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ATD 2013 Draft Draft Thread IV

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Old
02-23-2013, 10:45 AM
  #726
monster_bertuzzi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
Joel Otto was the guy who I thought would be gone by 416, but would be a horrible reach at 353. In a division with a team that has Messier and Lindros, one team has to have Joel Otto. That will be me.
I can think of a different large bottom 6 C I would rather have to go up against those two.

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02-23-2013, 10:52 AM
  #727
Johnny Engine
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
I can think of a different large bottom 6 C I would rather have to go up against those two.
Perhaps. I had a list of them, with Otto at the top. Your guy was very likely second or third.

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02-23-2013, 10:54 AM
  #728
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I would wait for MOdo, but I'm at work and cant. Can someone please PM the next GM up?

The Pittsburgh Bankers select C Vladimir Shadrin

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02-23-2013, 11:02 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by JFA87-66-99 View Post
I would wait for MOdo, but I'm at work and cant. Can someone please PM the next GM up?

The Pittsburgh Bankers select C Vladimir Shadrin
PM sent.

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Old
02-23-2013, 11:08 AM
  #730
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Originally Posted by JFA87-66-99 View Post
I would wait for MOdo, but I'm at work and cant. Can someone please PM the next GM up?

The Pittsburgh Bankers select C Vladimir Shadrin
Shadrin is an interesting player. He spent a good number of years as the defensive conscience of the Yakushev - Shadrin - Maltsev line at the national team level. He also centered a line with Yakushev at Spartak, and they seem to have been a good team. He is known as the greatest Soviet penalty-killer of all time, and while he wasn't the biggest scorer, puckcarriers in the Soviet league are somewhat underrated because the league did not count second assists. I think Shadrin is probably a pretty good two-way third liner. He's not physical, but he brings everything else you look for in a checkingline pivot, and he's a legit 1st unit PKer. A nice pick at this point.

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02-23-2013, 11:16 AM
  #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
I can think of a different large bottom 6 C I would rather have to go up against those two.
I doubt there's any other center who was able to neutralize Messier quite like Otto did. But I'll wait and see who is on your mind.

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02-23-2013, 12:01 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Shadrin is an interesting player. He spent a good number of years as the defensive conscience of the Yakushev - Shadrin - Maltsev line at the national team level. He also centered a line with Yakushev at Spartak, and they seem to have been a good team. He is known as the greatest Soviet penalty-killer of all time, and while he wasn't the biggest scorer, puckcarriers in the Soviet league are somewhat underrated because the league did not count second assists. I think Shadrin is probably a pretty good two-way third liner. He's not physical, but he brings everything else you look for in a checkingline pivot, and he's a legit 1st unit PKer. A nice pick at this point.
Vladimir Shadrin is a player I've had on my radar for awhile now. The more I learn about him the more I like him. Underrated offensive player and very good defensively.

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02-23-2013, 12:09 PM
  #733
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Sorry for the wait, all.

Dawson City selects a pair of goal-scoring wingers: Charlie Simmer, LW, and Reggie Leach, RW.

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Old
02-23-2013, 12:35 PM
  #734
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Trail selects Glen Harmon, D



Quote:
A sound positional defenseman with the offensive skills to support his forwards, Harmon was an able skater who could carry the puck himself or relay it to teammates with his crisp, sharp passes.
The quick Harmon will be paired next to the slower Allan Stanley.

LL texted.


Last edited by Velociraptor: 02-23-2013 at 12:40 PM.
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Old
02-23-2013, 12:39 PM
  #735
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Yeah, Glen Harmon is a great pick here. I see very little separating him from Leo Reise.

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02-23-2013, 12:40 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Yeah, Glen Harmon is a great pick here. I see very little separating him from Leo Reise.
Very nice bio you constructed last year, his speed was the dealbreaker for me.

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02-23-2013, 12:46 PM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
Joel Otto was the guy who I thought would be gone by 416, but would be a horrible reach at 353. In a division with a team that has Messier and Lindros, one team has to have Joel Otto. That will be me.
hahaha makes sense to me

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02-23-2013, 12:54 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Yeah, Glen Harmon is a great pick here. I see very little separating him from Leo Reise.
Both were two-time second team all stars. But one of Harmon's AS spots was pretty weak.

In 1944-45, many top players were off to war, including Jack Stewart and Ken Reardon. Here is the AS voting from that season:

Butch Bouchard, Mtl 340.5 (15-10-1-0); Flash Hollett, Det 273 (1-12-5-7); Babe Pratt, Tor 93.5 (1-1-5-9); Glen Harmon, Mtl 60 (2-1-1-0); Frank Eddolls, Mtl 58.5 (1-0-2-1); Jack Crawford, Bos 57 (3-2-4-0); Earl Seibert, Chi 45 (0-1-6-2)

Basically Harmon squeaked in ahead of three other guys (two of whom received a higher number of votes in a funky weighted voting system) during a war-depleted season.

His 1948-49 AS season looks legit, as do both of Reise's.

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02-23-2013, 12:58 PM
  #739
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I have LL's list, he selects Dale Hunter, C

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Old
02-23-2013, 12:59 PM
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Both were two-time second team all stars. But one of Harmon's AS spots was pretty weak.

In 1944-45, many top players were off to war, including Jack Stewart and Ken Reardon. Here is the AS voting from that season:

Butch Bouchard, Mtl 340.5 (15-10-1-0); Flash Hollett, Det 273 (1-12-5-7); Babe Pratt, Tor 93.5 (1-1-5-9); Glen Harmon, Mtl 60 (2-1-1-0); Frank Eddolls, Mtl 58.5 (1-0-2-1); Jack Crawford, Bos 57 (3-2-4-0); Earl Seibert, Chi 45 (0-1-6-2)

Basically Harmon squeaked in ahead of three other guys (two of whom received a higher number of votes in a funky weighted voting system) during a war-depleted season.

His 1948-49 AS season looks legit, as do both of Reise's.
Yeah but in this situation, where he beat out defensemen like Crawford and Seibert, does it really matter that it was a war depleted season?

Also, he has three other seasons of all-star votes, outside of the war years.

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:17 PM
  #741
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This conditional trade is accepted by Chicago, and needs to be processed in the OP...

To Minnesota Fighting Saints (Nalyd Psycho): 411, 413
To Chicago Shamrocks (Hawkey Town 18): 389, 453


With pick #389 Chicago selects Bob Nevin, RW

Plans could change, but right now we will slot Nevin next to Paul Thompson and Frank Fredrickson to form a 2-way 2nd line.

Here are some stats from seventies' bio on Nevin.

- 6'0", 185 lbs
- Stanley Cup (1962, 1963)
- Placed 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th in RW All-Star Voting
- Top-20 in Goals 4 Times (7th, 12th, 14th, 14th)
- Top-20 in Assists Twice (10th, 13th)
- Top-20 in Points 3 Times (8th, 12th, 19th)
- Top-20 in ESP 4 Times (9th, 11th, 11th, 16th)
- Killed 45% of his team's penalties post-expansion
- NY Rangers' Captain for 6 seasons (1965-1971)

Full bio found here

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:18 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Seriously?

Hawerchuk was considered one of the best few centers in the league.

The only reason he isn't higher relatively is because he had much tougher competition at center than Perreault did.

You know, Gretzky, Lemieux....
Swing and a miss.

This has nothing to do with who is better between Gilbert Perreault and Dale Hawerchuk. It is about how the competition in the ATD compares to certain times in the NHL. Even in he was lined with Hawerchuk, Rene Robert would have a ,relatively, much weaker center than he did in real life.


When he played in the NHL, Robert played with one of the best centers in the league. Does he get to do that in the ATD?

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:21 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Litz is a good pick here. I think he went too early in the past largely due to pappy's influence, including when I had him on my 2nd line in ATD#10 (he's the one player on those championship teams I feel like I "got away with" in retrospect), but he's a solid value here. A nice, but brief, offensive peak:

Ed Litzenberger Vs2:
85, 78, 75, 69, 49

Those numbers are basically in backwards chronological order to his actual peak, and he seemed to be getting better every season until the tragic car crash which killed his wife and took away his speed. To his credit, he was able to reinvent himself as a checker and utillity player in Toronto, which should say something about his all-around game, though more specific information would be good. Somewhat embarassingly, I know little about Litz's intangibles in spite of having owned him. I think Litz could have been a hall of famer if not for that incident, but it is what it is.
Thanks for replying. I do my research, but when no one posts I'm not sure what guys think. I haven't solicited a second opinion since round 6, because I want my team to be my own, so it's nice to get feedback.

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:32 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Yeah but in this situation, where he beat out defensemen like Crawford and Seibert, does it really matter that it was a war depleted season?

Also, he has three other seasons of all-star votes, outside of the war years.
Harmon "beat out" Crawford and Seibert by receiving 4 votes to their 9. Only the weighted voting system put Harmon ahead - meaning that Crawford and Seibert were probably getting relatively less valuable Montreal or Toronto votes.

Anyway, it's not a bad season, just not the equal of Leo Reise's AS seasons. During both of Reise's AS seasons he was named on every possible 6-name ballot (5 in 49-50, 18 in 50-51). Harmon was also on every possible six-name ballot in 48-49. But in 1944-45 Harmon was named on 4 of 27 4-name ballots in a war year and got a second-team AS spot for it.

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:46 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
When he played in the NHL, Robert played with one of the best centers in the league. Does he get to do that in the ATD?
yes ... Dale Hawerchuk

both have four top-10 placements in Hart voting, with Hawerchuk having the better finishes (placing second after some plug named Gretzky)
Hawerchuk: 2,5,6,7
Perreault: 5,7,7,10

so, they're both pretty comparable. therefore, I'm confused where you see this drop off...
also, any advantage Robert may lose playing with Hawerchuk (which, personally, I don't see) he gains back playing with Kharlamov.

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:51 PM
  #746
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and Reggie Leach, RW.
****.

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:02 PM
  #747
Hawkey Town 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papershoes View Post
yes ... Dale Hawerchuk

both have four top-10 placements in Hart voting, with Hawerchuk having the better finishes (placing second after some plug named Gretzky)
Hawerchuk: 2,5,6,7
Perreault: 5,7,7,10

so, they're both pretty comparable. therefore, I'm confused where you see this drop off...
also, any advantage Robert may lose playing with Hawerchuk (which, personally, I don't see) he gains back playing with Kharlamov.
Dreakmur is saying that in real life Robert got to play with an elite center, but in the ATD he is playing with a below average 1st line center/high end 2nd line center

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02-23-2013, 02:12 PM
  #748
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yes ... Dale Hawerchuk

both have four top-10 placements in Hart voting, with Hawerchuk having the better finishes (placing second after some plug named Gretzky)
Hawerchuk: 2,5,6,7
Perreault: 5,7,7,10

so, they're both pretty comparable. therefore, I'm confused where you see this drop off...
also, any advantage Robert may lose playing with Hawerchuk (which, personally, I don't see) he gains back playing with Kharlamov.
Based on Perreault's scoring finishes, you're saying Robert played alongside a guy who was variously the 5th, 7th or 10th best forward in the league.
Based on draft position, the 5th, 7th and 10th best forwards in this league are Mikita, Richard and Jagr.

Kharlamov might be on the outer reaches of that galaxy, but Hawerchuk is in a different universe.

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:16 PM
  #749
Dreakmur
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****.
4 out of 5 stars? That IS a good pick!

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02-23-2013, 02:40 PM
  #750
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I've got Hawerchuk and Perreault in the same tier of centers, and it's a pretty widely dispersed group in terms of draft position, going all the way down to Barry and Thornton. Perreault's perceived superiority to the other centers in his peer group is most likely a persistent artifact of the awful THN Top-100 list, which was one of the cornerstones of the ATD back in the stone age.
Perreault was the most talented of all of them.

Just ask New York Rangers fans how they like Rick Nash at the moment , it's not because of his productivity per say , it's because he's dangerous and dominating everytime he enters the offensive zone , even if he doesn't score.That can be tiring for the other team and make them nervous , even if that domination doesn't always translate to goals.I think the same was true with Perreault on a higher level.

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