HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Markov...coincidence

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-22-2013, 10:21 PM
  #51
zzoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 2,089
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
I just realized that Markov is the only D who still has not an Even Strength point.
Must admit that it's quite disappointing.
Wowww, really ??!?

zzoo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 10:22 PM
  #52
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,073
vCash: 500
Subban has great physical skills but he's not a Lidstrom as a hockey thinker, and that's an understatement.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 10:30 PM
  #53
Nicko999
Registered User
 
Nicko999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,595
vCash: 174
We just have to make sure to transplant Markov's brain into Subban's when he retires.

Nicko999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 10:36 PM
  #54
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
I just realized that Markov is the only D who still has not an Even Strength point.
Must admit that it's quite disappointing.
Markov actually plays quite defensively on even strength nowadays. I noticed this in his KHL play too, he doesn't have the legs to rush with the puck so he focuses on what he's still good at, positioning himself to intercept plays and starting attacks with long passes. While he's slowed down recently, the stats don't tell the whole story, he's been quite good especially when paired with the Plekanec line, who also don't have as many points as they should because Bourque can't finish and Gionta is a black hole.

Et le But is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 10:47 PM
  #55
Bloumeister
Certifiable
 
Bloumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: in a padded cell
Posts: 5,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Subban has great physical skills but he's not a Lidstrom as a hockey thinker, and that's an understatement.
Funny. I started coaching MAHG1 this year, and one of the things we repeat the most on the ice during practice is 'two hands on your stick'... which I found myself repeating ad nauseam in the stands whenever Subban had the puck during the Habs game against Carolina on Monday

Bloumeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 10:52 PM
  #56
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Markov actually plays quite defensively on even strength nowadays. I noticed this in his KHL play too, he doesn't have the legs to rush with the puck so he focuses on what he's still good at, positioning himself to intercept plays and starting attacks with long passes. While he's slowed down recently, the stats don't tell the whole story, he's been quite good especially when paired with the Plekanec line, who also don't have as many points as they should because Bourque can't finish and Gionta is a black hole.
Why do you say Bourque can't finish when he's had 30-goal seasons and you've seen with your own eyes that he can score? And haven't you read the many posters who've changed their minds about him and now agree that the trade actually benefited the Habs? I agree that Gionta has not been particularly effective but Cole has been a greater disappointment so far this season.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 10:54 PM
  #57
StellerEller
Canada's Team
 
StellerEller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,001
vCash: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Subban has great physical skills but he's not a Lidstrom as a hockey thinker, and that's an understatement.
I agree in part. I don't think PK is a PPQB, though he is a PP player. He has good vision and creativity, but more on individual plays and on the rush than in a set formation. He also needs to learn patience.

IMO he is different this year. He's making way smarter plays in the ozone, and he's not using that stupid big windup for the point shot. He's using his wrister more, which is very good for a Dman, very heavy and accurate, and he's using the half-clapper more too. I just wish MT would let him play with gorges or move him and Boullion up in minutes. Markov-Emelin is way more effective against softer competition and He and Gorges could easily handle the big match ups together or split between their pairings.

StellerEller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 11:50 PM
  #58
Markowicz
Simple Jacques
 
Markowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,989
vCash: 500
Don't mean to rain on any Markov lover's parade, but he's not nearly as good as he used to be. He's getting by admiringly with his incredible hockey sense, but his movement and skating is not great. Someone brought up that he has no even strength points and its really not that surprising. The PP does not require him to move that much, which is why he has excelled in that area. Still, i was at the game last night, and it was evident that he really does not make much effort to get the puck if he has to skate hard to get it (on the PP).

I'm not sure when it will happen, but i predict that very soon Markov's minutes will dip a bit, and Subban's will go up (if it hasn't already happened). It's very strange how Therrien has barely used Subban on the PK, after he excelled in that area last year. You want a physical, mobile guy on the PK, and that's just what he is. I like Diaz, but i can't for the life of me figure out what he's doing on the PK.

I know Therrien is trying to go with more balanced lineup in every facet this year, but of all the things that failed last year, the one thing that worked was the PK. It should be Gorges, Subban, Moen and Plex every first wave.

Markowicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 12:11 AM
  #59
E = CH≤
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 15,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
Don't mean to rain on any Markov lover's parade, but he's not nearly as good as he used to be. He's getting by admiringly with his incredible hockey sense, but his movement and skating is not great. Someone brought up that he has no even strength points and its really not that surprising. The PP does not require him to move that much, which is why he has excelled in that area. Still, i was at the game last night, and it was evident that he really does not make much effort to get the puck if he has to skate hard to get it (on the PP).

I'm not sure when it will happen, but i predict that very soon Markov's minutes will dip a bit, and Subban's will go up (if it hasn't already happened). It's very strange how Therrien has barely used Subban on the PK, after he excelled in that area last year. You want a physical, mobile guy on the PK, and that's just what he is. I like Diaz, but i can't for the life of me figure out what he's doing on the PK.

I know Therrien is trying to go with more balanced lineup in every facet this year, but of all the things that failed last year, the one thing that worked was the PK. It should be Gorges, Subban, Moen and Plex every first wave.
I actually agree with MT's decision to play Plekanec less on the PK. He's our best forward offensively (close call with Patch maybe), so for regular season games there's no point in burning him out with PK, PP and 5v5 duties... the small drop in PK effectiveness by using a Prust over him will pay off big time in the playoffs.

But yeah, MT needs to take Diaz off the PK and put Subban in there pronto.

E = CH≤ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 01:36 AM
  #60
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,999
vCash: 500
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...medium=twitter

and for you stat junkies out there:

The plus/minus numbers aren’t alarming, but the underlying stats are a little: the Habs’ goalies’ save percentage when their top defenceman is on the ice is .904, the worst rating of any blueliner on the team. Aha, you’ll say, Markov plays against tougher competition than the others.

Actually, Josh Gorges has been logging the hardest minutes against the other team’s best players. And the save percentage when he’s on the ice is .954 (you can look all this up at behindthenet.ca).

Miller Time is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 02:06 AM
  #61
Lizard King*
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,268
vCash: 500
Markov not producing? Trade him he sucks. We should get Parenteau and Paille then we'll be a real playoff team

Lizard King* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 02:14 AM
  #62
25get
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,667
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...medium=twitter

and for you stat junkies out there:

The plus/minus numbers arenít alarming, but the underlying stats are a little: the Habsí goaliesí save percentage when their top defenceman is on the ice is .904, the worst rating of any blueliner on the team. Aha, youíll say, Markov plays against tougher competition than the others.

Actually, Josh Gorges has been logging the hardest minutes against the other teamís best players. And the save percentage when heís on the ice is .954 (you can look all this up at behindthenet.ca).
Thanks. Interesting and unexpected.

25get is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 02:52 AM
  #63
imisssaku
@imisssaku
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 57
vCash: 500
If you want to see Markov become effective, put Subban back with Gorges and let them take all of the hard assignments. MT should manage his ice time to ~20 minutes instead of 25+ like he's been getting. More effective offensive zone shifts and PP time. His value is his offense, so use him in that regard.

I think maybe even Diaz is better in his own end than Markov at this point... Maybe a stretch but it's honestly close. He and Bouillon as a pairing isn't going to strike fear, but it's a good third pairing. They're both competent shot blockers and can either skate or pass out of the zone well. Markov is incredibly savvy but he's just too slow to do much effective defending.

imisssaku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 06:10 AM
  #64
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
Don't mean to rain on any Markov lover's parade, but he's not nearly as good as he used to be. He's getting by admiringly with his incredible hockey sense, but his movement and skating is not great. Someone brought up that he has no even strength points and its really not that surprising. The PP does not require him to move that much, which is why he has excelled in that area. Still, i was at the game last night, and it was evident that he really does not make much effort to get the puck if he has to skate hard to get it (on the PP).

I'm not sure when it will happen, but i predict that very soon Markov's minutes will dip a bit, and Subban's will go up (if it hasn't already happened). It's very strange how Therrien has barely used Subban on the PK, after he excelled in that area last year. You want a physical, mobile guy on the PK, and that's just what he is. I like Diaz, but i can't for the life of me figure out what he's doing on the PK.

I know Therrien is trying to go with more balanced lineup in every facet this year, but of all the things that failed last year, the one thing that worked was the PK. It should be Gorges, Subban, Moen and Plex every first wave.
Yep. I said PK is our #1 Dman in the holdout thread and got lambasted. It should be clear as day who our best dman on the team is. Markov is still a good player, he's just not anything near what he used to be.

Therrien not using PK is most likely personal. That is the only thing that makes sense. If he wants to teach him lessons that's fine, but not at the expense of wins. PK was on the ice for 3 Habs goals and was on the bench for all Islander goals. Why the hell was he not playing more? No journalist wants to ask that question to their "buddy".

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 06:27 AM
  #65
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,093
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by imisssaku View Post
I think maybe even Diaz is better in his own end than Markov at this point... Maybe a stretch but it's honestly close.
No, it's not close at all. Markov is still very good defensively. He was never all that fast or mobile, and his defensive game isn't predicated on skating.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 06:31 AM
  #66
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
No, it's not close at all. Markov is still excellent defensively. He was never all that fast or mobile, and his defensive game isn't predicated on skating.
Excellent? I feel like like some are still evaluating Markov's play from 5 years ago rather than what they see on the ice right now. Markov is excellent defensively?

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 06:38 AM
  #67
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,093
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Excellent? I feel like like some are still evaluating Markov's play from 5 years ago rather than what they see on the ice right now. Markov is excellent defensively?
I edited to say 'very good' instead of excellent. He's not excellent, you're right, but he's still very good.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 07:12 AM
  #68
Halifaxhab
Registered User
 
Halifaxhab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,452
vCash: 500
Is it coincidence that a metor landed into Russia and Markov's production stopped????

It's Pod People, replacing our players, but they lack some of the physical skills that the originals had.

PROOF!!!! Of an Alien invasion! Hide in the shelters people, it's coming....Aliens!

Halifaxhab is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 07:19 AM
  #69
TennisMenace
Registered User
 
TennisMenace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Buffalo
Country: United States
Posts: 1,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffff View Post
Is it a total coincidence that Markovs point production basically stopped (2pts in the last 10) when PK started playing.......exactly 10 games ago?

I see that his minutes are normal, anything to be concerned about about his lack of production? I'm really routing for Markov this year!!
Not seeing how one is related to the other. They are not line mates.

TennisMenace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 10:09 AM
  #70
JGRB
#EllerThugLife
 
JGRB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Yep. I said PK is our #1 Dman in the holdout thread and got lambasted. It should be clear as day who our best dman on the team is. Markov is still a good player, he's just not anything near what he used to be.

Therrien not using PK is most likely personal. That is the only thing that makes sense. If he wants to teach him lessons that's fine, but not at the expense of wins. PK was on the ice for 3 Habs goals and was on the bench for all Islander goals. Why the hell was he not playing more? No journalist wants to ask that question to their "buddy".
I said the same.

P.K Subban is the Habs undisputed #1 defenseman and anyone who says otherwise is living in 2008.

Subban is an ES/PK beast.

JGRB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 10:23 AM
  #71
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...medium=twitter

and for you stat junkies out there:

The plus/minus numbers arenít alarming, but the underlying stats are a little: the Habsí goaliesí save percentage when their top defenceman is on the ice is .904, the worst rating of any blueliner on the team. Aha, youíll say, Markov plays against tougher competition than the others.

Actually, Josh Gorges has been logging the hardest minutes against the other teamís best players. And the save percentage when heís on the ice is .954 (you can look all this up at behindthenet.ca).
I think it's playing big minutes the first month that has caught up to him. He has barely played the last 2 years, KHL this year did help, but the intensity and compact schedule of this NHL season is really taxing...plus he's played against top lines and a lot of PK minutes. He seems to have lost a half to full step the last couple weeks.

Hopefully they can scale back his ice time and tough assignments a bit. I think he'll get his second wind. His skating was still at a level where he can be a very good NHL d-man at the start of the year.

Monctonscout is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 12:14 PM
  #72
THE HOFF
Registered User
 
THE HOFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
I said the same.

P.K Subban is the Habs undisputed #1 defenseman and anyone who says otherwise is living in 2008.

Subban is an ES/PK beast.
just an observation, but it just seems like by relying more on other defenders we are seting markov up for a possible solid playoff performance. If the guy can ride a few games without being phenomenal, and that we are still winning, pretty sure he is going to have gaz in the tank at the end of the year. A lot of back to back games wasn't going to be easy for him anyways ... the shortened season is a good thing ... I have faith.

THE HOFF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 01:16 PM
  #73
HeShootsHeScores
Registered User
 
HeShootsHeScores's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,247
vCash: 500
I'm worried about Markov because it seems to me that his points in the first games of the season had more to do with the other teams being bad at penalty killing, giving him way too much space, and he was crazy opportunistic (the goals vs capitals and devils in OT).

It became obvious that outspeeding him is the key to create chances against the habs. I'm scared when he is on the ice at 5 on 5, and even in power play because if he overcommits offensively he cannot back check well.

I don't know many players who can afford to be as slow as him (and lack so much acceleration) and still be good...and he is having trouble right now.

Pk has much more tools right now to be dominant.

HeShootsHeScores is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 01:26 PM
  #74
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Why do you say Bourque can't finish when he's had 30-goal seasons and you've seen with your own eyes that he can score? And haven't you read the many posters who've changed their minds about him and now agree that the trade actually benefited the Habs? I agree that Gionta has not been particularly effective but Cole has been a greater disappointment so far this season.
I mean he's horribly snake bitten this year...which is a shame because he's doing everything else right, but he's having a serious hard time finishing right now.

Et le But is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 01:31 PM
  #75
cphabs
It complels you!
 
cphabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: WNY
Country: United States
Posts: 718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by watsatheo View Post
as much as some might want to make this subban's fault, if you look at the way teams defend the pp now, the points have little space to maneuver. Habs have no one else on the pp other than markov (except possibly galchenyuk but he won't get 1st/2nd wave pp until perhaps next season) that can be creative on a pp.

Furthermore, 70% markov's points and 100% of his goals came in a span of 4 games. Of those 4 games, the teams washington, florida, winnipeg, new jersey are the 25th, 27th, 30th, 20th ranked pks in the nhl and the 4/5 worst pks of the eastern conference.

correlation =/= causation


thank you

cphabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.