HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Mtl-phi

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-22-2013, 04:04 PM
  #51
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post


Martin St. Louis (25-year-old / 1st full NHL season) : 78 GP - 18 G - 22 A - 40 P
Matt Read (25-year-old / 1st full NHL season) : 79 GP - 24 G - 23 A - 47 P


So, if you're allowed to say that Diaz is the next Rafalski, then I can tell you to start calling Read, Matt "The Next St. Louis" Read.

If you won't call Matt Read the next Martin St. Louis, then you can't call Raphael Diaz the next Brian Rafalski.
dude, you're the one who opened the door. Should have used a better example is all given that Rafalski played exactly 75 games as a 27 year old.

foot, meet mouth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
LOL. I love it. While I think Chris is correct in stating Philly would, and should, NOT trade Simmonds for the OP, I do like when it can be shown to him where he is wrong about certain things (such as JvR, Carter, and Richards being "untouchable" as an example).
i agreed with that as well. Were it reversed I probably wouldn't want to move Simmonds either.

Thing is, right now Eller/Diaz are more valuable to the habs than Simmonds likely would be, and both Eller/Diaz have very promising upside, much like Simmonds.

The other thing, is that as productive as Simmonds is, more than 1/2 of his points come from PP, and he gets 1/4 of his 16min/game playing PP... this on a team that has had injury issues up front AND is struggling overall.

it's not a knock on Simmonds, of course, but as is often the case, point production sometimes skews people's perspective.

Eller may not be racking up points, but he's earning almost the same ES minutes that Simmonds is (11 vs 12), playing for the top team in the conference.

give Eller ~4min of PP time/game & his scoring would quite likely be way up. Context is important.

& then were supposed to throw-in Diaz & a very high 2nd round pick in a deep draft, while getting a very good 4th line player who kills penalties?

Thanks but no thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I was told two things:

1) He is comparable to Rafalski and has such possential
2) He possibly has more value than Simmonds

From those clues I can infer...
lot's of people say stupid things, no need to follow it up with foot-in-mouth comments, is there?


and Diaz's game does compare quite favorably to Rafalski, as do their career professional trajectories.
Will Diaz continue to improve to the point of being a consistent all-star dman? odds aren't favorable, but that doesn't change anything about the fact that right now Diaz is a 20min/game PMD on a team that is leading the conference... no team in their right mind trades a guy like that as a "throw-in".
Shouldn't be so hard to understand...

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 04:31 PM
  #52
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,709
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Diaz has more value than Simmonds? Not sure I'm following that one. So Read should get me Subban?

Definite no to the OP proposal as well.

Anyway, Simmonds is not really available short of overpayment, so he's not really available short of Subban, if he was even made available for Subban. That's pretty much all there is to this conversation.
Diaz has a great value and Simmonds too... There's one that is overated and another that is underated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by p9ers View Post
The Habs gets so many PP dmen specialist, it's quite impressive. (Sourray, Streit, Diaz)
Diaz is not a PP dmen specialist. He's a great ES dmen and a PP specialist

He's far more superior than any other we had.



But honestly... If we trade Diaz its like giving up on the season, why would we do that ?

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 05:10 PM
  #53
Chacal667
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That's what all teams do with unproven 27-year-old free agents skaters from overseas that are currently looking better than expected.

Believing that the Canadiens will do that is not that far-fetched. It's also because no other team would offer up substantial pieces in return for that skater. We're not getting PK Subban for Matt Read. You're not getting Simmonds for Diaz. It's the way the world works.
I'm not saying that the op have a chance to work or something, I just say that Diaz have the potential to become the next Rafalski, and I can tell you a lot of professional that think the same thing.

Chacal667 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 05:13 PM
  #54
Chacal667
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReppingMTL View Post
In no way is Diaz and Eller better than Simmonds. Diaz is playing well for us, but let's not forget that mot of his points are on the PP playing alongside Markov.

The way I see it: Simmonds>Eller>Diaz>Talbot in terms of value.
Don't see why Philly would give up one of the better PF wingers in the NHL today.
Simmonds one of the best PF ??? LOL

Diaz play better than Markov now,
Diaz = 12 pts +5
Markov = 10 pts -2


Last edited by Chacal667: 02-22-2013 at 05:29 PM.
Chacal667 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 05:15 PM
  #55
Takashi
Registered User
 
Takashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 940
vCash: 500
no from habs

Takashi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 05:19 PM
  #56
Chacal667
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post


Martin St. Louis (25-year-old / 1st full NHL season) : 78 GP - 18 G - 22 A - 40 P
Matt Read (25-year-old / 1st full NHL season) : 79 GP - 24 G - 23 A - 47 P


So, if you're allowed to say that Diaz is the next Rafalski, then I can tell you to start calling Read, Matt "The Next St. Louis" Read.

If you won't call Matt Read the next Martin St. Louis, then you can't call Raphael Diaz the next Brian Rafalski.
When I say Diaz look like Rafalski i'm not reporting to his stats, but to his gameplay...

Chacal667 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 05:25 PM
  #57
greenstickytoes
Registered User
 
greenstickytoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 365
vCash: 500
yep i love this trade for sure!
Adding Talbot and Simmonds to the lineup would really change
the teams appearance in looks of Grit. Which is what Mtl has been
lacking for the last 5 years...
Prust, Dumont and Talbot would definitely stir it up!
Simmonds would be a great winger for pleky.
Bourque is big but definitely doesnt play as physical as Simmonds.
neither can Gionta because of his size so that would help for sure.

Flyers would benefit off Eller for sure. with the flyers offence
i think Eller will look like a hell of a player in philly. Diaz would be
a good pair with L.schenn. at D also adding alot of offense on the blue line.

i think this trade is one to think about for both Holmgren and Bergevin.
it would definitely help both teams imo.

greenstickytoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 05:37 PM
  #58
greenstickytoes
Registered User
 
greenstickytoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
We're not getting PK Subban for Matt Read. You're not getting Simmonds for Diaz. It's the way the world works.
please tell me your not comparing Simmonds to PK Subban...

greenstickytoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 05:39 PM
  #59
Chacal667
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,453
vCash: 500
i prefer to keep diaz anyway !

so thats perfect, you keep simmonds, we keep diaz and good luck for the rest of the season

Chacal667 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 05:45 PM
  #60
Mats86
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,085
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Price4Prez View Post
W.Simmonds & M.Talbot to the Habs.

What would it take?

My suggestion:

Eller,Diaz,CGY 2nd pick (almost a first rounder)

Gives MTL 2 strong gritty forwards that can chip in some offense. Philly gets Diaz, who has flourished this year, and can really help that crippled blueline, Eller is a great building block, young and only getting better, the pick speaks for itself. Points wise, its almost even. Basically trading styles of play here. Montreal can use more gritty offensive forwards, and Philly can use some talent on the back end, and Ellers strong 2way play.

Might be a little much coming from MTLs side, but i think this benefits both sides.

Thoughts?
Personally I think you are giving up too much.

Mats86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 07:13 PM
  #61
Stizzle
Registered User
 
Stizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,803
vCash: 500
Montreal people, this trade might be fair on paper, but it doesn't make amazing sense for the Flyers. We are already super deep at center. And excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong, but Eller is a center. This trade would leave us pretty thin on the wing. With the loss on Read for 6 weeks, and Hartnell still out, we can't trade.

Stizzle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 07:19 PM
  #62
Hugo Sham
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 10,030
vCash: 500
LOL it's amazing when a dman is 27 and considered 'old' to fit an argument - never mind fact most dmen don't come into their own till 30.
Diaz was the best dman in europe when he was signed and in the top
3 this year even with NHLers over there.
he'd be the best skater and passer with Timmonen RIGHT NOW
on the Flyers.
He was chosen on the rookie all star team last year. who makes those selections? he's not a flash in the pan.
he's mark streit, with less of a shot but much better defensively

Hugo Sham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 07:46 PM
  #63
Schenn Bros Pizza*
All-Star
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 776
vCash: 500
Simmonds is incredible. Causes havoc in front of the net, fights, checks, scores. He does everything a team wants. I would be furious if the flyers traded him. He is underrated on our team. He does it all.

Schenn Bros Pizza* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2013, 08:50 PM
  #64
greenstickytoes
Registered User
 
greenstickytoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kangiroux View Post
Simmonds is incredible. Causes havoc in front of the net, fights, checks, scores. He does everything a team wants. I would be furious if the flyers traded him. He is underrated on our team. He does it all.
i think Eller can do the same if he was on flyers. i don't know why nobody
talks about Eller that much when hes a huge piece in this trade.
he's a centermen that can easily play as a winger. hes bigger than simmonds
and is a better playmaker. he's younger and only has 2 seasons under
his belt with huge progression doubling from year to year.
Simmonds played 4 seasons in the nhl with a bad progression going from
23-40-30... having only 49 points on your 4th season with the best offensive
team in the nhl last year isnt that impressive. i think you all should stop overrating
simmonds and stop underrating Eller..
if Eller was with the flyers, all you flyers fans wouldnt even want to know
anything about simmonds. especially if simmonds was playing with Mtl last
year. he would have got a total of 30pts far most..
so Eller and Diaz is a big op for simmonds.

greenstickytoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 06:53 AM
  #65
Tripod
Registered User
 
Tripod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
I'd like to have Simmonds on the Habs, but he's basically a 20/20 winger. He does bring a great physical element, but he's not close to a 30 goals scorer like his previous season would indicate.

Following this line of thought, I wouldn't trade Eller, Diaz and a 2nd for him. Both players are starting to find their groove lately, and that 2nd rounder will be a high one in a deep draft. Talbot is of no interest at all for me. He's a Steve Bégin 2.0 at best on a pretty lengthy contract.

I think the Habs are giving a pretty solid value here. The only way I see the Flyers refusing it is because A) they're already very deep at center, much like the Habs, and B) they lack some depth on the wings and cannot afford losing Simmonds on the wings, again much like the Habs.

Just imagine if Diaz isn't simply on a hot streak but has finally truly established himself in the league... I'd be reticent to trade him as it is for Simmonds.

I don't think this trade helps the Habs all that much, and I don't think there's enough coming back for the Flyers to consider. They'd need a winger at least, I believe.
This is so full of WRONG.

Simmoonds is a 20-20....except he had 29 goals last year. And this year is on a 31-35 pace. Maybe he is just becoming better????

Talbot is Begin 2.0 at best....except that Begin had 1 season of 12 goals or more and had 6 seasons of ZERO goals. Talbot has 4 seasons of 12 or more goals already.

Diaz is a #5 D-man that is good on the PP.

Tripod is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 07:14 AM
  #66
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,039
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
Just to let you know, diaz is our best dman this season, better than subban.
Andrei Markov is clearly the Canadiens best defenseman thus far and since his return, P.K. Subban is also playing at a level clearly better than Diaz.

If you think Diaz is the Canadiens best defenseman this season, you are simply not paying attention.

FerrisRox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 07:14 AM
  #67
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,039
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
Diaz is comparable to Rafalski and he have the potential to become that good.
This is, quite frankly, a laughable statement.

FerrisRox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 07:49 AM
  #68
Mats86
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,085
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
Montreal people, this trade might be fair on paper, but it doesn't make amazing sense for the Flyers. We are already super deep at center. And excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong, but Eller is a center. This trade would leave us pretty thin on the wing. With the loss on Read for 6 weeks, and Hartnell still out, we can't trade.
Would Flyers do Simmonds and a first for Markov? Or Vorachek and first for Markov

Mats86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 08:23 AM
  #69
BernieParent
Registered User
 
BernieParent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,010
vCash: 500
From as objective an opinion as I can form, being a Flyers fan, I would say that the best comparator to Diaz on the Flyer line-up is Read. Both players are undrafted late bloomers, a bit on the small side, but who are (or were, before Read's injury) playing strong supporting roles under each team's higher-profile talent at their positions.

Read was building on his very good first season before going on IR. Diaz's season last year was more modest, so I would say he is the higher risk of this season being an aberration.

As much as I and most Flyers fans are enamoured with Read as a potent scoring forward who is defensively responsible and on a great contract, for the sake of this exercise, a 1-for-1 swap of these two would be fair. It would also satisfy a position of need for Philadelphia but not for Montreal.

BernieParent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 09:06 AM
  #70
Drydenwasthebest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Andrei Markov is clearly the Canadiens best defenseman thus far and since his return, P.K. Subban is also playing at a level clearly better than Diaz.

If you think Diaz is the Canadiens best defenseman this season, you are simply not paying attention.
Correct. Points are not the sum total of what makes a defenceman good or bad. Diaz has been excellent for us, and should continue to excel on the PP with Markov, but he is expendable for the right piece because we have Subban and Markov. We also have more of a need for a big net clearing and punishing defenceman to get bodies away from our net and stop players from driving down the center of our zone. Diaz can not do that.

Quote:
This is, quite frankly, a laughable statement.
Actually, it was a very accurate statement. Nobody is saying Diaz IS as good as Rafalski right now. It is fair to say he is COMPARABLE to Rafalski based on a lot of factors (age to games ratio, points at similar stages of their careers, style of play, etc...). Please, while it is true that Diaz is not better than Subban or Markov, it is equally true that he has the POTENTIAL to be as good a PMD as Rafalski was. There is nothing you can point to that suggests otherwise.

Drydenwasthebest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 09:56 AM
  #71
EveryDay
Registered User
 
EveryDay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Germany
Posts: 4,888
vCash: 500
Wtf???? Diaz do not compare to Rafalski at all!!!!!!! he's WAY better

No deal for sure from Flyers!!!! Simmonds hold more value then Diaz + Eller IMHO
And keep Talbot out of the conversation please, we have enough $$$ on our bottom 6..

EveryDay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 10:24 AM
  #72
glenbuis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
Would Flyers do Simmonds and a first for Markov? Or Vorachek and first for Markov
As a habs fan I gotta tell you that teams are never gonna give that much for Markov. I think you would be lucky to get Simmonds alone, Voracek alone or a first alone. Would you give our first this year and a promising young player for a 34 year old with his injury history like Markov's? I think it would be a steal to get Simmonds alone but i really doubt Holmgren would do that.

glenbuis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 10:34 AM
  #73
Chacal667
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Andrei Markov is clearly the Canadiens best defenseman thus far and since his return, P.K. Subban is also playing at a level clearly better than Diaz.

If you think Diaz is the Canadiens best defenseman this season, you are simply not paying attention.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

Markov played his worst game of the season vs the islanders Thursday and he didn't put 1 single point in his last 6 games, while diaz continue to produce. The guy play in PP, PK and a lil bit over 20min/game. He is at 1 point to lead the team in scoring points and this is only his second season.

Like I said he was the best dman in Switzerland during the lockout and that include the other nhlers who played in the same league.

Anyway you can believe whatever you want and you can laugh at me and all the nhl thinkers that believe the same thing, we r in a free world, but we will see who was right at the end of the season.

Chacal667 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 10:49 AM
  #74
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Actually, it was a very accurate statement. Nobody is saying Diaz IS as good as Rafalski right now. It is fair to say he is COMPARABLE to Rafalski based on a lot of factors (age to games ratio, points at similar stages of their careers, style of play, etc...). Please, while it is true that Diaz is not better than Subban or Markov, it is equally true that he has the POTENTIAL to be as good a PMD as Rafalski was. There is nothing you can point to that suggests otherwise.
That's such a cop out though.

You can pretty much say any player, who realistically still has room to grow, has the potential to become any player of a similar play style.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 10:53 AM
  #75
Chacal667
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That's such a cop out though.

You can pretty much say any player, who realistically still has room to grow, has the potential to become any player of a similar play style.
sure, why not, especially when that player have a ton of succes.

Chacal667 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:14 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.