective player (in terms of not only scoring but also keeping the puck out of the net).

His size and strength make him exceptionally well suited for the puck possession style his line plays. Lucic's nastiness also makes a lot of room for Horton and occasionally rubs off on him.

Perhaps to compare to a guy that came out of the same system in Wheeler, Wheeler is a guy that was held back by the system where as Horton is a guy that thrives in it.

I think Horton could be highly effective on another team, but he'd need a center like Getzlaf, or Thornton, or even a lesser guy like Ribeiro. On the Jets he'd probably be most effective with Antropov as his center. But is Antropov really going to be around?

Basically, I don't think the Jets have the personnel to pair him with to really get their monies worth at the rate he'll go at on the open market.
He played well In Florida without them.

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02-22-2013, 06:51 PM
  #517
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He still has a country mike and a half to go but...when I think of what Scheifele could be, David Kreiji seems to be an ideal comparison to my untrained eye?? Is Horton a good PP guy? Seems like no one besides Chara really is on that team.
Maybe one day with Scheifele, but so far at the NHL level everything I've seen him create was off of transition or broken plays. Maybe one day he'll be capable of the possession/cycle game but it looks to be a long way off.

Horton is not very good on the PP IMO. Doesn't have quite the level of stick handling and passing required. He can be a decent net front presence but not as good as you'd expect given his size.

I think Ladd is a decent comparison in terms of his skill set. Horton is a bit better skater, with a better shot, but is less consistent in his effort and willingness to pay the price to make the play.

As far as the Bruins PP goes, it's not good. They haven't even scored a PP goal at home this season. But having said that, it was probably even worse in 10-11 when they won the Cup. Their approach is to just be so good 5 on 5 that the PP is irrelevant.

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02-22-2013, 06:58 PM
  #518
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A long way to go but in year or two , Lowry could very well do a pretty good impression of Lukic ....

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02-22-2013, 07:00 PM
  #519
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He played well In Florida without them.
No, he didn't. What you've hit upon here is exactly my point. In Florida he put up points.

Putting up points and playing well can be two completely different things. In Florida Horton floated, he took nights off, etc. He put up points because a) he played a heck of a lot and b) has some skills that are elite and basically guarantee him a certain level of production at the NHL level. But that doesn't mean he played well or was an effective player.

If the Jets signed Horton to a contract at his market value this summer and Florida Horton is what they got, it would be a disaster.

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02-22-2013, 07:26 PM
  #520
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A long way to go but in year or two , Lowry could very well do a pretty good impression of Lukic ....
Was thinking the same thing myself. Sounds like he would help but he made $4.5 and 5.5M respectively the last two years. He'll be looking to cash in an AAV around there. Hefty price to pay for a guy who is inconsistent. I said enforce the year started that I'd have given Semin $7M per as long as it wasn't longer than two years. Good chance he stays in Raleigh but he'd be my number one target if I was Chevy.

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02-22-2013, 07:30 PM
  #521
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No, he didn't. What you've hit upon here is exactly my point. In Florida he put up points.

Putting up points and playing well can be two completely different things. In Florida Horton floated, he took nights off, etc. He put up points because a) he played a heck of a lot and b) has some skills that are elite and basically guarantee him a certain level of production at the NHL level. But that doesn't mean he played well or was an effective player.

If the Jets signed Horton to a contract at his market value this summer and Florida Horton is what they got, it would be a disaster.

I watched him play in Florida , and he did play well , now was he maybe inconsistent? maybe , but if you don't think he is top 6 player nothing I can say will convince and honestly it doesn't matter.

IMO he would fit in well , that doesn't mean we will take a run at him and of course he may not entertain any desire to play here , but he won't be resigned by Boston ( salary cap not performance ) and big Bruin fans that I know would without a doubt say he is a legitimate top 6 forward with size , consistency and versatility.

Now if Ryan Getzlaf is available , then my focus and want is all with him , but as I mentioned I doubt he becomes available and would cost a lot more. Horton , to me could be a very positive move for "only" cash.

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02-22-2013, 07:32 PM
  #522
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Was thinking the same thing myself. Sounds like he would help but he made $4.5 and 5.5M respectively the last two years. He'll be looking to cash in an AAV around there. Hefty price to pay for a guy who is inconsistent. I said enforce the year started that I'd have given Semin $7M per as long as it wasn't longer than two years. Good chance he stays in Raleigh but he'd be my number one target if I was Chevy.
I don't see the inconsistent label. Could he more consistent? sure ... but he hasn't had a lot of deep valleys. This team could use that imo.

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02-22-2013, 07:45 PM
  #523
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I don't see the inconsistent label. Could he more consistent? sure ... but he hasn't had a lot of deep valleys. This team could use that imo.
What do you think you limit would be for AAV/term? For me, if it's short term (<2 years) at $5.5M would probably be okay with me. Anything more than 3 years, which he'll almost certainly want, and I wouldn't give him any more than around what Ladd makes. Nothing over $4.5 IMO, which might price us out if a contender goes after him.

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02-22-2013, 07:55 PM
  #524
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I watched him play in Florida , and he did play well , now was he maybe inconsistent? maybe , but if you don't think he is top 6 player nothing I can say will convince and honestly it doesn't matter.

IMO he would fit in well , that doesn't mean we will take a run at him and of course he may not entertain any desire to play here , but he won't be resigned by Boston ( salary cap not performance ) and big Bruin fans that I know would without a doubt say he is a legitimate top 6 forward with size , consistency and versatility.

Now if Ryan Getzlaf is available , then my focus and want is all with him , but as I mentioned I doubt he becomes available and would cost a lot more. Horton , to me could be a very positive move for "only" cash.
He's a legit top 6 guy without a doubt, and will be paid as such this summer. My point is that the contract he gets this summer will be the contract he deserves based on his level of play in Boston the past 3 seasons. I think that based on how perfect of a situation Boston has been for him, on and off the ice, it is very unlikely he will live up to that contract over the next 5 years. Especially if he's not being carefully matched with linemates.

Horton production will always justify him as a top 6 winger, but for a team to win with him in that role there other ingredients required. I simply don't think we have those ingredients. Horton is a guy that doesn't make the players around him better, he's a
guy that needs the players around him to facilitate his effective play. What makes him valuable is when those players are in place he is very good indeed.

As far as the bruins re-signing him goes, currently they do not have the space and going forward it would be increasingly difficult. But I wouldn't count it out entirely. The bruins 3rd line is very well paid but has been disappointing. I wouldn't be surprised to see one of them out the door in the summer
if Horton was willing to take a bit of a 'hometown' discount. Obviously it seems like a stretch he'd leave money on the table but he does have an extremely strong relationship with some bruins players, Lucic in particular.

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02-22-2013, 07:57 PM
  #525
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What do you think you limit would be for AAV/term? For me, if it's short term (<2 years) at $5.5M would probably be okay with me. Anything more than 3 years, which he'll almost certainly want, and I wouldn't give him any more than around what Ladd makes. Nothing over $4.5 IMO, which might price us out if a contender goes after him.
5 years 30M+. He'll definitely be looking for a long term deal. The market would be incredibly weak for him to end up with a 2 year contract.

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