HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Ryan O'Reilly Headed to Offer Sheet or Trade (Part 4)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-23-2013, 04:03 PM
  #176
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,050
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
trade him to buffalo for grigorenko and girgensons. sabres build around o'reilly and hodgson as their centers, hire carl lindros as permanent coach in the off-season, rename the franchise the buffalo dads.
If Colorado could have gotten Grigorenko and Girgensons for him, he'd be wearing a Sabres jersey already.

Krishna is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:07 PM
  #177
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,299
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Enstrom would be the most likely to move of those 3, but any one of those 3 + Little?

doubt chevy does that, especially with the team he is trying to build, (Defence 1st)

To get Trouba or Bogo, you will have to overpay, just how it is, the two players on the jets that would be close to non-starters

Buff?
We need a clear defensive upgrade, thus one of those three. Don't think we'd go for Buff with his contract and position (right side). The reason I suspect Little is involved is because the Avs have been targeting him for awhile.

Little himself does not get O'Reilly, acquiring minor picks/prospects doesn't justify moving O'Reilly, therefore I concluded we'd also have to be getting one of your defensive studs. What the value is to bridge the deal I am not familiar enough with Winnipeg to speculate on, but that is what makes sense to me judging by Sherman's past moves and the fact we've been told Winnipeg is heavily interested in Ryan AND has been told what his contract requirements are if dealt.

Lonewolfe2015 is online now  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:07 PM
  #178
RockLobster
Moderator
Beatles Guru
 
RockLobster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas
Country: Germany
Posts: 12,000
vCash: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
The Avs dont want to pay him like a 1st liner,but they want other teams to pay for him like he was.They need to make up their minds! Either he is and pay him like it,or he isnt and stop asking for the moon.The Avs(and their fans)need to get realistic and lower their expectations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
One of those three AND Little? Give your head a shake, you'd be lucky to get one of Trouba or Enstrom for him (you won't get Bogosian even if you add).
I don't think we'd be "lucky" to just get Trouba for O'Reilly. Trouba is a VERY good prospect, but he's just that, a prospect. O'Reilly has 3 season of NHL hockey under his belt, he has improved areas of his game each season, so right now we don't know what his ceiling is.

Prospects are nice and great, but sometimes they don't pan out, I'm very confident that nearly all GM's will take Young, Proven NHLers over Prospects (keep in mind that O'Reilly is only 21/22 years old)

__________________


Thought I'd been in love before, but in my heart I wanted more. Seems like all I really was doing was waiting for you - John Lennon/The Beatles
RockLobster is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:13 PM
  #179
Gigantor The Goalie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New London
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,083
vCash: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowzie View Post
Kulemin isn't a scoring winger. He looked like that during his 30 goal year but really hes more like a good defensive player who can occasionally score.

This year he, along with Grabovski, are being used as our shut down line. They are consistently out there against the other teams top lines.
In that case we really don't want him then. Unless we can have him for a late pick or something. He should not be the centerpiece of any deal.

Gigantor The Goalie is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:13 PM
  #180
KingBogo
Admitted Homer
 
KingBogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 4,750
vCash: 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
We need a clear defensive upgrade, thus one of those three. Don't think we'd go for Buff with his contract and position (right side). The reason I suspect Little is involved is because the Avs have been targeting him for awhile.

Little himself does not get O'Reilly, acquiring minor picks/prospects doesn't justify moving O'Reilly, therefore I concluded we'd also have to be getting one of your defensive studs. What the value is to bridge the deal I am not familiar enough with Winnipeg to speculate on, but that is what makes sense to me judging by Sherman's past moves and the fact we've been told Winnipeg is heavily interested in Ryan AND has been told what his contract requirements are if dealt.
Little doesn't quite = ROR so you need a defensive stud instead. I just don't get that. Winnipeg may be interested but I can guarantee that Bogo or Trouba aren't part of the discussion.

KingBogo is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:17 PM
  #181
Tom ServoMST3K
I am Catbug
 
Tom ServoMST3K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Peg City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,911
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
We need a clear defensive upgrade, thus one of those three. Don't think we'd go for Buff with his contract and position (right side). The reason I suspect Little is involved is because the Avs have been targeting him for awhile.

Little himself does not get O'Reilly, acquiring minor picks/prospects doesn't justify moving O'Reilly, therefore I concluded we'd also have to be getting one of your defensive studs. What the value is to bridge the deal I am not familiar enough with Winnipeg to speculate on, but that is what makes sense to me judging by Sherman's past moves and the fact we've been told Winnipeg is heavily interested in Ryan AND has been told what his contract requirements are if dealt.
Obviously

Our GM really values our young stud Defenceman, and Trouba and Bogo are on the Right side anyway

Unfortunately the injury to Redmond has really stressed our D core so there may not be a defense man to go to Colorado at this time

Little++ has got potential, but the ++ needs to be right for Colorado, and I dont see the assets that Colorado wants.

Tom ServoMST3K is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:21 PM
  #182
Tom ServoMST3K
I am Catbug
 
Tom ServoMST3K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Peg City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,911
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
I don't think we'd be "lucky" to just get Trouba for O'Reilly. Trouba is a VERY good prospect, but he's just that, a prospect. O'Reilly has 3 season of NHL hockey under his belt, he has improved areas of his game each season, so right now we don't know what his ceiling is.

Prospects are nice and great, but sometimes they don't pan out, I'm very confident that nearly all GM's will take Young, Proven NHLers over Prospects (keep in mind that O'Reilly is only 21/22 years old)
Prospects that young are going to be valued the most by the team that drafted them, so trading Trouba at this point does not make any sense for either team.

Colorado would have to add if you want Bogo

Tom ServoMST3K is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:23 PM
  #183
RockLobster
Moderator
Beatles Guru
 
RockLobster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas
Country: Germany
Posts: 12,000
vCash: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Prospects that young are going to be valued the most by the team that drafted them, so trading Trouba at this point does not make any sense for either team.

Colorado would have to add if you want Bogo
I understand that trading Trouba is not something that the Jets would want to do, nor am I advocating that the Jets should trade him.

I just quoted the post that had the Prospect in it to make my statement attempt to be more generalized.

RockLobster is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:24 PM
  #184
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,299
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Obviously

Our GM really values our young stud Defenceman, and Trouba and Bogo are on the Right side anyway

Unfortunately the injury to Redmond has really stressed our D core so there may not be a defense man to go to Colorado at this time

Little++ has got potential, but the ++ needs to be right for Colorado, and I dont see the assets that Colorado wants.
Well, that's fair to conclude. I'm just trying to make Colorado's case here that unless you're going to throw in an asset at a discounted price like Burmistrov, we'd only really have a need for Trouba or Enstrom (throwing out Bogo).

It doesn't make sense for us to make a lateral move, losing O'Reilly for someone less valuable in a 1 for 1 type trade with a balancing asset thrown in (unless it we're a first I guess). It doesn't sound to make sense for you guys to move a valuable defender for a valuable center and swapping Little with someone on our team to balance the deal.

So is there anything less that is immediately obvious?

Lonewolfe2015 is online now  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:33 PM
  #185
Tom ServoMST3K
I am Catbug
 
Tom ServoMST3K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Peg City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,911
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Well, that's fair to conclude. I'm just trying to make Colorado's case here that unless you're going to throw in an asset at a discounted price like Burmistrov, we'd only really have a need for Trouba or Enstrom (throwing out Bogo).

It doesn't make sense for us to make a lateral move, losing O'Reilly for someone less valuable in a 1 for 1 type trade with a balancing asset thrown in (unless it we're a first I guess). It doesn't sound to make sense for you guys to move a valuable defender for a valuable center and swapping Little with someone on our team to balance the deal.

So is there anything less that is immediately obvious?
We are to thin on D to offer anything right now... The Farm is effed up because of injuries

It would have to be a forward.

Little + ______ for ROR seems to be the format, fill in the blank,

that is the problem, whatever you want, plus little would be too much for just ROR

There has to be a way I think, its close

Tom ServoMST3K is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:36 PM
  #186
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,325
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Well, that's fair to conclude. I'm just trying to make Colorado's case here that unless you're going to throw in an asset at a discounted price like Burmistrov, we'd only really have a need for Trouba or Enstrom (throwing out Bogo).

It doesn't make sense for us to make a lateral move, losing O'Reilly for someone less valuable in a 1 for 1 type trade with a balancing asset thrown in (unless it we're a first I guess). It doesn't sound to make sense for you guys to move a valuable defender for a valuable center and swapping Little with someone on our team to balance the deal.

So is there anything less that is immediately obvious?
I think this is the rub. And nothing wrong with it, it's just that Avs fans here and Jets fans here are wanting 2 different things.

Avs fans are looking to expand a deal including ROR and Little by adding premium pieces from the Jets that Jets fans don't want to lose (ROR + for Little + Trouba).

Jets fans would want to keep the deal around what the + would be in addition to Little, because in that case that + is nowhere near Trouba, Scheifele, 1st round picks, etc.

I can see the Avs fans reasoning here, but as a Jets fan I don't want to see any hypothetical deal expanded to include those premuim pieces. And Bogo and Enstrom and pretty much non starters. Bogo shouldn't be going anywhere, and Enstrom is our best (by far) LD.

Huffer is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:40 PM
  #187
Tom ServoMST3K
I am Catbug
 
Tom ServoMST3K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Peg City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,911
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I think this is the rub. And nothing wrong with it, it's just that Avs fans here and Jets fans here are wanting 2 different things.

Avs fans are looking to expand a deal including ROR and Little by adding premium pieces from the Jets that Jets fans don't want to lose (ROR + for Little + Trouba).

Jets fans would want to keep the deal around what the + would be in addition to Little, because in that case that + is nowhere near Trouba, Scheifele, 1st round picks, etc.

I can see the Avs fans reasoning here, but as a Jets fan I don't want to see any hypothetical deal expanded to include those premuim pieces. And Bogo and Enstrom and pretty much non starters. Bogo shouldn't be going anywhere, and Enstrom is our best (by far) LD.
Right now the jets are not trading a D-Man, never mind a good D-man.

Too many UFA's in the next couple years that could go to the Avs if they were locked up longer

Tom ServoMST3K is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:44 PM
  #188
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,325
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Right now the jets are not trading a D-Man, never mind a good D-man.

Too many UFA's in the next couple years that could go to the Avs if they were locked up longer
Did I say otherwise?

Huffer is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:46 PM
  #189
Tom ServoMST3K
I am Catbug
 
Tom ServoMST3K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Peg City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,911
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Did I say otherwise?
no just expanding

like if antropov was locked up for a reasonable price and not a rental, he could be a good piece to add

Tom ServoMST3K is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 04:58 PM
  #190
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,299
vCash: 239
That's the thing, you don't want to include a 'premium' asset, but O'Reilly is a premium asset himself. Unless we're getting an absolute value deal in Little + Burmistrov since you won't move a defender, I have no idea how you could bridge the gap from Little to get ROR. He's just not valuable enough on his own and the maximum it sounds you'll go is a 2nd rounder type value, which doesn't justify a trade in our perspective.

It'd be like the Avs offering McGinn + 2nd for Kane if Kane were holding out. You may think McGinn is a good piece of a deal, but a 2nd just doesn't grab your attention when dealing one of your key players.

Lonewolfe2015 is online now  
Old
02-23-2013, 05:00 PM
  #191
Gigantor The Goalie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New London
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,083
vCash: 366
This thread never fails to disappoint.

Fans of other team: We're interested in O'Reilly
Avs fans: What about this young good defender and a prospect?
Fans of other team: Nope those players aren't going anywhere, defenders is our best player and prospect is either going to be Orr or Gretzky so we want to hold onto him
Avs fans: What about that other young defender and other prospect?
Fans of other team: Don't want to do that either, that's our second best defender and that prospect is either Lemieux or Bourque so no deal
Avs fans: So what can you give up?
Fans of other team: How about this 3rd liner and prospect that should turn out to be the next great 3rd line/pairing guy
Avs fan: No way we're doing that
Fans of other team: Something something something unsigned RFA, something something something 55 points, something something something 2nd line center

Seems to be the way these conversations are going. Avs fans want a decent young defender and prospect but no one wants to give up their players because they like the idea of getting O'Reilly for free.

Gigantor The Goalie is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 05:04 PM
  #192
Tom ServoMST3K
I am Catbug
 
Tom ServoMST3K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Peg City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,911
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigantor The Goalie View Post
This thread never fails to disappoint.

Fans of other team: We're interested in O'Reilly
Avs fans: What about this young good defender and a prospect?
Fans of other team: Nope those players aren't going anywhere, defenders is our best player and prospect is either going to be Orr or Gretzky so we want to hold onto him
Avs fans: What about that other young defender and other prospect?
Fans of other team: Don't want to do that either, that's our second best defender and that prospect is either Lemieux or Bourque so no deal
Avs fans: So what can you give up?
Fans of other team: How about this 3rd liner and prospect that should turn out to be the next great 3rd line/pairing guy
Avs fan: No way we're doing that
Fans of other team: Something something something unsigned RFA, something something something 55 points, something something something 2nd line center

Seems to be the way these conversations are going. Avs fans want a decent young defender and prospect but no one wants to give up their players because they like the idea of getting O'Reilly for free.
Little plus an 3-4 defender would be fair I think,

Little I believe is a 1st line RW, or a 2nd line centre,

The problem is the jets just don't have the defensive deph to make a deal

oh well so close, yet so far

Tom ServoMST3K is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 05:04 PM
  #193
Sideline
Registered User
 
Sideline's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigantor The Goalie View Post
This thread never fails to disappoint.

Fans of other team: We're interested in O'Reilly
Avs fans: What about this young good defender and a prospect?
Fans of other team: Nope those players aren't going anywhere, defenders is our best player and prospect is either going to be Orr or Gretzky so we want to hold onto him
Avs fans: What about that other young defender and other prospect?
Fans of other team: Don't want to do that either, that's our second best defender and that prospect is either Lemieux or Bourque so no deal
Avs fans: So what can you give up?
Fans of other team: How about this 3rd liner and prospect that should turn out to be the next great 3rd line/pairing guy
Avs fan: No way we're doing that
Fans of other team: Something something something unsigned RFA, something something something 55 points, something something something 2nd line center

Seems to be the way these conversations are going. Avs fans want a decent young defender and prospect but no one wants to give up their players because they like the idea of getting O'Reilly for free.
Would something around Despres or Niskanen be of interest to the Avalanche?

Sideline is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 05:07 PM
  #194
Der Jaeger
Registered User
 
Der Jaeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 1,996
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
and look how wrong that turned out
The hindsight is sort of irrelevant. The trade was a 1C, a young roster player, and a pick. Grigorenko, Brennan, and a pick is along those lines.

Der Jaeger is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 05:07 PM
  #195
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,299
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Little plus an 3-4 defender would be fair I think,

Little I believe is a 1st line RW, or a 2nd line centre,

The problem is the jets just don't have the defensive deph to make a deal

oh well so close, yet so far
Little is a 2nd line player no matter how you shake it, he just hasn't delivered since his huge season. While in a vacuum I wouldn't argue a 2nd pairing defender is fair value, it doesn't make any sense to move Ryan for a couple good assets and no great assets. We don't need a lot of depth, we need a really good player that will push our depth guys into playing roles they actually should be.

Lonewolfe2015 is online now  
Old
02-23-2013, 05:13 PM
  #196
Tom ServoMST3K
I am Catbug
 
Tom ServoMST3K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Peg City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,911
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Little is a 2nd line player no matter how you shake it, he just hasn't delivered since his huge season. While in a vacuum I wouldn't argue a 2nd pairing defender is fair value, it doesn't make any sense to move Ryan for a couple good assets and no great assets. We don't need a lot of depth, we need a really good player that will push our depth guys into playing roles they actually should be.
Fair point, but who will give up a young impact player for ROR right now? maybe a team with a veteran impact player looking for a younger one?

It seems to make the most sense to re-sign, but that appears like it is not going to happen.

Tom ServoMST3K is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 05:15 PM
  #197
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,325
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
That's the thing, you don't want to include a 'premium' asset, but O'Reilly is a premium asset himself. Unless we're getting an absolute value deal in Little + Burmistrov since you won't move a defender, I have no idea how you could bridge the gap from Little to get ROR. He's just not valuable enough on his own and the maximum it sounds you'll go is a 2nd rounder type value, which doesn't justify a trade in our perspective.

It'd be like the Avs offering McGinn + 2nd for Kane if Kane were holding out. You may think McGinn is a good piece of a deal, but a 2nd just doesn't grab your attention when dealing one of your key players.
Understandable, and I agree. If the Jets were dealing a young good player I don't want a lesser piece and a 2nd coming back either. But that doesn't mean I want to overpay either (which it would be in my mind if the Jets are adding a guy like Trouba), because Little is not that far off from ROR IMO to justify it.

I do like the analogy, but it's not exactly the same as McGinn is no where near as good as Little.

Huffer is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 05:17 PM
  #198
AslanRH
Part of the Plan
 
AslanRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wyoming, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,441
vCash: 50
Wheeler or Little seem to make the only sense if the young Dmen are not available. Unless Avs have decided their best bet is getting a package with less of a player along with getting a more valuable pick in return. ???? Just don't know what the Avs want/expect and nothing jumps out to me with the Jets.

AslanRH is offline  
Old
02-23-2013, 05:20 PM
  #199
S E P H
@Krzysztof_WHL
 
S E P H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Avs Country!
Country: Poland
Posts: 4,454
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Little plus an 3-4 defender would be fair I think,

Little I believe is a 1st line RW, or a 2nd line centre,

The problem is the jets just don't have the defensive deph to make a deal

oh well so close, yet so far
How is that a fair deal when Sens fans and Avs fans have been talking about a deal around,

Zibanejad/Slifverberg + Weircoich + 3rd for ROR + O'Brien

I am basing this off Of Little as a 2nd line player, which he is. Trouba is the main piece myself and other Avs fans will ask for.

S E P H is online now  
Old
02-23-2013, 05:23 PM
  #200
Tom ServoMST3K
I am Catbug
 
Tom ServoMST3K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Peg City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,911
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
How is that a fair deal when Sens fans and Avs fans have been talking about a deal around,

Zibanejad/Slifverberg + Weircoich + 3rd for ROR + O'Brien

I am basing this off Of Little as a 2nd line player, which he is. Trouba is the main piece myself and other Avs fans will ask for.
Right now with the way Chevy will value Trouba, You will need to add to ROR,

It probably wont make sense to the Avs, but that is where the jets are right now.

Not saying anything about ROR's value, but trading Trouba makes no sense

Tom ServoMST3K is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.