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Old
02-23-2013, 12:48 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Flamesarmstrong22 View Post
Nick leddy, Corey Crawford for kiprusoff
I'm trying to figure out the logic behind this... Chicago is giving up the younger goalie who costs less and is playing better... And they're the ones adding?

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02-23-2013, 12:55 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by domaug View Post


2013 1st round pick
D Olli Maatta



F Jarome Iginla

also what would the Flames realistically want for Sarich?
We all know this is fair, so let's just get it done now. I want to see Iggy rip it up with Crosby

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02-23-2013, 01:07 PM
  #78
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That's what it's going to cost. At least that's what history tells us.

One thing I think people should keep in mind. The whole "Deep Draft" thing is overrated for the most part. We hear that every couple of years and sometimes it ends up true, other times it's all hype. It really has never effected the way teams throw around 1st round picks at the deadline.
History tells us that is what it would cost for an Iginla in his 20's not at 35 and at the end of his career. 3 years ago Iginla would get offers like some people here are asking for, but this Jarome Iginla is not a 40 goal scorer.

History tells us that a late first and a prospect with some potential but a lot of questions about him, and possibly a conditional pick is about what Iginla would get unless he has a goal explosion soon. Nobody is going to pay what some people here are claiming Iginla will get when he is a 1 goal scorer.

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02-23-2013, 01:10 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
History tells us that is what it would cost for an Iginla in his 20's not at 35 and at the end of his career. 3 years ago Iginla would get offers like some people here are asking for, but this Jarome Iginla is not a 40 goal scorer.

History tells us that a late first and a prospect with some potential but a lot of questions about him, and possibly a conditional pick is about what Iginla would get unless he has a goal explosion soon. Nobody is going to pay what some people here are claiming Iginla will get when he is a 1 goal scorer.
Look at the history. Players like Iginla moved late in their careers, land a first and a legitimate prospect. You can bring up the one goal all you want. Teams are going to line up to add Jerome Iginla for the playoffs.

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02-23-2013, 01:21 PM
  #80
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Jaybo to Detroit for Helm plus Kindl plus Ferraro plus a 2nd rd pick

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02-23-2013, 01:33 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
Jaybo to Detroit for Helm plus Kindl plus Ferraro plus a 2nd rd pick
No...JBow for 1st, Sproul + Frk

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02-23-2013, 01:48 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
TO BOS: Iginla
TO CGY: Marchand, Caron or Knight, 1st

Helps both teams. Flames get a decent player who can play on the top 2 lines, is cheap and young. Also a very good prospect and a 1st.
This does not help the Bruins. We are looking to add to the team but not by trading someone in the top 6 for UFA. I swear we could offer Seguin, Hamilton, Bergeron, Chara, Rask and our next 50 fist round picks and Flames fans would say its not enough. You have to realize he is not going to get what he would have 5 years ago.

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02-23-2013, 01:50 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Look at the history. Players like Iginla moved late in their careers, land a first and a legitimate prospect. You can bring up the one goal all you want. Teams are going to line up to add Jerome Iginla for the playoffs.
Teams are not going to deal for what Iginla used to be, they will deal for what he is now. The comparables to Iginla are Kaberle and who else? There is no way you can compare him to Kovalchuk or Hossa, both of them were in their primes and better players than Iginla at the time. Maybe Mark Recchi is a good comparable.

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02-23-2013, 01:51 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
No...JBow for 1st, Sproul + Frk
yahhhh, well allright then..

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02-23-2013, 01:55 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
Teams are not going to deal for what Iginla used to be, they will deal for what he is now. The comparables to Iginla are Kaberle and who else? There is no way you can compare him to Kovalchuk or Hossa, both of them were in their primes and better players than Iginla at the time. Maybe Mark Recchi is a good comparable.
you see man people are just stupid.

trades are so very predictable for a reason

sure fans will say "then we wont trade him" or "yah but he is a ufa" or "yah but he is a cancer" or "yah but he asked to be traded"

none of that matters, regardless of situation or why a guy is being traded the return is almost always equal to those that came before it

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02-23-2013, 02:09 PM
  #86
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Boston makes a huge offer at the deadline to try to win a cup...

take both Iginla and Bouwmeister
give up
Boychuck, Spooner, Knight, 1 first round pick, 1 conditional pick {first if Iginla resigns or Boston wins cup}

Calgary may or may not plan on resigning Iginla themselves... its a possibility I realize.

Boston would need Calgary to eat half of Bouwmeister's contact cause there is cap problems next year.

Calgary ends up with a good affordable top 4 building block type dman to help them change their team culture... a couple kids that probably will help the second/third lines a bit... a pick or two... and maybe Iginla anyhow... all for lending Iginla to another team for a playoff run and moving Bouwmeister who needs to be moved anyhow... and maybe Iginla needs to be let go next year anyhow...

i mean if Iginla makes it to UFA... should Calgary even resign him? they probably will, but should they?

for Boston I like this move cause i think it helps Seguin/Hamilton alot... and really increases depth for a cup run this year

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:27 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
Teams are not going to deal for what Iginla used to be, they will deal for what he is now. The comparables to Iginla are Kaberle and who else? There is no way you can compare him to Kovalchuk or Hossa, both of them were in their primes and better players than Iginla at the time. Maybe Mark Recchi is a good comparable.
Bourque... Fleury... Shanahan... Francais... and many many other aging stars were dealt to contenders from teams that were young/rebuilding over the years...

the return is very consistient. there hasnt been alot of vets allowed to enter the last year of their contract recently... so there hasnt been alot of these types of trades.

when there is... the return is still the same. Look what Karberle was worth... Karberle isnt fit to hold Iginla's jock strap on the best day of Karberle's career.

im definitely not much of a flames fan... but they are not being forced to deal iginla with a gun to their head. they will either get a 'normal' return for him or they simply wont bother to move him at all.

i am a bruin fan... as a bruin fan id be prepared to give up a first, a good prospect, and more for him... a lesser offer simply wont even come close to getting the job done.

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02-23-2013, 02:32 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
Teams are not going to deal for what Iginla used to be, they will deal for what he is now. The comparables to Iginla are Kaberle and who else? There is no way you can compare him to Kovalchuk or Hossa, both of them were in their primes and better players than Iginla at the time. Maybe Mark Recchi is a good comparable.
Mark Recchi when boston picked him up was 40 years old and coming off 2 seasons where he scored 27 goals total. Iginla is 35 and coming off 2 seasons where he scored 75 goals. On what planet do you live on where these 2 guys are similar comparisons?

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02-23-2013, 03:07 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
No...JBow for 1st, Sproul + Frk
Translation:

A guy we'll probably buyout if we can't trade him, for your (likely top 20) first rounder, a high potential defender, and a decent forward prospect.

No.

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02-23-2013, 03:16 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Translation:

A guy we'll probably buyout if we can't trade him, for your (likely top 20) first rounder, a high potential defender, and a decent forward prospect.

No.
Sounds like a fair return! Sproul looks good but he still has a lot of developing to do and is far from a sure thing. Let's not forget that potential buy out you mentioned would likely be your best defenseman this year! 15-20 1st and 2 former 2nds, that are developing nicely, is how I see it

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02-23-2013, 03:34 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
Mark Recchi when boston picked him up was 40 years old and coming off 2 seasons where he scored 27 goals total. Iginla is 35 and coming off 2 seasons where he scored 75 goals. On what planet do you live on where these 2 guys are similar comparisons?
Iginla is not scoring goals this year, I think GM's are going to notice that don't you?

As far as you examples of players who were traded late in their careers, Shanahan was 28 the last time he was traded and in the prime of his career for almost exactly what some people are saying a 35 year old Iginla who appears to have lost something will get. Shanahan was 7 years younger and in the prime of his career.

Fleury was 31, I don't know who Francais is, maybe a typo, Francis? 4th round pick.

Bourque was playing at a high level.

I am not arguing Iginla is not worth anything, in fact I think he is worth a 1st and a middle of the pack prospect and possibly a conditional pick if re-signed or the team went to then finals.

I do not think he is a 40 goal scorer, I would not trade most of what people say is needed to acquire him, I do not think he is worth that much.

Almost all of the players people are giving as examples of comparable players were 5-7 years younger and in their prime and Iginla would have been worth a deal like people are suggesting if it was a couple of years ago.

I am pretty sure Chiarelli won't give up a first, their best forward and defense prospect in a deal for a rental. That is not realistic yet that is what is being proposed.
It won't happen, he won't purge the Bruins prospects for a rental.

a 1st, Suave, and a conditional 2nd is a pretty good deal for a rental, if they could get more then more power to them. If they are going to be giving up prospects like Spooner it will be for a player who will be on the team longer than this season in my opinion.

I could be wrong, but I hope not, I just don't see this years Iginla as being worth what was paid for Hossa or Kovalchuk, I would rather try for Ryder, Jagr, Briere, Alfredsson, etc at a cheaper cost. I believe most GM's would think the same way.

I know Iginla is a player that a lot of us would have loved to have seen play for the Bruins, but the asking price is too high if the some of the Flames fans on this board are correct. I also don't believe anyone is going to pay the same price Hossa or Kovalchuk got unless Iginla does something to make them think he is going to score at a 30-40 goal per season rate while he is on their team.

The player the Bruins were hoping they were getting in Kaberle isn't what they got and I think Iginla is at the same point in his career where he has a diminishing return because his play is slipping. He has been called out in the media and people are noticing that he isn't who he used to be. His value will drop accordingly. Mark Recchi's value dropped Recchi at the around same age was traded for 2 prospects and a 2nd. I think Iginla is worth more than that, but it is just an example of how a players value drops when they are a 35 year old player with dropping stats like Iginla has this year.

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02-23-2013, 03:35 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
Mark Recchi when boston picked him up was 40 years old and coming off 2 seasons where he scored 27 goals total. Iginla is 35 and coming off 2 seasons where he scored 75 goals. On what planet do you live on where these 2 guys are similar comparisons?
Mark Recchi, 8 years earlier was picked up by Carolina for 2 mediocre prospects and a 2nd round pick at the same age. Actually 8 years before he retired not when Boston acquired him.

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02-23-2013, 04:02 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
Jaybo to Detroit for Helm plus Kindl plus Ferraro plus a 2nd rd pick
Hell I'd take that, assuming Ferraro is still doing as well as last word had him in the AHL. Maybe make it a conditional pick based on if he re-signs?

Plus I have a HUGE HUGE HUGE crush on Helm

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02-23-2013, 04:05 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
TO BOS: Iginla
TO CGY: Marchand, Caron or Knight, 1st

Helps both teams. Flames get a decent player who can play on the top 2 lines, is cheap and young. Also a very good prospect and a 1st.
Boston laughs and hangs up.

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02-23-2013, 04:20 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
Jaybo to Detroit for Helm plus Kindl plus Ferraro plus a 2nd rd pick
Done.

CAL: Iginla
PIT: Maata and a 1st.

CAL: Cammalleri
NSH: Blum+2nd

As for the rest...

Giordano could get us a 1st or 2nd+decent prospect.
Kiprusoff could get us a 1st, probably. Assuming he comes back, and he gets back to a decent form. If he really rebounds, 1st+
Stajan, the way he's been playing, could likely get a 2nd.
Stempniak could get a 3rd or 4th.
Sarich for a 5th
Babchuk for a 5th
Comeau for a 7th.

As for Tanguay and Glencross, I'd hang onto them. They're both on excellent contracts, and we still need to ice a team next season.

Hudler - Tanguay - Glencross
UFA - Backlund - Baertschi
Cervenka - Horak - UFA
Nemisz - UFA - Aliu

Wideman - Brodie
Butler - UFA
Maata - Smith/Carson

Ramo/Irving/Taylor

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02-23-2013, 04:32 PM
  #96
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One think I think people are missing here, is that when you are talking about deadline deals, you have to consider more than simply what a player's "blue book" value is. There are a few other things to consider;

a) How close a team feels they are to contending
b) Which other teans are trying to fill that same need
c) Has ownership given the gm a "do what you need to do to win" directive?
d) The level of emotions in the negotiations (ie a GM's job may be on the line if they don't make the final, etc)

For instance, lets say Iginla is in play. Just this year both Pittsburgh and Boston have been rumored to be interested. For the sake of keeping it simple, I will keep it to these two teams. Im sure there would be more than 2 interested should Iggy be available. If Feaster were smart, here's how he should play it:

Feaster: Hey Chiarelli (Bos), we're thinking of moving Iginla. What'll you give us for him? BTW, I'm also talking to Shero (Pitts).
Chiarelli: Well our roster is set for a good run at the cup, so we dont want to give up any of our top guys. Will you take a first in 2013?
Feaster: Let me get back to you - Shero? you there? Boston just offered us a first for Iginla, can you beat that?
Shero: Sure, we'll give you a "B" level prospect and our first this year.
Chiarelli: Ok, how about two "B" level prospects and our first this year?
Shero: Well, we dont want to give up three prospects for him, so how about an "A" level prospect and a first?

This is where the emotions can take over and I think a different dynamic takes hold. Right about here is where the gms realize that if they dont get Iggy, the other team will, so its not just about acquiring Iggy, but the real threat of the other team(s) getting him. The "ransom" will keep rising until one gm says uncle.

If Feaster plays his cards right, he could do this for Iggy (Pitts/Bos), Bouwmeester (Phi/Det/Stl), and possibly Kipper (StL/TB), for example. The return could get quite large. I guess we'll see.

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02-23-2013, 04:45 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Translation:

A guy we'll probably buyout if we can't trade him, for your (likely top 20) first rounder, a high potential defender, and a decent forward prospect.

No.
Have you seen Bouwmeester play? I'm not sure why you seem to think we're so desparate to get rid of him.

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02-23-2013, 05:01 PM
  #98
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Have you seen Bouwmeester play? I'm not sure why you seem to think we're so desparate to get rid of him.
This. Bouwmeester is playing great hockey right now. Buying him out would be stupid.

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02-23-2013, 05:04 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Rockmorton View Post
One think I think people are missing here, is that when you are talking about deadline deals, you have to consider more than simply what a player's "blue book" value is. There are a few other things to consider;

a) How close a team feels they are to contending
b) Which other teans are trying to fill that same need
c) Has ownership given the gm a "do what you need to do to win" directive?
d) The level of emotions in the negotiations (ie a GM's job may be on the line if they don't make the final, etc)

For instance, lets say Iginla is in play. Just this year both Pittsburgh and Boston have been rumored to be interested. For the sake of keeping it simple, I will keep it to these two teams. Im sure there would be more than 2 interested should Iggy be available. If Feaster were smart, here's how he should play it:

Feaster: Hey Chiarelli (Bos), we're thinking of moving Iginla. What'll you give us for him? BTW, I'm also talking to Shero (Pitts).
Chiarelli: Well our roster is set for a good run at the cup, so we dont want to give up any of our top guys. Will you take a first in 2013?
Feaster: Let me get back to you - Shero? you there? Boston just offered us a first for Iginla, can you beat that?
Shero: Sure, we'll give you a "B" level prospect and our first this year.
Chiarelli: Ok, how about two "B" level prospects and our first this year?
Shero: Well, we dont want to give up three prospects for him, so how about an "A" level prospect and a first?

This is where the emotions can take over and I think a different dynamic takes hold. Right about here is where the gms realize that if they dont get Iggy, the other team will, so its not just about acquiring Iggy, but the real threat of the other team(s) getting him. The "ransom" will keep rising until one gm says uncle.

If Feaster plays his cards right, he could do this for Iggy (Pitts/Bos), Bouwmeester (Phi/Det/Stl), and possibly Kipper (StL/TB), for example. The return could get quite large. I guess we'll see.
You also have to take into account who else may be on the market. What if Ribeiro, Jagr, Ryder, Roy, Morrow, Alfredsson, Semin, Filppula, Smyth, Gagner, Penner, and Weiss are also all available. I could see Pittsburgh or Boston saying that they will go after Alfredsson rather than pay such a high price for Iginla. Weiss, Alfredsson and Ryder all seem like guys that Boston would have a lot of interest in especially if the price isn't as high as Iginla, especially Alfredsson. Briere has also been rumored to be available and is another guy they would have to consider. There seem to be no shortage of options this year if the teams those players play for are out of the playoff picture. In some cases it doesn't matter either way, they will be available.

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02-23-2013, 05:20 PM
  #100
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Iggy to the Pens for:
1st, Maata + cond. 2014 2nd(cup or resigning)

JBow to the Wings for:
1st, Sproul + Frk

Gio to the Blues for:
Cole + Rattie

Cammy( at 3 million) + Stempniak to the Preds for:
Blum + Budish/Watson

Kipper to TO for:
Colborne + Holzer

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