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Who is the 5th best NHL player of all time?

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Old
02-23-2013, 12:54 PM
  #101
Maaxse
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Anyone who doesn't say Maurice Richard is daft.

I'd make the argument that while he isn't the best hockey player (Lemieux, Orr, Gretzky are better), he is the greatest. In hockey, no one will never carry the hopes of a whole culture like the Rocket did.

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02-23-2013, 01:01 PM
  #102
longchange
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamonDRW View Post
Bobby Hull. Counting his WHA career he scored more than 900 goals implying that he had a chance to be the first in scoring.

He can also be cosidered as best of all time.

PS Didn't see luch of Orr tapes compared to, say, Hull but something tells me he is a bit overhyped. It is American culture to love one single moment not the whole career.
No offense, but this is one of the most uneducated comments on this forum. You really need to go back and take a look at Orr's entire career (and perhaps learn about American culture?).

Personally, I am torn between Hull, Richard, and Beliveau at number 5. Wouldn't argue any of them being there...

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02-23-2013, 01:02 PM
  #103
Mr Forever
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Jim Dowd?

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:05 PM
  #104
qc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamonDRW View Post
PS Didn't see luch of Orr tapes compared to, say, Hull but something tells me he is a bit overhyped. It is American culture to love one single moment not the whole career.
I hope it isn't Fin culture to have an opinion despite having no information.

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02-23-2013, 01:07 PM
  #105
Lafleurs Guy
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Rocket Richard.


Bobby Hull, Doug Harvey, Jacques Plante, Jean Beliveau and Eddy Shore could make claims to that spot as well. Richard gets my vote.

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02-23-2013, 01:13 PM
  #106
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by IEC View Post
Jagr has to be considered, but he is not canadian or american so it is not even worth mentioning him.
He's not at that level. Lafleur, Messier, Esposito, Yzerman... those are better comparisons.

Jagr's not at the Richard, Hull, Harvey, Beliveau level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishManSam View Post
Lindros imo was the most dominant player to ever play the game.
He was never that dominant. He had mad skills and could've been right up there with Howe as the most complete forward to ever play but he never reached his potential. And he didn't dominate anywhere close to the way the top four players did let alone guys like Richard or Hull.

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02-23-2013, 01:24 PM
  #107
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To the kids on this web site who say Beliveau was a better player than Lafleur is a joke.Lafleur was a much better player than Jean.Lafleur led the team in assists 8 times led the team in scoring 8 times.Would have had 8 or 9 100 pts seasons if not for injuries.People like Howie Meeker who saw and played against Richard and Beleiveau says Lafleur was by far better.Many journalists in Quebec say Lafleur was the best.Lafleur was so far better than his teamates that its a joke to compare.So children go back and have some fun again

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:37 PM
  #108
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Bobby Hull or Richard.

Somebody said Brodeur was 5th? Some of these choices are hilarious.

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02-23-2013, 01:46 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Tough pick, I'd say it is a four-way tie between the Rocket, Doug Harvey, Bobby Hull and Jean Beliveau. Can't go wrong with any of them, but if I have to pick one, I'll go with the Rocket.

Those picking Chelios, Selanne, Lidstrom and Jagr....just stop. You are essentially picking Matt Hasselbeck or Joe Flacco over John Elway just because they are more recent.
I totally disagree with this thought. We're not talking about most legendary players, just flat out best. And Chelios, Selanne, Lidstrom and Jagr all exhibited certain attributes that make them just as likely to be 5th "best" as Bobby Hull or a few other older players.

Just because a player is ancient does not automatically make him better.

I think my vote would be for a goalie. Patrick Roy was the guy who came to mind for me.

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02-23-2013, 01:53 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wunderpanda View Post
Gretzky, Orr, Howe i agree with but I rank Messier and Chelios above Mario. Maybe Lidstrom 5th and Mario 6th
No, you just can't, sorry.

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Old
02-23-2013, 01:54 PM
  #111
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For me it`s probably Hasek. I always find that goalies get way underrated when talking about the best players of all time. Especially considering they play probably to most important position of all. I consider Hasek the best goalie of all time, and I feel like each position should be represented in the top 5.

After Hasek the next few that come to mind for me and Maurice Richard, Bobby Hull, Ray Bourque, or Marc Messier

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02-23-2013, 01:57 PM
  #112
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Ken Dryden, Marcel Dionne, Peter Stastny, Patrick Roy and Ray Bourque are the forgotten of this thread. But I would still put Rocket in 5.

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02-23-2013, 01:59 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by jojoh07 View Post
yzerman is up there if you ask me
same
not gonna pretend i can accurately rank O6 and before players though

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:02 PM
  #114
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thom View Post
To the kids on this web site who say Beliveau was a better player than Lafleur is a joke.Lafleur was a much better player than Jean.Lafleur led the team in assists 8 times led the team in scoring 8 times.Would have had 8 or 9 100 pts seasons if not for injuries.People like Howie Meeker who saw and played against Richard and Beleiveau says Lafleur was by far better.Many journalists in Quebec say Lafleur was the best.Lafleur was so far better than his teamates that its a joke to compare.So children go back and have some fun again
Thing about Lafleur though is it's six seasons. He's brilliant for six seasons and then injuries, age, Lemaire and smoking catch up to him.

Lafleur was a hell of a player though.

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02-23-2013, 02:08 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He's not at that level. Lafleur, Messier, Esposito, Yzerman... those are better comparisons.

Jagr's not at the Richard, Hull, Harvey, Beliveau level.
Frankly, I'm not sure what it is about Richard's or Beliveau's resumes that separate them so much from Jagr.

Maybe someone can explain. I don't see it.

Please don't say Stanley Cup victories.

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02-23-2013, 02:12 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue bleeder 24-7 View Post
I totally disagree with this thought. We're not talking about most legendary players, just flat out best. And Chelios, Selanne, Lidstrom and Jagr all exhibited certain attributes that make them just as likely to be 5th "best" as Bobby Hull or a few other older players.

Just because a player is ancient does not automatically make him better.

I think my vote would be for a goalie. Patrick Roy was the guy who came to mind for me.
I agree with this in spirit but Selanne shoudn't be in this conversation. He was a great player and has the longevity but he was never the best in the game. Not even close.

It's debatable whether he is even top 50.

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:14 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantomas View Post
Frankly, I'm not sure what it is about Richard's or Beliveau's resumes that separate them so much from Jagr.

Maybe someone can explain. I don't see it.

Please don't say Stanley Cup victories.
They're older.

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02-23-2013, 02:15 PM
  #118
um
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bobby hull

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:19 PM
  #119
MastuhNinks
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Bobby Hull


Maurice Richard's place in history is really overrated, how can you say someone is the 5th best player of all time when he was primarily an offensive player and never lead the league in scoring? One hart trophy, 5 goal-scoring titles, 0 Art Ross trophies. He's a top 5 goal-scorer, but not even a top 10 player IMO.

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:21 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue bleeder 24-7 View Post
I totally disagree with this thought. We're not talking about most legendary players, just flat out best. And Chelios, Selanne, Lidstrom and Jagr all exhibited certain attributes that make them just as likely to be 5th "best" as Bobby Hull or a few other older players.

Just because a player is ancient does not automatically make him better.

I think my vote would be for a goalie. Patrick Roy was the guy who came to mind for me.
Game's watered down today. Let me tell you about this one guy who played in the 30's and nobody here was alive to see. He was something else. Would tear today's league apart... Koval-who? Haven't heard of him.

'Course men were tougher back then. None of these pansies today would survive. Remember [good old Canadian boy]? I remember he used to do [thing that doesn't work in today's game] and then skate coast to coast before blowing a slapper past [wildly flailing goalie]. Haven't seen that kind of goal scoring talent in awhile. He used to smoke a pack a day, yet these bums today can hardly hit 100 points. It's a damn shame. We don't have elite talent like we used to.

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:22 PM
  #121
EvilElf63
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The Rocket or Messier.

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:28 PM
  #122
fly4apuckguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue bleeder 24-7 View Post
I totally disagree with this thought. We're not talking about most legendary players, just flat out best. And Chelios, Selanne, Lidstrom and Jagr all exhibited certain attributes that make them just as likely to be 5th "best" as Bobby Hull or a few other older players.

Just because a player is ancient does not automatically make him better.

I think my vote would be for a goalie. Patrick Roy was the guy who came to mind for me.
Let's see then...the younger players are better than the "ancient ones", so...

Chris Chelios over Rocket Richard.
Teemu Selanne over Jean Beliveau.
Jaromir Jagr over Bobby Hull.
Nick Lidstrom over Doug Harvey.

Not a chance.

With this thinking, I guess A-Rod is better than Babe Ruth and Lou Gerhig, too.


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Old
02-23-2013, 02:29 PM
  #123
tesplen
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Maurice 'Rocket' Richard



Messier isn't even top-10 or maybe even top-15 for me. Guys like Hull, Beliveau, Yzerman, Sakic, Lafleur, Jagr, Hasek, Bossy etc. all rank above him in my opinion. I just can't look past all of Messier's mediocre years that he had in his career in comparison to those guys. Cumulative point totals, winning with the most stacked team in history and New York sports lore aren't everything when deciding individual greatness.


*ducks from Oilers/Rangers fans*


Last edited by tesplen: 02-23-2013 at 02:36 PM.
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Old
02-23-2013, 02:30 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Let's see then...the younger players are better than the "ancient ones", so...

Chris Chelios over Rocket Richard.
Teemu Selanne over Jean Beliveau.
Jaromir Jagr over Bobby Hull.
Nick Lidstrom over Doug Harvey.

Not a chance.

With this thinking, I guess A-Rod is better than Babe Ruth and Lou Gerhig, too.

The lack of Joe Malone and Cy Denneny shows how young you are.

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:31 PM
  #125
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Denis Potvin

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