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2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals/Signings: Version VI - Just trade O'Reilly Already!

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:54 AM
  #826
pooleboy
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if anything we want to trade away our UFA's for picks... not the other way around

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02-23-2013, 02:21 AM
  #827
Griffski
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Lets trade for old guys with one year on their contract.

Leafs alway make this mistake.

Nonis has it right. Only target should be ROR.

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02-23-2013, 03:04 AM
  #828
Bernier the Boats
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffski View Post
Lets trade for old guys with one year on their contract.

Leafs alway make this mistake.

Nonis has it right. Only target should be ROR.
We don't need ROR. We need a real first line C, a clear upgrade over Kadri (currently) and Grabovski.

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Old
02-23-2013, 03:07 AM
  #829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
We don't need ROR. We need a real first line C, a clear upgrade over Kadri (currently) and Grabovski.
O'Reilly did put up 55 points at age 21...He can improve you know.

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02-23-2013, 03:10 AM
  #830
Bernier the Boats
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Originally Posted by MapleLeafs9 View Post
O'Reilly did put up 55 points at age 21...He can improve you know.
He could, or he could not. Nothing he's done in the past indicates him becoming a 70 point player. If we're going to give up what we are for ROR, might as well pay that extra to get a bonifide #1C.

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02-23-2013, 03:40 AM
  #831
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Memo to Nonis.

GET ROR.

I'm serious. This guy will take us over the top.

People saying he isn't really a #1C. lol, he's already been a #1C for a while now!

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Old
02-23-2013, 03:56 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
He could, or he could not. Nothing he's done in the past indicates him becoming a 70 point player. If we're going to give up what we are for ROR, might as well pay that extra to get a bonifide #1C.
Nothing he's done in the past indicates him not becoming a 70 point player either. He had 55 points at age 21, and improved every year in his short career. He's talented, a hard worker, good two-way player, and 50+% faceoff guy. He's not just going to fall off the face of the earth suddenly.

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02-23-2013, 06:08 AM
  #833
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Does TO make a trade to get top3 draft selection?

What do you think we would need to give up in order to get that pick? Make the assumption TO first pick is in the middle of the pack


To TO: #1/2/3 pick
Out of TO: Franson + 1st rounder + MacArthur + Grabovski/Bozak + (if team won't pull trigger 2nd round pick)

I really do believe this is a fair deal. TO losses a great young defenseman, our first rounder in a great draft pool, Bozak who would be a great 2nd/3rd centerman and the potential of MacArthur. In return TO gets that perfect young centerman. The only issue I could see is forcing that young kid into NHL too soon because of the trade we made to get him.

So does anyone agree? Who would you draft if you could get anyone in next year's draft if we made the above trade or your potential trade?

Edit: this is not a discussion about how poorly the Leafs may be this year. For the sake of this argument let's pretend the Leafs will draft in the middle of the pack next year. You don't need to give a specific number and I am going to change my post to reflect that.


Last edited by RtooDtu: 02-23-2013 at 06:14 AM.
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Old
02-23-2013, 06:09 AM
  #834
iPunch
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If you had a top three pick would you take a similar deal?

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Old
02-23-2013, 06:22 AM
  #835
RtooDtu
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ROR is an amazing #1C and would be the perfect man under Carlyle defense first mentality. However with that said I am not willing to spend a **** ton for him, I would rather spend a **** ton on getting a top5 draft pick without giving up our first rounder.

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02-23-2013, 06:31 AM
  #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RtooDtu View Post
What do you think we would need to give up in order to get that pick? Make the assumption TO first pick is in the middle of the pack


To TO: #1/2/3 pick
Out of TO: Franson + 1st rounder + MacArthur + Grabovski/Bozak + (if team won't pull trigger 2nd round pick)

I really do believe this is a fair deal. TO losses a great young defenseman, our first rounder in a great draft pool, Bozak who would be a great 2nd/3rd centerman and the potential of MacArthur. In return TO gets that perfect young centerman. The only issue I could see is forcing that young kid into NHL too soon because of the trade we made to get him.

So does anyone agree? Who would you draft if you could get anyone in next year's draft if we made the above trade or your potential trade?

Edit: this is not a discussion about how poorly the Leafs may be this year. For the sake of this argument let's pretend the Leafs will draft in the middle of the pack next year. You don't need to give a specific number and I am going to change my post to reflect that.
I wouldn't think it's something Nonis is considering.

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Old
02-23-2013, 06:44 AM
  #837
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Why waste your time coming up with such a silly proposal?

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Old
02-23-2013, 06:51 AM
  #838
RtooDtu
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In stead of Franson how about Gardiner? I really do think Franson is an amazing top4 defenceman and may actually get close to a point per game.

Would that make a difference if it was Gardiner?

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02-23-2013, 06:54 AM
  #839
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Ridiculous.

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02-23-2013, 06:59 AM
  #840
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If our first is in the middle it would take a lot more then an ordinary roster players to move up. Our 1st + Kadri (make no sense for either) or our 1st + Rielly (dont make any sense for either) so no, we will not trade up to get a top 3 pick.

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02-23-2013, 07:10 AM
  #841
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This is literally one of the worst proposals I've ever read that wasn't made in jest.

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02-23-2013, 07:28 AM
  #842
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A couple of issues with this. First off, if we are in a playoff hunt at the deadline we are not going to gut that much of our roster just to get a top 3 pick. If we are not in a playoff hunt (say we undergo an epic collapse like last year), we are going to be closer to a top 3 pick ourselves making the proposal redundant. If you meant after the season, you have to bear in mind that Bozak and Macarthur are UFA's at the end of the year, making their value minimal, Franson will be an RFA, and Grabo's contract is very expensive, so I doubt they take any of that combination, with the possible exception of Franson because he's young.

To answer your initial question, can I see us making a move to get a top 3 pick? I'm sure we'll do our due diligence and try, but I can't imagine the pricetag will be one Nonis is willing to pay.

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:48 AM
  #843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
If you had a top three pick would you take a similar deal?
This.

Please look at it from the other teams perspective...

If you had the #2-3 pick, and were guaranteed one of MacKinnon or Drouin (or Barkov if you think he's better)... Would you trade that for a mid 1st and a couple 2nd line players? No, you'd want the chance to get a franchise player out of that high pick.

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:00 AM
  #844
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I think for me the most pressing question is,what do we do with our pending UFAs come TD if they are not signed.

I really dislike seeing contract nego s go past the TD.

Seen far to many bent over the barrel deals done after the fact.

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:26 AM
  #845
The Naz
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I don't think there will be much in the way of trades for this team. Not if the price for Luongo and ROR are still high. I don't see a need for Luongo this year anyway. Both are goalies are playing great. I think Reimer is our 1G, and good one at that, and Scrivens is playing with Hasek like luck. He's played a perfect combination of luck and skill to put up fantastic numbers.

Using a handful of our better assets to get ROR is a waste. We don't have a need for 4 2C's. Bozak plays quite well with Kessel, Grabs is doing at least most of the job you'd expect from ROR and has an undesirable contract, making him too much of a cost to move him and still spend assets to get a player a bit better. Trading Kadri to make space for ROR is beyond a Millbury level of incompetence. No point in discussing that further.

Keep the team as is, mostly. They're still young and learning. This isn't the year to go all in. The only moves I see necessary are making room on the D for Gardiner and Komisarek. Kostka should be the first move.

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:37 AM
  #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Naz View Post
I don't think there will be much in the way of trades for this team. Not if the price for Luongo and ROR are still high. I don't see a need for Luongo this year anyway. Both are goalies are playing great. I think Reimer is our 1G, and good one at that, and Scrivens is playing with Hasek like luck. He's played a perfect combination of luck and skill to put up fantastic numbers.

Using a handful of our better assets to get ROR is a waste. We don't have a need for 4 2C's. Bozak plays quite well with Kessel, Grabs is doing at least most of the job you'd expect from ROR and has an undesirable contract, making him too much of a cost to move him and still spend assets to get a player a bit better. Trading Kadri to make space for ROR is beyond a Millbury level of incompetence. No point in discussing that further.

Keep the team as is, mostly. They're still young and learning. This isn't the year to go all in. The only moves I see necessary are making room on the D for Gardiner and Komisarek. Kostka should be the first move.
Gardiner is a liability defensively. Y

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:40 AM
  #847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
I think for me the most pressing question is,what do we do with our pending UFAs come TD if they are not signed.

I really dislike seeing contract nego s go past the TD.

Seen far to many bent over the barrel deals done after the fact.
IMO, Bozak has to be resigned, he's impressed this season, and merits staying, Grabbo is the odd man out, he's the centre that needs to be traded because he has value and can garner a respectable return. Packaged with Kulemin + or Liles ++ might get the Leafs a true #1 centre?

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:43 AM
  #848
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Gardiner is a liability defensively. Y
What could we get by eating some of our losses and moving Connolly, Kommasarek, Liles and Gardiner? You're mistaken if you think Carlyle wants easy to play against D in his lineup. You don't win Stanley Cups with D like Gardiner/Liles. Maybe Colorado believes they can? Been awhile since they've been around in June. All 4 of the above for ROR? Lol

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Old
02-23-2013, 09:04 AM
  #849
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MapleLeafs9 View Post
O'Reilly did put up 55 points at age 21...He can improve you know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
He could, or he could not. Nothing he's done in the past indicates him becoming a 70 point player. If we're going to give up what we are for ROR, might as well pay that extra to get a bonifide #1C.
Phaneuf was a better defenseman at O'Reilly's age than O'Reilly is a center.

How many Norris trophies has Phaneuf won since he was a finalist? How many times as he been in the top 3? How about Mike Green in Washington? Nick Backstrom must surely be the best center in the game since he had 88 points as a 21 year old and 101 points as a 22 year old.

It is great that 21 and 22 year olds always get better as 23 and 24 year olds. Progressive improvement is guaranteed. Well that is the theory I'm hearing.

2007-2008 Norris Trophy Voting
Pts. (1st-2nd-3rd-4th-5th)
1. Nicklas Lidstrom, DET 1313 (127-5-1-1-0)
2. Dion Phaneuf, CGY 561 (2-38-37-26-12)
3. Zdeno Chara, BOS 486 (3-38-23-21-12)
4. Sergei Gonchar, PIT 370 (1-24-21-21-24)
5. Brian Campbell, S.J. 333 (1-18-16-31-24)
6. Andrei Markov, MTL 156 (0-4-15-11-20)
7. Mike Green, WSH 84 (0-1-7-10-12)
8. Chris Pronger, ANA 56 (0-2-5-5-2)
9. Brian Rafalski, DET 25 (0-1-1-2-7)
10. Scott Niedermayer, ANA 22 (0-2-1-1-0)
11. Duncan Keith, CHI 19 (0-0-2-0-9)
12. Brent Burns, MIN 14 (0-0-2-1-1)
13. Mark Streit, MTL 11 (0-1-0-1-1)
14. Mathieu Schneider, ANA 9 (0-0-1-1-1)
15. Ed Jovanovski, PHX 8 (0-0-1-1-0)
16. Wade Redden, OTT 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
17. Joe Corvo, CAR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Jassen Cullimore, FLA 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Tomas Kaberle, TOR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Mike Komisarek, MTL 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
John-Michael Liles, COL 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Andrej Meszaros, OTT 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Kimmo Timonen, PHI 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Shea Weber, NSH 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Sergei Zubov, DAL 1 (0-0-0-0-1)


Phaneuf Norris Votes:
2009: 2 3rd., 2 4th., 1 5th.
2010: 1 4th.
2011: 0
2012: 0

Don't have to look far to see that progression isn't linear.

Just because O'Reilly has a blip in one year doesn't mean he's going back there again.

As soon as Stajan was given the ice time in Toronto, after playing behind a HOF center, and Antropov he put up the points. Could he have done it as a 22 year old? We don't know because he never had that opportunity or was given that ice time.

At age 20, in the NHL Stajan scored 14 goals while playing 11:00 a game. He got 0:33 seconds on the PP per game.
At age 22, in the NHL Stajan scored 15 goals while playing 11:37 a game. He got 0:37 seconds on the PP per game.

At age 21, in the NHL O'Reilly scored 18 goals while playing 19:31 a game. He got 2:21 of PP time per game.

Stajan is a December baby, O'Reilly a February boy. There was no NHL when Stajan was 21.

As is normal for centers, Stajan's best seasons were based on assists.

He had a 55 and a 57 point season where he scored 15 and 19 goals respectively. He scored 14, 15, 10, and 16 goals in other seasons. Stajan scored 33 and 34 goals in 2 different junior seasons. O'Reilly never scored over 19 goals in any junior season.

By all means if they can land O'Reilly for a reasonable price and the expectation is that he's going to be your 2nd./3rd. line center there should be no disappointment.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
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Old
02-23-2013, 09:13 AM
  #850
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Asset that will be traded this year i think

Mac
Liles
another D

What could we get for these assets combined with a prospect or 2nd round pick could we get another first or 2 firsts?

Is it better to get more firsts than players?

I would still love Clowe on this team he would be perfect to play 2nd line..

Mac + prospect for Clowe

Liles for a 1st

smaller trades for 3rds..

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