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Ryan O'Reilly Headed to Offer Sheet or Trade (Part 4)

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Old
02-23-2013, 05:59 AM
  #126
MikeC
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Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
Sorry, were just the foundations of a trade not the finished product.

They have hockey on TV?????

The fondation still have to be solide

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02-23-2013, 06:34 AM
  #127
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Do you realize how high our 2013 first could be? We are looking at possibly a top 5 pick... Our first isn't moving as part of any deal at this point.

O'Reilly + Elliott for Little + Trouba is fair, O'Reilly having more value than Little and Trouba having more value than Elliott.
Current value may be close, but I want no part of any trade involving Trouba. The Jets are no where near a win now mode, and Trouba has way too much potential to trade away before seeing what he develops into.

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02-23-2013, 06:37 AM
  #128
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Yes there is that potential, but where would Trouba be if the 2012 draft was re-done? Some say he will be the best D of the draft. There's much less risk taking Trouba instead of a 1st. There's also the time factor as well.



Not fully educated on Elliott, but my point was a "decent" prospect, not an elite one.
Elliott is still very raw. His defensive game sucks at the moment, but offensively he has talent to put up a lot of points. He's good prospect, but more like high-risk high reward.

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02-23-2013, 08:24 AM
  #129
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How many GMs secretly applaud Avs and Habs for their RFA signings (non signings)?

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02-23-2013, 08:33 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
How many GMs secretly applaud Avs and Habs for their RFA signings (non signings)?
Obviously you know so why don't you enlighten us about how the other GM's don't care about an overrated 2nd line center and are just going to use an offer sheet because the Avs overvalue their player.

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02-23-2013, 09:16 AM
  #131
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Quite a lot. He could be a franchise D-man. That's the problem, we only have four pieces to trade that you'd be interested and they're all valuable. I would say Trouba the most valuable. To put a number to it, I would say Little is worth 65% of ROR and Trouba maybe 75%.

I would say your 1st for 2013 and a decent prospect. Something like that, just throwing it out there.

You have to realize you're taking half of our decent prospects.
And O'reilly could be a franchise center... I would be willing to add a decent prospect but remember that's all they are, prospects. Now I think Trouba could be very good but I wouldn't add a first to him when we could end up drafting a player even better with that.

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02-23-2013, 09:24 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
How many GMs secretly applaud Avs and Habs for their RFA signings (non signings)?
I suspect that Bettman et al. made it clear to the owners that the most effective way to control costs is to stop paying players coming off of entry level contract as if they were free agents.

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02-23-2013, 09:57 AM
  #133
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The Avs dont want to pay him like a 1st liner,but they want other teams to pay for him like he was.They need to make up their minds! Either he is and pay him like it,or he isnt and stop asking for the moon.The Avs(and their fans)need to get realistic and lower their expectations.

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02-23-2013, 09:58 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by avsfan09 View Post
And O'reilly could be a franchise center... I would be willing to add a decent prospect but remember that's all they are, prospects. Now I think Trouba could be very good but I wouldn't add a first to him when we could end up drafting a player even better with that.
I don't think I'd place the franchise tag near O'reilly. He can be a core player, no question, but more in the sense of a Kesler or a Richards. Great defensive players with offensive upside and leadership qualities. But these guys aren't franchise players. Keep in mind, I don't think there are a ton of franchise guys in this league. Crosby,Malkin,Stamkos,Tavares,Weber etc. The elite of the elite.

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02-23-2013, 10:04 AM
  #135
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The whole thing that can be scary with any team dealing a player that's proven at the NHL level (O'Reilly) for potential (prospects like Grigs/Trouba/etc)

Yes they are good prospects, they certainly are. But even with the advancements in NHL Scouting today, being a 1st Round pick, even a Top 5, doesn't guarantee the success will translate, something can always happen.

And it's not as if a package of ROR and Elliott for Little and Trouba is bad because of Age, hell, Little's the oldest one in that package and he's only what, 24/25?

Last year was the 1st year that ROR could show what he could do when given an offensive role, and he started coming out of his shell a bit. I imagine with more ice time (the Avs split time amongst all 3 C's last year) but if he were given LEGITIMATE Top-2 ice time he could put up more points.

And it's not as if Elliott is a scrub, he did get some NHL time last year and showed that he can produce. Does he need help with his Defensive side of the game? He sure does, and I won't say he doesn't, nor should any other Avs Poster in this thread.

But, like Barrie, I think he needs time in the NHL to help get adapted, and if he gets paired with a more Defensive-minded partner, that's going to be the best thing for him.

But let me summarize with this. Because I can understand the Jets and their fans not wanting to part with Trouba, so I understand the hesitance on that, fully, I don't want to present what I'm saying as a reason why you should take this deal.

But with that being said, I still firmly believe that Winnipeg is the dark horse in all of this. Other teams may, in the media, "make sense" and they'll talk about them (Ottawa, Buffalo, etc.) and other teams just get into the picture for who knows why and it makes the news (NYR). But I think that the Jets are the actual team that everyone should be worried about when it comes to acquiring this guy

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Old
02-23-2013, 10:06 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
The Avs dont want to pay him like a 1st liner,but they want other teams to pay for him like he was.They need to make up their minds! Either he is and pay him like it,or he isnt and stop asking for the moon.The Avs(and their fans)need to get realistic and lower their expectations.
It's not the same at all man. Gotta keep in mind that we just had a lockout that was ALL due to money.

The Avs value him highly, but they don't want to be responsible for inflating 2nd contracts after an RFA comes off of ELC.

The Avalanche own his rights until he is 27, so they can either wait for Ryan O'Reilly to sign the contract offer they made for him, or for a team to make an offer they can't refuse.

To do otherwise is shortsighted and detrimental to the rebuild.

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02-23-2013, 10:09 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
The Avs dont want to pay him like a 1st liner,but they want other teams to pay for him like he was.They need to make up their minds! Either he is and pay him like it,or he isnt and stop asking for the moon.The Avs(and their fans)need to get realistic and lower their expectations.
That defeats the whole point of restricted free agency. Teams have the leverage so they don't have to commit large sums on money and term to young players.

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02-23-2013, 10:19 AM
  #138
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I would prefer a proven player like Bogosian coming back rather than a high end prospect. It's a safer deal for us. If we had ROR in the lineup then we'd have a player contributing consistently.

With a prospect, maybe one like Kreider ends up being better than ROR but why take that risk? It's a trade where they should try to keep status quo imo rather than gambling which is what all other teams want.

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02-23-2013, 10:30 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Kloparren View Post
I would prefer a proven player like Bogosian coming back rather than a high end prospect. It's a safer deal for us. If we had ROR in the lineup then we'd have a player contributing consistently.

With a prospect, maybe one like Kreider ends up being better than ROR but why take that risk? It's a trade where they should try to keep status quo imo rather than gambling which is what all other teams want.
No need to bring Bogo into this. He is the the closest to an untouchable as the Jets have. He is loved in Winnipeg and he keeps saying how much he loves playing there. He our top 2 way D at 22 and has the total skill set to be a true #1. You thought Jets fans were reluctant throwing Trouba in, the mere mention of Bogosian will get the whole Jets board fired up.

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02-23-2013, 10:52 AM
  #140
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Not only that, our injuries preclude any D being included in the deal.

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02-23-2013, 10:55 AM
  #141
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My offer from the Sens and i would not give more..

Col

Zibby
Wier
Puemple

Ott

ROR
Barrie

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02-23-2013, 11:01 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
How many GMs secretly applaud Avs and Habs for their RFA signings (non signings)?
Every one of them. You can't pay players based on one year performance and based on potential. You pay based on consistency, delivery and performance. Especially for the kind of money he's asking for.


O'Reilley will be a great contributor to a team, maybe a Pavelski or Callahan type of player. Those who think he's a franchise center, you are only deluding yourself.

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02-23-2013, 11:03 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by CarknerCountry View Post
My offer from the Sens and i would not give more..

Col

Zibby
Wier
Puemple

Ott

ROR
Barrie

Ouch...Avs could be giving up the two best players. Especially if Zibs doesn't develop and reach the high high expectations of him.

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02-23-2013, 11:21 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by CarknerCountry View Post
My offer from the Sens and i would not give more..

Col

Zibby
Wier
Puemple

Ott

ROR
Barrie
ottawa wont do this

i think ottawa thinks highly of weir


and i rather have him than barrie

there really is no point in getting barrie from ottawa perspective


Last edited by HSF: 02-23-2013 at 11:32 AM.
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02-23-2013, 11:31 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
Quite a lot. He could be a franchise D-man. That's the problem, we only have four pieces to trade that you'd be interested and they're all valuable. I would say Trouba the most valuable. To put a number to it, I would say Little is worth 65% of ROR and Trouba maybe 75%.

I would say your 1st for 2013 and a decent prospect. Something like that, just throwing it out there.

You have to realize you're taking half of our decent prospects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Do you realize how high our 2013 first could be? We are looking at possibly a top 5 pick... Our first isn't moving as part of any deal at this point.

O'Reilly + Elliott for Little + Trouba is fair, O'Reilly having more value than Little and Trouba having more value than Elliott.
I disagree with allan5oh's assessment of Little and Trouba's worth compared to ROR. Little is getting massively underrated. He is much closer to ROR than 65%. He's only 4 years older than ROR and has produced more at both the junior and NHL level to date. No way should ROR commmand a premium in addition to a guy like Little. A bit could be added due to age and the "potential" question, but no where near the Jets top prospects or high picks.

If Little or Burmistrov are involved, I wouldn't add anything near guys like Scheifele, Trouba, Lowry, or our 1st round picks.

Elliot is a nice prospect, but Trouba is the guy the Jets need.

So a big No to Little and Trouba for ROR and Elliot from this Jets fan. It's not even close for me.

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02-23-2013, 11:51 AM
  #146
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I know Little's a long term Sherman target, and those have worked out well for us, but I'd hate for him to be the centerpiece of a ROR trade. I'd much rather gamble a little more on upside, and prefer a dman to a winger. I'm gunna bring up Kuli-ROR as a basis for a deal again cause that's my best case scenario. Ryan joins Colorado-East, and we get that young lefty to play with EJ.

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02-23-2013, 12:23 PM
  #147
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I know Little's a long term Sherman target, and those have worked out well for us, but I'd hate for him to be the centerpiece of a ROR trade. I'd much rather gamble a little more on upside, and prefer a dman to a winger. I'm gunna bring up Kuli-ROR as a basis for a deal again cause that's my best case scenario. Ryan joins Colorado-East, and we get that young lefty to play with EJ.
Thought you meant Kulemin for a minute there. Was confused because why would we want an underachieving winger for our centerman. I realize now you mean Kulikov and any dman that can jump into the line up now is preferable. I'm not one that feels as though defensive prospects are worth a lot.

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02-23-2013, 12:32 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
The whole thing that can be scary with any team dealing a player that's proven at the NHL level (O'Reilly) for potential (prospects like Grigs/Trouba/etc)
I agree. Let's assume that Buffalo and Colorado deal around O'Reilly and Grigorenko. If both of them fully develop into what they could be, Colorado wins the deal.

But O'Reilly is more developed, and because of that, more of a sure thing. So Buffalo's taking a chance on Grigorenko not developing for the better chance that O'Reilly meets his potential, since he's closer to it.

Philly and LA took that chance last year. I have my doubts that Darcy Regier has the gumption to pull that type of deal off.

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02-23-2013, 01:29 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by CarknerCountry View Post
My offer from the Sens and i would not give more..

Col

Zibby
Wier
Puemple

Ott

ROR
Barrie
ROR>Zib
Barrie>Wier+Puempel

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02-23-2013, 01:42 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by CarknerCountry View Post
My offer from the Sens and i would not give more..

Col

Zibby
Wier
Puemple

Ott

ROR
Barrie
Colorado passes.

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