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Old
02-22-2013, 09:34 AM
  #26
disturbedraven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It's not about 'getting rid of Markov' its about maximizing a return for him.
No use arguing that around here, people love the fuzzy feeling of having Markov on the back end rather than moving the team forward. I love Markov as much as the next guy, but seems that you and I are the few who can see the forest for the trees

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Old
02-22-2013, 09:36 AM
  #27
GalHabsGal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
Why stop with Markov? Let's maximizes Pleks, Diaz, Patches, Cole, hell let's maximizes Subban, Gallagher and Galchenyuk and Price.

If Yzerman has a heat stroke in Tampa and calls Bergevin offering Stamkos for Markov, you would have to be a fool to say no but we both know that ain't gonna happen.

We'll never get the value that Markov means to this team. Right now he's a direct mentor to Emelin and I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't mentoring Diaz and Subban. We have Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn and Ellis coming up the next two, three years. You need a smart, accomplished veteran to help these youngster along.

Sometimes the value of a player isn't just what you see on the ice. Hell even Price admitted Markov gave him a kick in the ass that he needed.
200% true

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Old
02-22-2013, 09:46 AM
  #28
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
You're obssessed with selling everybody...
I want us to build towards a cup. It's a means to an end. The logo on the front is more important than the name on the back.
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Markov's not going anywhere till the end of his contract, deal with it.
I don't expect him to be dealt (just like I didn't expect Koivu to be dealt) that doesn't mean it's not the right idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
Why stop with Markov?
Because he's the guy it makes sense to deal. High value and can help a team win now. And we can use the return to win in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
Let's maximizes Pleks, Diaz, Patches, Cole, hell let's maximizes Subban, Gallagher and Galchenyuk and Price.

If Yzerman has a heat stroke in Tampa and calls Bergevin offering Stamkos for Markov, you would have to be a fool to say no but we both know that ain't gonna happen.

We'll never get the value that Markov means to this team. Right now he's a direct mentor to Emelin and I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't mentoring Diaz and Subban. We have Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn and Ellis coming up the next two, three years. You need a smart, accomplished veteran to help these youngster along.

Sometimes the value of a player isn't just what you see on the ice. Hell even Price admitted Markov gave him a kick in the ass that he needed.
Yeah right... he's awesome, awesome, awesome but we'd never get anything for him.

Stop being silly.

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Old
02-22-2013, 09:58 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I want us to build towards a cup. It's a means to an end. The logo on the front is more important than the name on the back.

I don't expect him to be dealt (just like I didn't expect Koivu to be dealt) that doesn't mean it's not the right idea.

Because he's the guy it makes sense to deal. High value and can help a team win now. And we can use the return to win in the future.


Yeah right... he's awesome, awesome, awesome but we'd never get anything for him.

Stop being silly.
Koivu was not dealt, he just wasn't re-signed. Which was one of the biggest mistakes made in the last 10 years. But that's just my opinion.

As for Markov, you need veteran presence on D. We don't have that many veterans left on D. You always need a mix of young and older guys to have a winning team. Keeping skilled veterans is always good to share knowledge, experience and usually gives a calming presence for the kids.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:26 PM
  #30
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This roster still needs markov. Yeah, he's not exactly the same player, but he's still good, and can chew up quality minutes. These types aren't all that easy to replace, and you will feel a negative effect if you just move him without filling the void.

I've been saying since last year that the habs need more of an interior presence on D to protect price. Although the team is more competitive this year, I don't think teams are very hesitant to get in and around the crease area against this team. A crease clearer will make price look better, and make the opposition's life a bit harder.

I was hoping for a bryan allen type to fill the void.

Its not that the D is looking bad, but it seems a little imbalanced to me. Its generally a mobile and puck moving core, but just missing that presence I'm talking about.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:34 PM
  #31
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Despite Habs young players developping well and at a good pace, here what I think Habs' need to become a real cup favorite:

A true #1 d-man
A guy that can take charge of a game by himself. A real 30+ minutes beast. Markov won't be that d-man anymore. Subban may get close to it, but not there yet. I'm sceptikal he will become one.

A true Physical Stay-at-home d-man with intimidating presence.
Tinordi could become that, but it remains to be seen

Another Prust-like player with more offense
A type of Hartnell or Clarkson. Someone who would intimidate the opposing d-men like a fourth liner, but who's gonna score goals. Right now, beside the fourth line and the limited Prust, nobody is intimidating the opposing d-men.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:42 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post

We'll never get the value that Markov means to this team. Right now he's a direct mentor to Emelin and I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't mentoring Diaz and Subban. We have Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn and Ellis coming up the next two, three years. You need a smart, accomplished veteran to help these youngster along.

Sometimes the value of a player isn't just what you see on the ice. Hell even Price admitted Markov gave him a kick in the ass that he needed.

amen, people are just mad at him because of the way he played the past couple of games... the guy is indeed having a hard time keeping up right now, but he's still one of the players i'd like to see stay with the habs until the end of his career for everything he does, and for everything he represents

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Old
02-22-2013, 04:41 PM
  #33
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Bouque-Plekanec-Gally/Leblanc*
Patches-Galchenyuk-Cole
**-Eller-Leblanc/Gally*
Moen-White/Dumont-Prust

*If gally is groomed 2-way, if not give the shot to Louis Lebust.
**: Sound 2 way hockey player. Likely has size and playmaking ability. Bournival might be a fit ? Holland?
Gionta, Armstrong and DD are out.

Gorges-Subban
Tinordi*-Diaz
Markov-Emelin*
Bouillon
*:If tinordi can handle the right side better, switch them.
Suddenly our D is alot tougher to play against.

The only real acquisition we need to be making is one winger or two if Leblanc really gets no love and Holland/Bournival get no shot at it.

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Old
02-23-2013, 12:18 AM
  #34
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerdom View Post
Koivu was not dealt, he just wasn't re-signed. Which was one of the biggest mistakes made in the last 10 years. But that's just my opinion.

As for Markov, you need veteran presence on D. We don't have that many veterans left on D. You always need a mix of young and older guys to have a winning team. Keeping skilled veterans is always good to share knowledge, experience and usually gives a calming presence for the kids.
We really don't need him. I'm sorry but we don't. Subban developed fine without him. As for Markov being a leader... I've seen no evidence of this. He's surly to the cameras and seems downright rude sometimes. People assume he's a leader in the dressing room but who really knows? Besides we've got Subban who's great and Gorges can assume the role of elder statesman now.

I suspect we're going to waste him the way we wasted Koivu. Makes a lot of sense to deal him. We won't though.

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Old
02-23-2013, 12:45 AM
  #35
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LePoche nailed it.

Probably have to get rid of DD as well and let Eller take his place.

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:08 AM
  #36
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As long as we dont have Cole and Kaberle next year, im happy.

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:15 AM
  #37
Price My Man Crush
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Nobody has said faceoffs?

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Old
02-23-2013, 09:30 AM
  #38
disturbedraven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mover View Post
Nobody has said faceoffs?
probably because they have been better over recent games, however, I attribute this to facing weaker teams (ie Isles). It's still a problem that needs to be addressed. But if that was our biggest problem then I'd be fine with that

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Old
02-23-2013, 10:32 AM
  #39
canadiensnation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockjngo View Post
I think our defense needs some work.


Defensemen we should replace:
Markov- I don't think he's the same Markov everyone thinks he is. At least not anymore, he's slower, too many 2-1 breaks. The book on him is he doesn't shoot the puck in the powerplay so everyone knows there's not need to cover Markov. At $5,750,000 with a modified NTC, its very hard to move Markov. Moving him would change the atmosphere in the back end and allow PK Subban to lead this team. Luckily he's only got a 1 year left on his contract.

Kaberle- A huge waste of roster and cap space. At $4,250,000, its really hard to move him this year. We might end up buying him out in the summer. Unless a team is really desperate come trading deadline.

Gorges- I am not a fan of Gorges. He's very limited in terms of puck skills and creativity in the offensive zone. He's not a strong guy nor does he block that many shots. At $3,900,000 and a full NTC it's a pipe dream to move him.


Defensemen we should keep:
Subban- I'm wondering why he isn't leading this team in icetime. He's big and strong and can pretty much do anything. He's quick and has a blast from the point. I believe we are under using Subban.

Diaz-Though I'm not a fan of Diaz, I think he moves the puck very well. A very smart player in both ends of the ice. Rarely do I see him turn the puck over. We can use more players like Diaz but bigger.

Bouillon-I'm a Bouillon fan, he's small but he's build like a ox. I notice this is a very different Bouillon than the lost time he was here. He moves the puck very well out of our zone and hits when needed. Too bad he's 37.

Emelin- is a very good 6th defenseman, I like his size and the way he plays the game. He's also among the league's top hitters. We need this time of player for the playoffs.
What?

2005-2006: 76 blocked shots in 49 games (with SJS)
2006-2007: 76 blocked shots in 54 games (split time between MTL(7) and SJS(47))
2007-2008: 101 blocked shots, while only playing 62 games.
2008-2009: 16th (in the league) with 161 blocked shots.
2009-2010: 12th (in the league) with 158 blocked shots.
2010-2011: 79 blocked shots, while only playing 33 games.
2011-2012: 1st (in the league) with 250 blocked shots, 51 ahead of the 2nd place guy (Brett Clark).
2012-2013: 3rd (in the league) with 46 blocked shots, 1 behind 1st and 2nd place.

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Old
02-23-2013, 10:37 AM
  #40
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Did you really say that Gorges doesn't block many shots? I mean he led the league by 50 last year, and he's third in the NHL this year. What more do you need?

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Old
02-23-2013, 10:52 AM
  #41
disturbedraven
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Originally Posted by JesusBouillon View Post
Did you really say that Gorges doesn't block many shots? I mean he led the league by 50 last year, and he's third in the NHL this year. What more do you need?
Obviously he needs better research skills if he wants to try and make an opinion that people will take seriously from here on out. Any fool can spout out an opinion, but unless you got facts straight than its just another useless opinion with no merit.

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Old
02-23-2013, 12:07 PM
  #42
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Yet another thread where you would think that the Habs are out of the playoff hunt and someone seems to think that a GM from another team will give a great return on a player that they believe to be overrated and/or overpaid. Why not trade Pacioretty now to maximize our return? I doubt that he continues to average 1.33 goals/game, as he has done over the last three games.

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Old
02-23-2013, 12:36 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Jake5 View Post
get rid of Markov/Gorges, keep Bouillon ......riiiiiiiight


also..Gorges is #2 in the league (1 block behind the leader) in blocked shots, yet he doesn't block that many according to you? not following your logic here
And did he not lead the league by a fair margin last year in blocked shots as well?

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Old
02-23-2013, 12:46 PM
  #44
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by CTHabsfan View Post
Yet another thread where you would think that the Habs are out of the playoff hunt and someone seems to think that a GM from another team will give a great return on a player that they believe to be overrated and/or overpaid. Why not trade Pacioretty now to maximize our return? I doubt that he continues to average 1.33 goals/game, as he has done over the last three games.
Because Max is 23. Markov is 34. Do the math.

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:00 PM
  #45
CTHabsfan
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Because Max is 23. Markov is 34. Do the math.
Apparently, you don't get sarcasm.

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:25 PM
  #46
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You can't trade Markov. Sure he's getting older and slower but good LORD! If we have ever had a franchise player in the last 15 years he is it. Especially with modern statistical data on W/L ratios. The guy is highly respected among players and coaches as well. He knows the game better than his physical abilities are, or ever have been.

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Old
02-23-2013, 04:01 PM
  #47
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by CTHabsfan View Post
Apparently, you don't get sarcasm.
We all got it dude. It was just a fail on your part that's all.
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Originally Posted by cphabs View Post
You can't trade Markov. Sure he's getting older and slower but good LORD! If we have ever had a franchise player in the last 15 years he is it.
He wasn't a franchise player and it doesn't matter. What matters is trying to win a cup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cphabs View Post
Especially with modern statistical data on W/L ratios. The guy is highly respected among players and coaches as well. He knows the game better than his physical abilities are, or ever have been.
That's why he'd fetch a good return.

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Old
02-23-2013, 04:14 PM
  #48
StellerEller
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I doubt we get fair value for Markov. He's worth more to keep than to sell, that is if we give him appropriate minutes. I suspect he will move down in the depth chart starting next year, when Subban will be ready for permanent #1D status.

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Old
02-23-2013, 04:25 PM
  #49
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Tinordi, Beaaulieu, pateryn, Ellis, nygren, are all making a solid case for themselves.

Some of our dmen will be in the way out.

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Old
02-23-2013, 04:32 PM
  #50
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Defenseman with more Spatial awareness would be superb.

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