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Trade Rumours and Proposals: Part XXXV

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Old
02-22-2013, 08:50 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Steve Downie has become a really underrated player.
He has a pretty good set of skill for a physical player. I was a bit surprised when Tampa traded him. A player like that is pretty hard to come by.

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02-22-2013, 08:51 PM
  #177
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Does Colorado need a goalie or are they set with Varlamov & Giguere? I would think they would like to replace Giguere at some point but I don`t know if they have a goalie in the system that is NHL ready.

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02-22-2013, 08:52 PM
  #178
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Given our depth at defence right now I'd trade Cowen for O'Reilly. What's more valuable a 50+ point selke nominated centre or a 20 point shut down defenceman (who is very good at what he does). I think in most cases people would take the centre.

I don't think the organization does it especially after being so patient with Cowen and considering how good he looked last year, but the value is there.

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02-22-2013, 08:52 PM
  #179
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Somehow I never feel confident in what MAK says.

For ROR, the fans seem to want Wiercioch and one of Zibanejad/Silfverberg, and like us they don't know whether they want the younger Zibanejad or the older but better Silfverberg.

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02-22-2013, 08:53 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Given our depth at defence right now I'd trade Cowen for O'Reilly. What's more valuable a 50+ point selke nominated centre or a 20 point shut down defenceman (who is very good at what he does). I think in most cases people would take the centre.

I don't think the organization does it especially after being so patient with Cowen and considering how good he looked last year, but the value is there.
Cowen has more growing room than OReilly. Simply because of the positions they play and their NHL experience. I think Murray really nailed it when he said it takes 3 years for a player to figure out their place in the league. Even moreso with DMen.

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02-22-2013, 08:56 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Given our depth at defence right now I'd trade Cowen for O'Reilly. What's more valuable a 50+ point selke nominated centre or a 20 point shut down defenceman (who is very good at what he does). I think in most cases people would take the centre.

I don't think the organization does it especially after being so patient with Cowen and considering how good he looked last year, but the value is there.
You underrate Cowen. He's far more than a 20 point shutdown defender. He's a top pairing D who'll put up closer to 35 points than 20 most years with limited power play time. Cowen is untouchable, far more valuable than what O'Reilly can bring to this team.

JC is right on my untouchables just behind Karlsson and Turris. EDIT: followed by Lehner.

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02-22-2013, 08:58 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
Cowen has more growing room than OReilly. Simply because of the positions they play and their NHL experience. I think Murray really nailed it when he said it takes 3 years for a player to figure out their place in the league. Even moreso with DMen.
I agree. But the thing is that O'Reilly and Cowen are the same age, and O'Reilly already put up a very good season as a centre and still has room to grow. If he becomes a 60 point Selke level centre it's really hard to argue with that value.

With guys like Borowiecki, Gryba, Wierchioch, Wikstrand, Claesson and free agents it would be a lot easier to find someone to fill Cowen's shoes (Methot already has and more) than to find someone that could bring what O'Reilly does.

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02-22-2013, 08:58 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Given our depth at defence right now I'd trade Cowen for O'Reilly. What's more valuable a 50+ point selke nominated centre or a 20 point shut down defenceman (who is very good at what he does). I think in most cases people would take the centre.

I don't think the organization does it especially after being so patient with Cowen and considering how good he looked last year, but the value is there.
u crazy.

i'd be willing to give them zib and maybe a 3rd. but that's it.

anyone who suggests trading michalek for ror is insane as well. we lack top 6 wingers as it is.

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02-22-2013, 08:59 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
You underrate Cowen. He's far more than a 20 point shutdown defender. He's a top pairing D who'll put up closer to 35 points than 20 most years with limited power play time. Cowen is untouchable, far more valuable than what O'Reilly can bring to this team.

JC is right on my untouchables just behind Karlsson and Turris.
I think we find different value in what Cowen brings then. Shutdown defencemen are much easier to find than what O'Reilly brings to the table IMO.

Anyway I'm not suggesting we do it I'm just saying the value is there. I don't think that gets done. The only way I see ROR happening is some combination of Zibanejad and/or Wierchioch and a pick/prospect.

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02-22-2013, 09:01 PM
  #185
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I think we find different value in what Cowen brings then. Shutdown defencemen are much easier to find than what O'Reilly brings to the table IMO.
the difference between cowen and the d you mentioned is far greater (potentially) than the difference between turris and ror.

i've concluded you are in love with ror, and your love has blinded you.

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02-22-2013, 09:03 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by God Says No View Post
the difference between cowen and the d you mentioned is far greater (potentially) than the difference between turris and ror.

i've concluded you are in love with ror, and your love has blinded you.
Apparently I'm in love with any player that I think is talented, or more talented than a player that we have.

Anyway, I'm fine with not getting ROR I just think that it would make our team better if we did get him.

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02-22-2013, 09:06 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I agree. But the thing is that O'Reilly and Cowen are the same age, and O'Reilly already put up a very good season as a centre and still has room to grow. If he becomes a 60 point Selke level centre it's really hard to argue with that value.

With guys like Borowiecki, Gryba, Wierchioch, Wikstrand, Claesson and free agents it would be a lot easier to find someone to fill Cowen's shoes (Methot already has and more) than to find someone that could bring what O'Reilly does.
I completely disagree.

First off, O'Reilly's going to struggle to ever put up 60 on this team. He's not going to get the PP time to do it. He'd be used a lot more on the PK.

A top pairing 22+ minute a night D like Cowen is far more valuable in my eyes than a guy who might only be a 3rd line center on the team. Even if he is the the 2nd line center, I want that top pairing D.

None of the guys you mentioned can bring what Cowen brings or replace him. There's no one in the system or anyone who will ever hit free agency who can bring his set of tools. Pretty much the definition of a keeper. Karlsson, Cowen and Methot are great pieces to start our cup calibre D. Still need 3 more pieces, maybe 2. Let's not increase that number. I'd rather add more quality D than another center.

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02-22-2013, 09:08 PM
  #188
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ROR is an elite 2nd line center right now. It wasn't just 1 good season. It was a breakout season.
Throwing out words like elite and breakout to describe ROR's past season is just a little premature without looking a little deeper.

In 2011-12 he scored 13 goals and has 13 assists playing 74 games primarily as the third line center.

In 2012-13 he scored 18 goals and 37 assists playing 81 games primarily on the first line, with top PP minutes.

5 more goals and 24 more assists, however he also had 400 more minutes on the ice including 145 more on the PP. There is also no question he played with more offensively skilled linemates.

So to claim all the increase in production is ROR's growth as a player is not necessarily factual.

I am not suggesting ROR isn't a good young player with potential, just suggesting some of the claims be tempered a little.


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02-22-2013, 09:09 PM
  #189
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I think we find different value in what Cowen brings then. Shutdown defencemen are much easier to find than what O'Reilly brings to the table IMO.

Anyway I'm not suggesting we do it I'm just saying the value is there. I don't think that gets done. The only way I see ROR happening is some combination of Zibanejad and/or Wierchioch and a pick/prospect.
'Shut down defenseman' doesn't really do Cowen justice. More like top pairing physical D with a massive point shot and elite skating. These guys are perhaps the rarest of animals in the NHL. He has #1 potential.

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02-22-2013, 09:11 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
'Shut down defenseman' doesn't really do Cowen justice. More like top pairing physical D with a massive point shot and elite skating. These guys are perhaps the rarest of animals in the NHL. He has #1 potential.
Cowen has the potential to be another Shea Weber. Whether he reaches that potential remains to be seen, but he still has that potential. You are correct in your statment, Cowen isn't simply a "shutdown d man".

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02-22-2013, 09:13 PM
  #191
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Wow is Cowen underrated. He is much, MUCH more than a shutdown defense man. He has a bullet of a shot, he is intimidating as ****, can handle the puck and amazing skating ability for a guy his size.

I have full confidence when I say I expect to see him hit 40+ points in his prime alongside Karlsson while creating **** on defense. For the love of God, he got 20 points in his rookie year, lmao.

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02-22-2013, 09:14 PM
  #192
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Cowen has the potential to be another Shea Weber. Whether he reaches that potential remains to be seen, but he still has that potential. You are correct in your statment, Cowen isn't simply a "shutdown d man".
I'd say closer to Brent Seabrook than Weber. Weber far more offensively minded. Cowen-Karlsson could be an even better version of Keith-Seabrook. That's scary for the Eastern conference.

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02-22-2013, 09:16 PM
  #193
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I like Cowen a lot; I don't want to trade him. I do however think the value is there as I think a Shea Weber type is a bit optimistic. I think Cowen will be similar to Methot for a long time. Very solid in his own end, a bit better of a skater but can chip in a bit more offensively. It's a great player to have on your team, but I value a 50 - 60 point selke centre higher personally. That's all.

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02-22-2013, 09:19 PM
  #194
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Apparently I'm in love with any player that I think is talented, or more talented than a player that we have.

Anyway, I'm fine with not getting ROR I just think that it would make our team better if we did get him.
I appreciate this is what you are trying to do.

However it seems you are trivializing to an extent the loss of players like Wiercoich, Zibby and Cowen or converting Turris to the wing, while building up the benefits of acquiring ROR.

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02-22-2013, 09:22 PM
  #195
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Ottawa doesn't need a defensive minded center. Turris, Spezza and Smith all bring great two way games. Let's pick up a guy more known for his finishing than defensive presence.

I'm starting to think that this team could be one big time goal scorer away from being a legit contender next season. We'll probably need a quality top 4 vet as well but who knows where Wiercioch and Gryba could be at by next training camp. These guys are getting some invaluable experience right now.

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02-22-2013, 09:23 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I like Cowen a lot; I don't want to trade him. I do however think the value is there as I think a Shea Weber type is a bit optimistic. I think Cowen will be similar to Methot for a long time. Very solid in his own end, a bit better of a skater but can chip in a bit more offensively. It's a great player to have on your team, but I value a 50 - 60 point selke centre higher personally. That's all.
LOL, Number 1 defenseman>Any type of center.

If Karlsson wasn't on this team, Cowen would be the hero on defense. People will understand the value of Cowen to this team when he comes back next year.

Cowen>Methot NOW let alone a couple years from now.

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02-22-2013, 09:23 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I like Cowen a lot; I don't want to trade him. I do however think the value is there as I think a Shea Weber type is a bit optimistic. I think Cowen will be similar to Methot for a long time. Very solid in his own end, a bit better of a skater but can chip in a bit more offensively. It's a great player to have on your team, but I value a 50 - 60 point selke centre higher personally. That's all.
Cowen is better than Methot now, and Sens fans got a glimpse of how good he is going to be last season and with his start in the AHL this season.

It was like a man playing with boys.

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02-22-2013, 09:25 PM
  #198
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I'd say closer to Brent Seabrook than Weber. Weber far more offensively minded. Cowen-Karlsson could be an even better version of Keith-Seabrook. That's scary for the Eastern conference.
Cowen seems more physical than Seabrook IMO. I haven't seen much of Seasbrook's play though. Am I correct in this assessment?

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02-22-2013, 09:25 PM
  #199
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Cowen made Rundblad expendable.

Kalrsson Methot
Cowen xxx
xxx xxx

is a lot better than

Karlsson Methot
xxx xxx
xxx xxx

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02-22-2013, 09:27 PM
  #200
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Cowen is better than Methot now, and Sens fans got a glimpse of how good he is going to be last season and with his start in the AHL. It was like a man playing with boys.
It was shocking how much stronger he was than most NHLers as a 20 year old. He is going to be a monster out there as he gets older and stronger.

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