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Do you fire Laviolette? (Philadelphia Daily News article dated March 12, 2013)

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02-22-2013, 08:44 AM
  #701
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Originally Posted by PHI Flyers10 View Post
Wasn't Tocchet pretty bad in Tampa though?
The team didn't do well but that doesn't mean he wasn't a good coach. Stamkos wasn't the player he is today and they didn't have the depth or goaltending they have gotten recently (Roloson was really good for them in the playoffs too so it's not just this year).

Simply put the flyers have the personnel whereas the Lightning didn't

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02-22-2013, 12:09 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by flyingsouth View Post
It seems to be the only thing he's gotten fired up over so far this year.

When I saw Lavy get fired up during the Pens game I thought that maybe he was finally waking up and might go back to being the motivator he had been for the team, but he seemed to go right back to the mildly indifferent, kinda scared look he's had for most of the year against the Panthers...
I don't mind him toning it down. You can't be 100mph all the time, you burn out, and that well runs dry with players. You can only beat the **** out of so many coke machines. Phil Jackson was a fantastic coach and motivator, but he wasn't constantly screaming. I hope this is a sign of him picking up a scalpel in lieu of a clever, as opposed to checking out or disinvesting.

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02-22-2013, 03:23 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
The team didn't do well but that doesn't mean he wasn't a good coach. Stamkos wasn't the player he is today and they didn't have the depth or goaltending they have gotten recently (Roloson was really good for them in the playoffs too so it's not just this year).

Simply put the flyers have the personnel whereas the Lightning didn't
It should also be mentioned that under Tocchet's watch, Stamkos was given a chance to play and he started to light it up in the second half of his rookie season. Barry Melrose nearly ruined Stamkos and Rick Tocchet saved his career. I'd be more than willing to give Tocchet a chance here.

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02-22-2013, 04:08 PM
  #704
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I think if there was a mutual desire for Tocchet to be coaching, he would be on the bench already as an assistant.

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02-22-2013, 04:10 PM
  #705
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I think if there was a mutual desire for Tocchet to be coaching, he would be on the bench already as an assistant.
Why? You don't put a guy on the bench for ***** and giggles.

(No... you put him as the "eye in the sky")

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02-22-2013, 04:24 PM
  #706
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Lavy seemed like he was getting better tactically this season...and then he started Bryz against Florida. Why?

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02-22-2013, 04:30 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
Lavy seemed like he was getting better tactically this season...and then he started Bryz against Florida. Why?
I guaruntee you there is nothing in Laviolette's approach to coaching that has changed so drastically over the last year that we're going to notice much change in his tactics. He looks like the same guy coaching the same system to me.

As for Bryz against Florida, I think he knew the team was going to be tired (game, but tired nonetheless) and just wanted to get a streak going, 3 wins in a row. And Boucher doesn't give you a great chance to do that there. Looking back with Bryz performing how he did it looks silly, but the thinking is defensible, presuming that was his thinking.

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02-22-2013, 04:33 PM
  #708
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I thought the NBC guys were over-hyping him during that Pens game. They made him out to be some sort of tactical supergenius. His chief tactic was "play with intensity, make sure Sean is on the ice with Malkin." The NBC guys acted like he had to have been some sort of a mastermind to defeat their mighty Pens.

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02-22-2013, 06:47 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I thought the NBC guys were over-hyping him during that Pens game. They made him out to be some sort of tactical supergenius. His chief tactic was "play with intensity, make sure Sean is on the ice with Malkin." The NBC guys acted like he had to have been some sort of a mastermind to defeat their mighty Pens.
i know right. flyers win cause they hit, frustrate the crap out of the pens and get some timely goal scoring nothing more really.

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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
It should also be mentioned that under Tocchet's watch, Stamkos was given a chance to play and he started to light it up in the second half of his rookie season. Barry Melrose nearly ruined Stamkos and Rick Tocchet saved his career. I'd be more than willing to give Tocchet a chance here.
He also put Stamkos and St. Louis together which kinda seems like a no-brainer now but Melrose didn't think of it. I know that kinda goes hand in hand with what you were saying but I'm curious as to what he would do with the Flyers roster and Giroux.

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02-22-2013, 08:52 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
The team didn't do well but that doesn't mean he wasn't a good coach. Stamkos wasn't the player he is today and they didn't have the depth or goaltending they have gotten recently (Roloson was really good for them in the playoffs too so it's not just this year).

Simply put the flyers have the personnel whereas the Lightning didn't
What's Tocchet's resume for coaching otherwise? Just curious. I'm a fan of his as a player but I'm not sure how I feel about Philly staying within the organization all the time with their hirings.

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02-22-2013, 09:47 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by PHI Flyers10 View Post
What's Tocchet's resume for coaching otherwise? Just curious. I'm a fan of his as a player but I'm not sure how I feel about Philly staying within the organization all the time with their hirings.
I think Tocchet was an assistant coach on Gretzky's staff in Phoenix.

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02-22-2013, 10:02 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
I think Tocchet was an assistant coach on Gretzky's staff in Phoenix.
No, just Janet's bookie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus
I thought the NBC guys were over-hyping him during that Pens game. They made him out to be some sort of tactical supergenius. His chief tactic was "play with intensity, make sure Sean is on the ice with Malkin." The NBC guys acted like he had to have been some sort of a mastermind to defeat their mighty Pens.

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02-22-2013, 11:12 PM
  #713
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Ruff is available now, lol

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02-23-2013, 02:14 AM
  #714
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No, just Janet's bookie.



Wow. There's something I never thought I'd see. My parents own that game; every time I asked to play it neither wanted to bother.

On a more OT note, they also had this game, which is infinitely better than Battleship:


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02-26-2013, 11:28 AM
  #715
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After last night's putrid effort I am reconsidering and thinking he should be fired.

First, lack of hustle along the boards at both ends for most of the game.

Motivation. Coaching.

Second, missed passes to the point, miscommunicating and going offside, etc.

Execution. Practice. Coaching.

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02-26-2013, 11:41 AM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Unstable View Post
After last night's putrid effort I am reconsidering and thinking he should be fired.

First, lack of hustle along the boards at both ends for most of the game.

Motivation. Coaching.

Second, missed passes to the point, miscommunicating and going offside, etc.

Execution. Practice. Coaching.
at the end of the day all these coming out flat games are directly on the coach at this point.

if its a ongoing issue and he cant fix it, he needs to go.

if he were visbily benching players no matter their star power for **** effort i'd be more forgiving cuz hed be trying to work with what he has. but i see none of that.

its almost like Lavi is in full coast mode till the noose now..

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02-26-2013, 11:47 AM
  #717
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This team needs more Z and Wellwood and less Fedetenko, Knuble. Notice how we get rid of the fast energy guys and replace them with aging vets. DO a real shake-up. BENCH BRIERE. That will send a message to the players!

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02-26-2013, 11:50 AM
  #718
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
This team needs more Z and Wellwood and less Fedetenko, Knuble. Notice how we get rid of the fast energy guys and replace them with aging vets. DO a real shake-up. BENCH BRIERE. That will send a message to the players!
I agree with the Wellwood and Zolnierczyk thing.

Rinaldo has been invisible, useless, or a negative force in recent games as well.

I don't think benching Briere is wise either. I recommend trading him.

We've gone from a fast team to a slow team far too quickly.

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02-26-2013, 11:59 AM
  #719
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Originally Posted by Unstable View Post
After last night's putrid effort I am reconsidering and thinking he should be fired.

First, lack of hustle along the boards at both ends for most of the game.

Motivation. Coaching.

Second, missed passes to the point, miscommunicating and going offside, etc.

Execution. Practice. Coaching.
Lack of hustle, motivation, and focus could also be blamed on the players. NHL players shouldn't need some master motivator to get them ready to play a full sixty minutes a night. I don't buy that being Lavy's fault for a second. If you want to fire him because of the downfalls of his system and the personnel not being suited to it, then fine. But let's not act like Lavy should have to turn into Herb Brooks before the Soviet game every night just to get these guys to play. Focus, energy, and motivation is all about how guys prepare themselves leading up to game time.

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02-26-2013, 12:00 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
This team needs more Z and Wellwood and less Fedetenko, Knuble. Notice how we get rid of the fast energy guys and replace them with aging vets. DO a real shake-up. BENCH BRIERE. That will send a message to the players!
Agreed. At this point, Harry Z and Rinaldo are both just as positionally sound as Knuble and Feds. They also have the speed to really dictate the play in all three zones.

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02-26-2013, 12:13 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I agree with the Wellwood and Zolnierczyk thing.

Rinaldo has been invisible, useless, or a negative force in recent games as well.

I don't think benching Briere is wise either. I recommend trading him.

We've gone from a fast team to a slow team far too quickly.
Trading Briere...I would do if he would waive his NMC.

Disagree on Rinado. He drew a penalty last night even. And yes...we are a slow team now. And playing an uptempo game makes no sense when you dress Knuble

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02-26-2013, 12:30 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Lack of hustle, motivation, and focus could also be blamed on the players. NHL players shouldn't need some master motivator to get them ready to play a full sixty minutes a night. I don't buy that being Lavy's fault for a second. If you want to fire him because of the downfalls of his system and the personnel not being suited to it, then fine. But let's not act like Lavy should have to turn into Herb Brooks before the Soviet game every night just to get these guys to play. Focus, energy, and motivation is all about how guys prepare themselves leading up to game time.
This is all true, but that's the unfairness of being a manager/coach: your performance is based on what your underlings are accomplishing. Plus, the old adage about firing the coach because you can't fire the team rings true.

The slow starts and sub-60 minute (sub-30 too often!) efforts have become epidemic over the past few years. Something has to be done to show that the current situation is unacceptable. I'd like to see some benchings as the first step, even waiving Knuble, but Laviolette has got to know that he's on borrowed time.

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02-26-2013, 12:33 PM
  #723
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Rinaldo has been fine in his role. he does his job. he hits everything, gets under peoples skin and can draw penalties.
Im not exactly one of his biggest supporters either.

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02-26-2013, 01:02 PM
  #724
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This is all true, but that's the unfairness of being a manager/coach: your performance is based on what your underlings are accomplishing. Plus, the old adage about firing the coach because you can't fire the team rings true.

The slow starts and sub-60 minute (sub-30 too often!) efforts have become epidemic over the past few years. Something has to be done to show that the current situation is unacceptable. I'd like to see some benchings as the first step, even waiving Knuble, but Laviolette has got to know that he's on borrowed time.
True enough. I'm pretty neutral on Lavy honestly, but he's been dealt a pretty ****** hand this year. The team isn't put together all that well to excel in his system, and they're incredibly young in some very key spots. With that youth comes inconsistency and mental errors. Obviously he should adjust, which I think he's tried, but you can't ask a coach to completely reinvent himself in one offseason and change the plans that he's used in three places (getting a cup in one). That's just as much on Homer as it is on him.

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02-26-2013, 01:39 PM
  #725
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True enough. I'm pretty neutral on Lavy honestly, but he's been dealt a pretty ****** hand this year. The team isn't put together all that well to excel in his system, and they're incredibly young in some very key spots. With that youth comes inconsistency and mental errors. Obviously he should adjust, which I think he's tried, but you can't ask a coach to completely reinvent himself in one offseason and change the plans that he's used in three places (getting a cup in one). That's just as much on Homer as it is on him.
That's a terrible argument. You tweak/adapt your system to get results with what you have. This isn't the blue jackets or flames, there are plenty of quality players that just aren't performing. And I absolutely blame the terrible starts on Laviolette cause this has been a problem since he was coach. When Richards was here and the team played like crap (not this bad but not a full 60 most games either) people were saying how we wasn't a good captain or that there was a problem in the locker room with Pronger or a relationship problem with the coach. Since the problem started (when Lavy was hired) the majority of the team has changed. Who is left? Hartnell, G, Briere, Kimmo, Coburn and Mez. You really think one of them is the problem or it just so happens that the guys who wouldn't come out hard where eventually shipped out or let go were replaced with guys who don't play a full 60/are unmotivated most nights? Laviolette is the common denominator

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