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Somethings gotta give in Toronto.. Carolina?

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Old
02-22-2013, 07:52 PM
  #126
Stephen
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
It does if we can clear 4 million in cap space.

Liles will definitely help whichever team he goes to, but he's in the press box.. That can't be understated.
We don't need the cap space right this moment, deal with it in the offseason... or deal him to a team that isn't competing against us this season. Liles should go, but not as a deal to Carolina if it helps them and we have to retain salary.

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02-22-2013, 07:52 PM
  #127
LickTheEnvelope
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So... which Toronto d-men wont cost teams 1st round picks ++?

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02-22-2013, 07:53 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
We don't need the cap space right this moment, deal with it in the offseason...
After Liles goes another 30 games in the press box?

You need to consider this, the guy is losing value by the day.

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02-22-2013, 07:54 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
After Liles goes another 30 games in the press box?

You need to consider this, the guy is losing value by the day.
Compliance buyout. I don't care.

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02-22-2013, 07:54 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
So... which Toronto d-men wont cost teams 1st round picks ++?
How about anyone not named Phaneuf, Gardiner or Rielly? Don't pretend anything differently was said..

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02-22-2013, 07:56 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
How are we supposed to know? All I know is that,

5.25 Lupul
5.5 Grabo
4.5 Komi
6.5 Dion
3.8 Liles

Count me as someone who's hoping to see this list get smaller.
Again I ask, what's the point of clearing cap space?

It's to get better players... but right now, cap space isn't what's stopping the Leafs from getting better players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
So... which Toronto d-men wont cost teams 1st round picks ++?
Liles, Komisarek, Holzer, Fraser, Franson, Kostka... just something that makes our team better.

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02-22-2013, 07:57 PM
  #132
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Compliance buyout. I don't care.
You value not giving Carolina a bottom pairing marginal dman that can't play defense over a 2nd round pick?

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02-22-2013, 07:58 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Again I ask, what's the point of clearing cap space?

It's to get better players... but right now, cap space isn't what's stopping the Leafs from getting better players.
Yeah well sure, but 9 million in the pressbox in non-expiring contracts is a red flag for any team.

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02-22-2013, 07:58 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
You value not giving Carolina a bottom pairing marginal dman that can't play defense over a 2nd round pick?
I don't think his value is going to change from a 2nd round pick to nothing in 3 months, and I don't have that much interest in helping out other Eastern Conference teams while we might be in our first playoff race in forever.

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02-22-2013, 07:59 PM
  #135
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Personally have no interest at all in trading gunnarsson. He has looked so solid at times and I worry we trade him now for an irrelevant pick and he gets healthy in the next year and becomes the great dman he was projected be last season.

Liles can leave for whatever we can get for him. He might be quick on the rush but his defensive play leaves so much to be desired - no leadership, small size. He doesn't do anything really well for me to warrant the salary he makes. I would be ecstatic with a 2nd for him. Same return would be amazing for Komi although more likely a 4th.

Franson is turning into a BEAST - going nowhere.

Kostka and Holzer are doing just fine. Just think about who they are keeping out of our line-up with how little experience they have.

Gardiner can stay in the AHL for the rest of the year IMO unless we are desperate for him to come up. The patience we showed with Kadri when everyone was calling him a bust (including our own idiot fans) will pay such dividends in the next couple of years when he can fulfill his potential. Same with Reilly of course.

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02-22-2013, 08:00 PM
  #136
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Yeah well sure, but 9 million in the pressbox in non-expiring contracts is a red flag for any team.
Not really.

Komisarek can be bought out, Liles can be moved at another time when it is in our team's best interest to do so.

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02-22-2013, 08:00 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I don't think his value is going to change from a 2nd round pick to nothing in 3 months, and I don't have that much interest in helping out other Eastern Conference teams while we might be in our first playoff race in forever.
When you aren't playing? I don't think there's any doubt.

You're right though, maybe we're not that same team that's looking at compiling picks and praying that one of them turns into something we can plug in.

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02-22-2013, 08:01 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
How about anyone not named Phaneuf, Gardiner or Rielly? Don't pretend anything differently was said..
Quote:
just don't see any prospects in Carolina's system worth them would have to be a player or 1st
Quote:
If we could get 2 first one for each the that make for a very interesting draft considering Mac will be dealt as well and would get a 2nd for sure
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Gunnarsson for a 1st.
Macarthur for a 2nd.
Just a smattering.

I thought the point was the Leafs had to move a d-man out?

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02-22-2013, 08:03 PM
  #139
Anth93
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Just a smattering.

I thought the point was the Leafs had to move a d-man out?
Gunnarsson is worth a 1st. You're saying 1st ++ as if somebody expects that.

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02-22-2013, 08:05 PM
  #140
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When you aren't playing? I don't think there's any doubt.

You're right though, maybe we're not that same team that's looking at compiling picks and praying that one of them turns into something we can plug in.
I'd go for the pick and I'm all for trading Liles, I'd just look to do it in the West where we get the asset we want, clear the money and also not help Carolina out.

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02-22-2013, 08:06 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Again I ask, what's the point of clearing cap space?

It's to get better players... but right now, cap space isn't what's stopping the Leafs from getting better players.



Liles, Komisarek, Holzer, Fraser, Franson, Kostka... just something that makes our team better.
Trading out Liles prior to the deadline makes sense because as opposed to trying to move in the off-season.

His value will be higher because teams get desperate to try and make the playoffs, have injuries and don't have the luxury of hoping young player/project player X will stay perform well.

Toronto needs to line itself up to have cap room in the off-season and it starts around the trade deadline.

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02-22-2013, 08:11 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Trading out Liles prior to the deadline makes sense because as opposed to trying to move in the off-season.

His value will be higher because teams get desperate to try and make the playoffs, have injuries and don't have the luxury of hoping young player/project player X will stay perform well.

Toronto needs to line itself up to have cap room in the off-season and it starts around the trade deadline.
Toronto needs to line itself up to win hockey games and make the playoffs.

At the deadline, if he's firmly out of the lineup, then we should consider moving him for picks. But, until that happens, depth is not a bad thing.

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02-22-2013, 08:20 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
So... which Toronto d-men wont cost teams 1st round picks ++?
Komisarik won't cost much.

Liles won't cost a first but might take a prospect. He's a decent choice for a team that is sound defensively and needs a puck mover.

Gunnarson is young, steady and eats lots of minutes. He's not overly phisical but has size and does well along the boards. I doubt he moves for anything less than a 1st.

Kosta is intriguing. 26 year old career minor leaguer -- albeit a star in the minors at almost a ppg as a dman. Playing BIG minutes in T.O. on a winning club -- is a UFA at years end. I have no idea what his value is.

Phaneuf, Gardiner, Reilly, won't go anywhere. I also doubt Fraser and Franson will since they are playing so well right now. Ditto Holzer.

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02-22-2013, 08:20 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Toronto needs to line itself up to win hockey games and make the playoffs.

At the deadline, if he's firmly out of the lineup, then we should consider moving him for picks. But, until that happens, depth is not a bad thing.
We've got Gardiner toiling in the AHL ready to go.

Even if we loss Liles we've got depth.

Liles is a greater asset now than the off-season and Toronto isn't a legit contender yet.

Burke made the mistake of not trading CMac last deadline when he has peak trade value because we were a borderline playoff team. Now the Leafs wouldn't get nearly as much. I don't expect Nonis to make that same mistake with Liles.

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02-22-2013, 08:22 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Just a smattering.

I thought the point was the Leafs had to move a d-man out?
They have Liles and Komi sitting out, even though both have played well this year. Komi only two games but both solid -- he hurt his eye and lost his spot. Plus they want to clear a spot for Gardiner. So that's 3 extra dmen.

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02-22-2013, 08:24 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
We've got Gardiner toiling in the AHL ready to go.

Even if we loss Liles we've got depth.

Liles is a greater asset now than the off-season and Toronto isn't a legit contender yet.

Burke made the mistake of not trading CMac last deadline when he has peak trade value because we were a borderline playoff team. Now the Leafs wouldn't get nearly as much. I don't expect Nonis to make that same mistake with Liles.
Yeah we do. It means that even if Kostka, Franson and Liles all get hurt, we've got a guy who can step up and put up points from the blueline. It's a good thing.

Like I said, if come deadline time, we're fairly certain that Liles wouldn't be playing, then we can consider moving him for a pick. But, moving him a little bit more than 1/3 of the way into the season, without improving another area of the team, is just asking for trouble. It's just not the type of move that a contending team (what we aspire to be) makes.

Maybe the case can be made for something around Dan Ellis and JML, giving the Leafs a stated need.

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02-22-2013, 10:06 PM
  #147
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He's some numbers for you --

Leafs are 7-4 since he's been called up. 7-3 since he started to get time with Phaneuf.

Prior to his arrival Dion was a -6 paired with Kosta. In the games since Dion is even. Dion had 1 point in his first 8 games. 8 points in his last 10 paired with Holzer.

Fact: Dion plays much better paired with a big physical defender, just like he played his best hockey with Aulie.

I understand Corsi is the know all stat and trumps winning but lets pretend winning is important for a sec and we can live with a poor Corsi.

One other number for you -- 1.81 -- that's the Leafs goals against in the games Holzer has played.

So if it ain;t broke, lets find someone to blame and break it.


Great post!

Holzer has looked good, so have Koska, Fraser, Franson, and Phanuef - Gunnar just needs time to get his legs back. I'm sure that Liles and Komisarek are both available for the right price, but why are we shopping a third of our team in this thread to Carolina? Do most Leafs fans not realize that we're also competing for a playoff spot? Good teams are built on depth - not the number of 2nd round draft picks they have in the upcoming draft.

For clarity: the "right price" would be a roster player on a reasonable contract that improves an area of our roster that is need of improvement.

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02-22-2013, 10:12 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Carl Gunnarsson is brutal... even when healthy. Liles is far, far, far better than him in pretty much every aspect
must not watch leaf games

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02-22-2013, 10:24 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
After Liles goes another 30 games in the press box?

You need to consider this, the guy is losing value by the day.
that just won't happen

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02-22-2013, 10:33 PM
  #150
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If the Hurricanes want a steady, defensive Top 4 D-man, Gunnarsson and Kostka would be the Leafs' best options to offer.

Something like...

Gunnarrsson + B Prospect/2nd round pick for Victor Rask + 3rd round pick?

Or Kostka instead of Gunnarsson?

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