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Old
07-14-2006, 03:40 PM
  #1
Marchy79
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Its evident to me...

Many posters around here think that the biggest weakness the habs currently have is @ the second line center position...

However IMO... The LARGEST position that needs to be filled is a second legitimate top 2 defenceman who can play with Markov. Seriously. If we got a legitimate top 2 defenceman, wéd be closer to being contenders IMO.

Right now, the forward unit looks very good and solid on paper... lots of coverage, and solid players posted all over the teamès 4 lines, and Hamilton.

Defence however, there is a tremendous gap after Markov, where we can use a second heavy defenceman.

I know this is totally spilled oats (esp. after the awesome week we just had )
however, I would still like to see Gainey perhaps make an attempt on Dannil Markov from Nashville. hes got strong chemistry with our # 1 guy (as proven in WC, and Olympics)... and IMO could be that elusive answer we are looking for until Komisarek is ready to be the man...

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07-14-2006, 03:43 PM
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SOLR
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I agree that we might need another very good D
But its not to play with Markov imo, its to play with Rivet.(i.e replacing Sheldon). I prefer having 2 good pairings than one ubar one.

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07-14-2006, 03:51 PM
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zx81
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Actually the problem may be the whole center "line".

We don't know how Koivu will return and even if 100% healthy he's not a dominating center.

When you can't even expect 30 goals from your first center I don't think you're strong at that position .

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07-14-2006, 04:24 PM
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MathMan
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Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
When you can't even expect 30 goals from your first center I don't think you're strong at that position .
The Senators are weak at center then?

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Old
07-14-2006, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
Actually the problem may be the whole center "line".

We don't know how Koivu will return and even if 100% healthy he's not a dominating center.

When you can't even expect 30 goals from your first center I don't think you're strong at that position .
It's worse when your first AND second center only amount to 33 goals total. But, both of our centres are playmakers first and foremost and goals from the person's wingers tell more of a story in this situation I think, with Ryder netting 30 and Higgins going on a tear after being paired with Koivu.

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07-14-2006, 04:29 PM
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kostitsyn1489
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I like our pairing now.

Markov-Komisarek are play really well together. Komi is not Stevens but he's a really good dtrong defensemen and he had a really good chemistery with Markov and I think this year he will be great.

Souray-Rivet play well together and it's a really good 2nd pairing.

Bouillon Dandy good chemistery both fast skater can hit hard and jump in the play. I think it's one of the best 3rd pairing in the league.

And we have Streit and Cote. I think both can be good back-up and maybe 5-6D. Our D is not THAT bad. Canes doesn't have a 1st D and maybe 2 2nd and 4 5-6D and they win the cup. We can have a really good D with a good system.

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07-14-2006, 04:37 PM
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RC51
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A 2nd center is the most needed addition and yes it's followed by a d-man, but I do disagree with you on the d-man, a second excellent PP quarterback is needed for the right side, even above size.

on anther note, the Hab PK looked a lot better near the end of the season, with Carbo at the helm thier is NO REASON it won't get even better, Carbo was the BEST

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Old
07-14-2006, 04:40 PM
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znk
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Our center position was a way more evident problem all year long then the D was.

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Old
07-14-2006, 04:48 PM
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I'm pretty satisfied with our actual line-up as it is right now...Obviously there is always a little room to tighten up the screws, but like I said I'm not overly concerned right now. I personally think we already have a pretty mobile defensive squad but I wouldn't mind perhaps adding some extra depth at the trade dead-line. That will give us some flexibility when it comes to resigning our group of free agent defensemen.

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07-14-2006, 04:52 PM
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znk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
A 2nd center is the most needed addition and yes it's followed by a d-man, but I do disagree with you on the d-man, a second excellent PP quarterback is needed for the right side, even above size.

on anther note, the Hab PK looked a lot better near the end of the season, with Carbo at the helm thier is NO REASON it won't get even better, Carbo was the BEST
Well I think we should consider using a forward on D for the powerplay. I never really liked the idea but....I,d rather see a skilled forward on the point on the PP instead of lets say..Dandenault

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Old
07-14-2006, 04:53 PM
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Actually, I think Bob will keep Souray this year becuz it dont have any better defensman than him on the market or via trade (expendable). Souray is a legitimate #3 dman so we will live with that this year.

Next year, Souray will be UFA and he will sign somewhere in California. With the money we save, we will can look for a better dman during off season. Anyone of you have a list of defensmans available next year ?

PS : Well, if you dont want to wait and put Bouillon at 1.9 as number 7 dman, we can also go after Brewer.

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Old
07-14-2006, 04:56 PM
  #12
Marchy79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489 View Post
I like our pairing now.

Markov-Komisarek are play really well together. Komi is not Stevens but he's a really good dtrong defensemen and he had a really good chemistery with Markov and I think this year he will be great.

Souray-Rivet play well together and it's a really good 2nd pairing.

Bouillon Dandy good chemistery both fast skater can hit hard and jump in the play. I think it's one of the best 3rd pairing in the league.

And we have Streit and Cote. I think both can be good back-up and maybe 5-6D. Our D is not THAT bad. Canes doesn't have a 1st D and maybe 2 2nd and 4 5-6D and they win the cup. We can have a really good D with a good system.
Ahh, yes... I agree to the fact that I LIKE our defencemen... my only problem with them is that we CAN use the most improvement in this position on the team.

I am extremely comfortable going with Our forward lines... With we placed 6 forwards in to the top 115 scoring forwards in the NHL... Before this week, we had our top 6 within 170 positions on the list (which goes to 568 forwards who played in the NHL last year).
Bear in mind, Chris Higgins was scorer # 169 out of 568 last year... Thats 7 players who are within the frameline of top 6 forward scoring in the NHL last year.

The habs should be much more dangerous this upcoming season, simply because of such... Well, that, and burgeoning talent ready to take their roster spot possibly this season...

Hopefully Komisarek can fulfill his top 2 defence role, as it would only solidify us that much more... We IMO are very well off on D, as we have 3 of the top 50 Defence scorers, and 5 out of the top 100. Thatès pretty sharp there however is simply too much repetition in this line up... too many 3 or 4 defencemens, or talented 5 or 6ès...

We are strong in net, having the reigning Roger Crozier saving grace goaltender, matched with a young #1 as his back-up...

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07-14-2006, 05:03 PM
  #13
goalchenyuk
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i also think that our defensive core isn't that good . We forget how our goalers were in the need to overperformed , to give us victories .

Komisarek is a promising d-man , but no way he's first pairing material right now .Brewer would fit , as Markov ( Dany )

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Old
07-14-2006, 05:20 PM
  #14
znk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v View Post
i also think that our defensive core isn't that good . We forget how our goalers were in the need to overperformed , to give us victories .

Komisarek is a promising d-man , but no way he's first pairing material right now .Brewer would fit , as Markov ( Dany )
compare our D with other teams in our conference and rank us.

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Old
07-14-2006, 05:21 PM
  #15
ForsbergForever
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If Lindros wasn't Lindros he'd be great as the 2nd line C

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07-14-2006, 05:29 PM
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personally... i would be in very big favor of us upgrading our blueline, without question.

markov's great...
komisarek's staying (and I expect him to break out)...
bouillon signed, so i doubt he'll be moved (even though it's possible)
rivet came off a great season, but is tradeable (sorry saku)
dandy can be moved
streit can be moved
souray can be moved

perhaps that's what gainey's doing? maybe we'll be skaking up the blueline? ribs is expendable, as is aebischer... among others... packaging one of them with a d-man (likely souray) to give up a top notch defenseman would be great, but not sure where we can get it

i'd like to see ribeiro and souray packaged (then have pleks step into the 2nd line).. but who the heck knows their market value and possible return (only about 30 guys do, and they're all GMs in the NHL)

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Old
07-14-2006, 06:02 PM
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Madevilz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The Senators are weak at center then?
no but you can at least expect the first center to score 100pts in a full season

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07-14-2006, 06:11 PM
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Habsy
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Our weakness at center got brutally exposed when hacksaw Williams took Koivu out. Center is our glaring deficiency, not D.

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Old
07-14-2006, 06:14 PM
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Madevilz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
Our weakness at center got brutally exposed when hacksaw Williams took Koivu out. Center is our glaring deficiency, not D.
yeah, I think having 3 Ds with 30pts+, two solid bottom pairing Dmen in Bouillon and Dandenault shows that its not out weakest area. Center is definitely the area we need to improve on. We looked lost without Koivu.

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07-14-2006, 08:26 PM
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I just hope that if Markov s injured for some times, it s not a complete disaster like last year again...
i think we were 3-11 without him

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Old
07-14-2006, 08:52 PM
  #21
Teufelsdreck
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The divided opinion here about whether center or defense is the position that most needs strengthening suggests that the Habs have TWO weaknesses, not one. Not a single draft since Serge Savard was fired has brought the Habs a legitimate #1 center, and you'd get some argument about whether those drafts have brought in a top #2. Similarly, the best Dman drafted in all those years was Markov, and he was an accident, a late round lucky find. That's not meant to slag Komisarek, who's turning out to be OK.

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07-14-2006, 09:14 PM
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goalchenyuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
Our weakness at center got brutally exposed when hacksaw Williams took Koivu out. Center is our glaring deficiency, not D.
would have been the same if the team would had played without Markov .

But i also think that we have two weaknesses .I just think that you build from your defensive core , before your offensive . It's not that we have a bad d-men group , but that all of them is playing a one step bigger role . Bouillon isn't a top 4 d-man as Dandeneault . But how much games they played that role last season ?

Beside that , the center problem is different ; it's not that we don't have the centers that are good for their respective line , it's that we have one of them that is injured 15 games every year , and that we don't have someone enough good to play his role during those periods . Ribeiro isn't a first liner , but that doesn't mean that he's not a good second liner.

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07-14-2006, 09:42 PM
  #23
Marchy79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v View Post
would have been the same if the team would had played without Markov .

But i also think that we have two weaknesses .I just think that you build from your defensive core , before your offensive . It's not that we have a bad d-men group , but that all of them is playing a one step bigger role . Bouillon isn't a top 4 d-man as Dandeneault . But how much games they played that role last season ?

Beside that , the center problem is different ; it's not that we don't have the centers that are good for their respective line , it's that we have one of them that is injured 15 games every year , and that we don't have someone enough good to play his role during those periods . Ribeiro isn't a first liner , but that doesn't mean that he's not a good second liner.
Totally agree

The center position problem is not as bad as our defensive core.
Markov-Komisarek
Souray-Rivet
Bouillon-Dandenault
Streit-Archer
Cote-Sanford
(now Jancevski)
Benoit

Looking at the SIGNED defensive contracts (IMO essentially based on history of the franchise the past few years...) these are the players who possibly can be habs defenders from within the system.

Andrei Markov is a premiere First Pairing Left Defenceman. He's a quarterback, with great vision and hockey sense. Decent outlet passes, and has become a rock on our d-corps. Clear cut # 1 defenceman in the making....
Mike KomisarekDefensively has begun to shine through the cracks and blossom in to the menacing force he was drafted to become. Has upside, however was essentially a third pairing defenceman last year (Right Side). He has the potential to be the #2 (beside Markov's #1), and be the defensive conscience that keeps the oppposition from ever enjoying a night at the bell center... However jumping him from 3rd pair to first may be too steep a climb at this time.
Sheldon Souray Sheldon Souray exploded on the scene in fine fashion in the 03-04 season that brought other current hab stand outs in the mix...He's got a cannon, he's physical yet forgets his mark at times... Not entirely knowledgeable in the hockey sense, but has the talents to be a high calibre #3 defenceman in Montreal.
Craig Rivet Really had a great season last year, however was slightly overplayed as semi-top billing partner on the right side. He's a good competent #4 RD, who takes no guff and provides leadership skills to the team.
Francis Bouillon Definately a good #5 man. Can cover as a second pairing defenceman from time to time. Loads of heart and grit. Bubbles has earned his role, and is consistently a good performer. His size, however leaves him defensively prone from time to time. Quite possibly the habs best puck rushing defenceman.
Mathieu Dandenault Speed Kills. A responsible, quick defenceman who had a very good second half. He's a quality utility player, as he can cover up front, or on d. Took many dumb penalties in the beginning of the season... But rounded in to form in the new year to be a quality defenceman, capable of handling quality minutes in a game.

Mark Streit, JP Cote, Dan Jancevski
They've each gotten a taste of NHL life. Streit has the inside track for #7 d... However IMO the other 2 arent far behind...

Andre Benoit (LD), James Sanford (RD), Andrew Archer (RD)
If any of the three would do anything in terms of surprise, IMO it would be Benoit... All three are long shots (extremely) at best.


Now, it sounds allright... but that's if all the cards fall the right way. Is Komisarek ready for top 2 minutes? Rivet is a good #2 RD, but it's a stretch to play him top line RD minutes. not even to mention, we have very weak RD callups in case of an injury (hopefully not) and ultimately, if a LD goes in to a RD spot... there's typically holes. I think we need a #1 RD, they're really hard to come by... but it'd make all the difference in the world IMO.

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Old
07-14-2006, 10:25 PM
  #24
#44_delivers
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we're very week at 2nd line center.


we're ok on defense. maybe 1 replacement.

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