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2013 Line Combos Thread II

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Old
02-23-2013, 12:34 AM
  #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beegoalie View Post
Coyle can cycle coyle can hold onto the puck blah blah blah and what good does that do?? How many points has he put up in the AHL and the NHL playing with elite players and on the PP. What has he done in his time here.

Zero Points.

Until he can outproduce Heatley's 26 goals(which for him is low) then he is not a good replacement for Heatley on the top line.
He isn't on pace for 26 goals considering he only has 1 in his past 11 and 26 may be a low total for him but it is fitting right into the trend of Dany Heatleys career which is falling right off a cliff. Dany will come off of that top line if he continues to produce at the pace he is on right now.

I hope he does pick it up, i would be one very happy Wild fan if he does cause it is crucial for this team that he does. I want to be wrong about Heatley but i don't think i am.

As to the Brunette argument about him being slow, Andrew Brunette didn't stand around watching others do the hard stuff, he got his hands dirty.

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02-23-2013, 12:44 AM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Randy BoBandy View Post
Charlie Coyle is better than Dany Heatley, I'm saying it. Name one thing that Heatley has that Coyle doesn't besides more time with the top line. Heater went 8 games without a point by the way if your saying Coyle is nothing because he didn't score in 5.

Skating: Coyle it is obvious
Shot: I have yet to see this great Dany Heatley shot, very overrated. So even with slight edge to Heater
Passing: Even, pretty close as far as this year, given Heater can't hold onto the puck long enough to make a pass.
Puck Possession: Coyle
Stick skills: Coyle. Heater cannot dangle to save his life.
Defensively: Coyle

When Heatley isn't one foot away from the goalie on the PP he is completely useless. He doesn't create chances he waits for his linemates to do so then sit patiently for a garbage goal, which rarely happens given his limited mobility and overall suckiness. Given the same amount of time with the top line I would argue Coyle could have just as many points and probably more. 5 goals aint **** for the powerplay time Heater gets in front of the net.
Heatley has a track record in the NHL that is proven enough that you wouldn't expect 8 game scoreless streaks very often. He's earned himself the benefit of the doubt.

Coyle has yet to record a single point in the NHL period. He has yet to earn anything at the NHL level.

That is why Heatley went back to the top line and Coyle was sent to Houston, and it's why Heatley will likely remain on the top line while Coyle likely plays on the 3rd line.

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02-23-2013, 12:46 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
Coyles strength in offense is too similar to Parise's.
Most of what you post makes snese but this is a real clinker. Their size and styles are very dissimilar. As in Seasme Street - what's different? Other than size, style, talent, experience, paycheck...

Coyle is much more similar as a player to Heatley than he is to Parise.

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02-23-2013, 12:52 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
Most of what you post makes snese but this is a real clinker. Their size and styles are very dissimilar. As in Seasme Street - what's different? Other than size, style, talent, experience, paycheck...

Coyle is much more similar as a player to Heatley than he is to Parise.
Not at all. Coyle is more of a cycler, like Parise and Koivu. Heatley is more of a "get lost in the slot" type of guy who goes straight to the net.

You don't want all 3 guys doing the same thing, as then you end up with 3 guys along the boards and nobody in the slot or in the crease to pass to.

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02-23-2013, 12:57 AM
  #430
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Why are we talking like Coyle is the only option to move into that line?

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02-23-2013, 12:59 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Blizzard6411 View Post
Why are we talking like Coyle is the only option to move into that line?
Agree... Seto is a much better option to move to that line than Coyle right now.

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02-23-2013, 01:04 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Randy BoBandy View Post
Charlie Coyle is better than Dany Heatley, I'm saying it.


We've officially gone off the deep end here at HockeysFuture Mn Wild.

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02-23-2013, 01:05 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
Heatley has a track record in the NHL that is proven enough that you wouldn't expect 8 game scoreless streaks very often. He's earned himself the benefit of the doubt.

Coyle has yet to record a single point in the NHL period. He has yet to earn anything at the NHL level.

That is why Heatley went back to the top line and Coyle was sent to Houston, and it's why Heatley will likely remain on the top line while Coyle likely plays on the 3rd line.

Thankfully another poster with some brains..

Not sure why a few posters can't figure out this as well.

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02-23-2013, 01:07 AM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
Most of what you post makes snese but this is a real clinker. Their size and styles are very dissimilar. As in Seasme Street - what's different? Other than size, style, talent, experience, paycheck...

Coyle is much more similar as a player to Heatley than he is to Parise.
Not even close..if to compare to anyone you should compare Coyles game to Koivu's. Coyle plays nothing like Parise or Heatley.

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02-23-2013, 01:10 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Blizzard6411 View Post
He isn't on pace for 26 goals considering he only has 1 in his past 11 and 26 may be a low total for him but it is fitting right into the trend of Dany Heatleys career which is falling right off a cliff. Dany will come off of that top line if he continues to produce at the pace he is on right now.

I hope he does pick it up, i would be one very happy Wild fan if he does cause it is crucial for this team that he does. I want to be wrong about Heatley but i don't think i am.

As to the Brunette argument about him being slow, Andrew Brunette didn't stand around watching others do the hard stuff, he got his hands dirty.

The 26 goals is just an estimate of what he produces in a full season..to help get a feel for what he produces in a normal season.

The argument was that Coyle right now is not a 26 goal scorer in a full season. Heatley is.

As for your own opinion that he comes off the top line then who replaces him?? It will not be Coyle unless Coyle finds a way to produce. Setoguchi maybe. But it surely won't be someone will 0 Points just because he can cycle. That is absolutely ridiculous.

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02-23-2013, 01:28 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Beegoalie View Post
The 26 goals is just an estimate of what he produces in a full season..to help get a feel for what he produces in a normal season.

The argument was that Coyle right now is not a 26 goal scorer in a full season. Heatley is.

As for your own opinion that he comes off the top line then who replaces him?? It will not be Coyle unless Coyle finds a way to produce. Setoguchi maybe. But it surely won't be someone will 0 Points just because he can cycle. That is absolutely ridiculous.
Seto or Zucker. I am not solely focused on the player taking that spot equaling Heatleys totals (but it shouldnt be that hard for someone with a slight bit of talent) but also contributing to getting Parises numbers up as well because that is a part of this also.

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02-23-2013, 02:12 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Blizzard6411 View Post
Seto or Zucker. I am not solely focused on the player taking that spot equaling Heatleys totals (but it shouldnt be that hard for someone with a slight bit of talent) but also contributing to getting Parises numbers up as well because that is a part of this also.
Exactly. It doesn't matter if Heater gets a few garbage goals here and there, he contributes nothing to that line. He has nothing to do with defending then once we break it out he is no where to be found when bringing it through the neutral zone and forget dump chase Heater is still at the red line. So Koivu and Parise go down and bang bodies and try to collect the puck all the while Heater finally enters the zone and starts his usual floating in the slot waiting for the others to make a play. He brings the other two down, while they do all the work. He is a parasite leeching off his host.


Last edited by Randy BoBandy: 02-23-2013 at 02:19 AM.
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02-23-2013, 10:33 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Randy BoBandy View Post
Exactly. It doesn't matter if Heater gets a few garbage goals here and there, he contributes nothing to that line. He has nothing to do with defending then once we break it out he is no where to be found when bringing it through the neutral zone and forget dump chase Heater is still at the red line. So Koivu and Parise go down and bang bodies and try to collect the puck all the while Heater finally enters the zone and starts his usual floating in the slot waiting for the others to make a play. He brings the other two down, while they do all the work. He is a parasite leeching off his host.
As the 3rd guy into the zone...what you described Heater doing is relatively textbook. 3rd guy stays high...1)as a guy in the slot and able to receive passes 2) for defensive/offensive spacing purposes.


/dumb

Heater is not the problem on this team. Stop, just stop.

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02-23-2013, 10:50 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by TwInS1095 View Post
As the 3rd guy into the zone...what you described Heater doing is relatively textbook. 3rd guy stays high...1)as a guy in the slot and able to receive passes 2) for defensive/offensive spacing purposes.


/dumb

Heater is not the problem on this team. Stop, just stop.
Do you know anything about zone entry? A typical play is for the guy with the puck to go wide down the boards being the first entering the zone, then the second guy comes speeding down the slot pulling the defense away from the man with the puck as they have to respect the play to the slot. This is where Heater should be right behind inside the blue line ready for a drop pass/pass to the upper slot. He is never there, he is far behind the play and out of position. Then again we rarely hold onto the puck entering the offensive zone so we end up dumping it. I'm just saying, the same guy can't be the floating highman every forecheck, it is wearing down our elite two players who need that energy to create scoring chances.

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02-23-2013, 11:14 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Blizzard6411 View Post
Seto or Zucker. I am not solely focused on the player taking that spot equaling Heatleys totals (but it shouldnt be that hard for someone with a slight bit of talent) but also contributing to getting Parises numbers up as well because that is a part of this also.
Zucker's been playing LW so you're flopping him to the other side if he replaces Heatley.

Heatley is the weak link right now, I'd love to hear he's on his way to Pit. Give Coyle some time and he may be able to replace Heatley's goal production. But he'll immediately be better in other ways - like skating, aggressiveness, battling for pucks on the board, getting back on D...

I'm not saying throw Coyle back on the 1st Line but if you do, move Heatley down to play on the Brodz-PMB line and let the Speed Kills line alone for at least a few more games.


Last edited by Wildfish: 02-23-2013 at 11:20 AM.
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02-23-2013, 11:19 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by TwInS1095 View Post
Heater is not the problem on this team. Stop, just stop.
I disagree. IMO Heatley is a big part of the problem. His floating around not scoring is not helping the team. The 1st Line needs someone who is willing and able to do their fair share of the dirty work, the tough stuff. Right now its all Mikko and Parise, and if Parise or Mikko gets hurt this team will probably nosedive.

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02-23-2013, 11:40 AM
  #442
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I disagree. IMO Heatley is a big part of the problem. His floating around not scoring is not helping the team. The 1st Line needs someone who is willing and able to do their fair share of the dirty work, the tough stuff. Right now its all Mikko and Parise, and if Parise or Mikko gets hurt this team will probably nosedive.
As evidenced by Coyle getting NO points in the 3 or so games he played with the top line...no one we have in the AHL or on the Big club can do a better job than Heatley. Heatley is nowhere near what he once was, but he still plays his role decently well.

What you don't understand is that having 3 guys down low battling for pucks is not cohesive to scoring goals. First, if you get beat then the other team is going 3-2 or 4-2 down the ice. 2) Someone needs to float high/stay in front of the net/draw defenders/take up space in front of the net to open up spacing and also if you have all 3 guys cycling no one will be in front of the net too shoot. Unless you want to play a strictly perimeter game.

Heatley is not the problem. He may not be as good of a player as you want him too be, but he is not the reason the team isn't scoring.

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02-23-2013, 01:09 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by TwInS1095 View Post
As evidenced by Coyle getting NO points in the 3 or so games he played with the top line...no one we have in the AHL or on the Big club can do a better job than Heatley. Heatley is nowhere near what he once was, but he still plays his role decently well.

What you don't understand is that having 3 guys down low battling for pucks is not cohesive to scoring goals. First, if you get beat then the other team is going 3-2 or 4-2 down the ice. 2) Someone needs to float high/stay in front of the net/draw defenders/take up space in front of the net to open up spacing and also if you have all 3 guys cycling no one will be in front of the net too shoot. Unless you want to play a strictly perimeter game.

Heatley is not the problem. He may not be as good of a player as you want him too be, but he is not the reason the team isn't scoring.
I agree you can't have everyone down below the goaline fighting for the puck, but you can't always have the same two guys doing it. A simple forecheck scheme when the puck is put into the right corner is to have the first guy(F1) go in hard play the body and dislodge the puck with the second(F2) close behind to come pick it up and then F2 looks for the F3 high or goes behind the net or up the boards looking for a cycle or a play back to the defense. That is not a problem.

The problem lies in rotating when a the first forward comes in hard but is unable to make a play and the defenseman makes a pass to his partner in the other corner. This is where the F2 must go in hard and play the body on this man. Now F3 comes down and plays as the second guy coming in to dig out the puck looking for F1 who has rotated out high too take F3's original postion. This is how forechecking works plain and simple.

So you see the problem is that Heater doesn't have the ability to rotate and get into position quickly enough. He cannot move from the front of the net to the corner fast enough so we end up having Koivu and Parise running around like mad men losing all their energy.

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02-23-2013, 01:14 PM
  #444
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I would still try Setoguchi on the 1st line because of his handedness and finishing ability.

But then again, the 2nd line is working very well with Zucker-Cullen-Seto, and it would be insane to break them up... Hmm. Unless we replace Seto with Bouchard?

Parise-Koivu-Setoguchi
Zucker-Cullen-Bouchard
Heatley-Brodziak-Granlund/Coyle
Rupp-Konopka-Mitchell

Another option would be to send Granlund in the AHL if we don't want to use him in the 3rd/4th line and use Coyle instead. Or rotate them for a week or two, and let the one who performs better have the spot.

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02-23-2013, 01:16 PM
  #445
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I like the second line right now, they are working well and they are the only line we have that is legitimately fast. They are also able to score off the rush, something we haven't done this year.

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02-23-2013, 01:21 PM
  #446
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I like the second line right now, they are working well and they are the only line we have that is legitimately fast. They are also able to score off the rush, something we haven't done this year.
Heck yea! Cullen's about to go on one of those hot streaks I can just feel it.

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02-23-2013, 01:24 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by Puhis View Post
I would still try Setoguchi on the 1st line because of his handedness and finishing ability.

But then again, the 2nd line is working very well with Zucker-Cullen-Seto, and it would be insane to break them up... Hmm. Unless we replace Seto with Bouchard?

Parise-Koivu-Setoguchi
Zucker-Cullen-Bouchard
Heatley-Brodziak-Granlund/Coyle
Rupp-Konopka-Mitchell

Another option would be to send Granlund in the AHL if we don't want to use him in the 3rd/4th line and use Coyle instead. Or rotate them for a week or two, and let the one who performs better have the spot.
I like those lines, a lot.

Seto deserves a shot up there, and he might just be able to help us out more than the Pylon. Better balance as long as Seto tries hard.

Butch would aslo add some good cycling ability while maintaining the speed well enough on the second.

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02-23-2013, 02:18 PM
  #448
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There's simply no reason whatsoever to change anything in regards to the second line right now.

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02-23-2013, 02:18 PM
  #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
Most of what you post makes snese but this is a real clinker. Their size and styles are very dissimilar. As in Seasme Street - what's different? Other than size, style, talent, experience, paycheck...

Coyle is much more similar as a player to Heatley than he is to Parise.
how they score, is what i meant. if coyle is going to turn into a scorer, its going to be in the same area Parise scores, doing the same thing Parise does...hacking and whacking pucks. with a pretty low shooting % but lots of tries.

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02-23-2013, 03:47 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by TwInS1095 View Post
As evidenced by Coyle getting NO points in the 3 or so games he played with the top line...no one we have in the AHL or on the Big club can do a better job than Heatley. Heatley is nowhere near what he once was, but he still plays his role decently well.

What you don't understand is that having 3 guys down low battling for pucks is not cohesive to scoring goals. First, if you get beat then the other team is going 3-2 or 4-2 down the ice. 2) Someone needs to float high/stay in front of the net/draw defenders/take up space in front of the net to open up spacing and also if you have all 3 guys cycling no one will be in front of the net too shoot. Unless you want to play a strictly perimeter game.

Heatley is not the problem. He may not be as good of a player as you want him too be, but he is not the reason the team isn't scoring.

This.

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