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A little love for Joe Sacco??

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Old
02-23-2013, 04:32 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
The problem isn't Sacco, it's Sherman. We have holes (including coaching), yet Sherman sits back and waits until it's far too late & lost before changes are made. Sherman isn't innovative. He's not pro-active.

He's "re-active", and that's suicide for a club.
Agreed 100%, and the fact that they've had to rush Barrie and Elliott into the lineup proves he did a crap job this offseason filling blueline spots.

Nevertheless, Sacco is part of the problem. You're not gonna convince me he hasn't played a part in shaping this roster, and while Sherman was the guy who got Hunwick, he's not the guy playing Hunwick for 30+ minutes a night.

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02-23-2013, 04:35 PM
  #52
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Jeff Carter telling the Kings broadcast the Avs are "soft in their coverage."

This is about 95% a coaching issue, and something they have had issues with under pretty much all of Sacco's tenure.

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02-23-2013, 04:35 PM
  #53
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a young team needs a coach that can teach, and Sacco can't do that. he should have been gone after last year

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02-23-2013, 05:06 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
The problem isn't Sacco, it's Sherman. We have holes (including coaching), yet Sherman sits back and waits until it's far too late & lost before changes are made. Sherman isn't innovative. He's not pro-active.

He's "re-active", and that's suicide for a club.
no the problem is Lacroix having a lifetime contract. he hires his cronies and puts them in power instead hiring the best candidate because he wants them to be a part of the Avs culture beforehand.

Kroenke doesn't want to spend money, Lacroix doesn't want to go outside of the organization to find front office or coaching personnel, Sherman isn't going to piss off his boss and risk his job, Sacco is terrible and not going to improve.
the Avs are ****ed.

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02-23-2013, 05:17 PM
  #55
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That was nice of Carter.

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02-23-2013, 05:42 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by avsfan19 View Post
a young team needs a coach that can teach, and Sacco can't do that. he should have been gone after last year
You are flat out wrong. The one thing Sacco gets praised for is his tutelage of his young players.

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02-23-2013, 05:43 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
The problem isn't Sacco, it's Sherman. We have holes (including coaching), yet Sherman sits back and waits until it's far too late & lost before changes are made. Sherman isn't innovative. He's not pro-active.

He's "re-active", and that's suicide for a club.
Yep. And to be fair, Sherman is hand-cuffed by an owner who is happy to only spend the bare minimum every single year.

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02-23-2013, 05:51 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Heebs21 View Post
You are flat out wrong. The one thing Sacco gets praised for is his tutelage of his young players.
Who the hell has praised him for that? I've never heard that once. The players like him, that's the only praise I've heard that even resembles that.

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02-23-2013, 05:54 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
no the problem is Lacroix having a lifetime contract. he hires his cronies and puts them in power instead hiring the best candidate because he wants them to be a part of the Avs culture beforehand.

Kroenke doesn't want to spend money, Lacroix doesn't want to go outside of the organization to find front office or coaching personnel, Sherman isn't going to piss off his boss and risk his job, Sacco is terrible and not going to improve.
the Avs are ****ed.
You're right about everyone of those bums. I wish I liked another team so that I wouldn't be so depressed during hockey season because the once great avs are forever dead.

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02-23-2013, 05:56 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Heebs21 View Post
Yep. And to be fair, Sherman is hand-cuffed by an owner who is happy to only spend the bare minimum every single year.
You make a good point. The reason these guys are still around, even after Sacco and his buddy Sherman went 5-26-2 in a stretch, is because the owners simply don't care while they pocket your (and I say your, because it IS your/Denver fans money) 6 point something million profit each year by icing a sloppy, cheap product.

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02-23-2013, 06:44 PM
  #61
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Sacco is the worst coach this franchise has ever had

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02-23-2013, 07:23 PM
  #62
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Sacco is the worst coach this franchise has ever had
This is a low point for the avs franchise. Pierre is no longer in touch in what needs to be done, ownership no longer feels like spending money, the gm signs scrubs (I'm looking at almost the entire defense) to play on this team, and the coach is just not ready to coach at the nhl level. This team needs to rebuild on every level from ownership down, but it won't happen and avs fans will be *****ing every year.

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02-23-2013, 07:30 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
The problem isn't Sacco, it's Sherman. We have holes (including coaching), yet Sherman sits back and waits until it's far too late & lost before changes are made. Sherman isn't innovative. He's not pro-active.

He's "re-active", and that's suicide for a club.

You'll never know. Maybe the problem isn't Sherman either, maybe it's Kroenke not willing to spend big money on his team.

Remember that Kroenke got rid of pretty much all the best and highest paid players on his other sport teams.

Carmelo Anthony- Nuggets... gone

Van Persie-Arsenal...gone

Is it coincident, or Kroenke is all about spending less and trying to get more out of his teams? Maybe the guy is just a cheap ass rich businessman pinching every penny.

I'm surprised Stastny is still in Colorado, which i think would be smart to get rid of Stastny and his big contract because the guy just doesn't play like a 6.6 mill player. But i stay strong to my opinion and i really think Stastny is still in Denver because of his father Peter Stastny. The guy is living off his father's reputation otherwise Kroenke wouldn't hesitate to get rid of that 6.6 mill contract.


Last edited by the_fan: 02-23-2013 at 08:04 PM.
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Old
02-23-2013, 08:14 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by the_fan View Post
You'll never know. Maybe the problem isn't Sherman either, maybe it's Kroenke not willing to spend big money on his team.

Remember that Kroenke got rid of pretty much all the best and highest paid players on his other sport teams.

Carmelo Anthony- Nuggets... gone

Van Persie-Arsenal...gone

Is it coincident, or Kroenke is all about spending less and trying to get more out of his teams? Maybe the guy is just a cheap ass rich businessman pinching every penny.

I'm surprised Stastny is still in Colorado, which i think would be smart to get rid of Stastny and his big contract because the guy just doesn't play like a 6.6 mill player. But i stay strong to my opinion and i really think Stastny is still in Denver because of his father Peter Stastny. The guy is living off his father's reputation otherwise Kroenke wouldn't hesitate to get rid of that 6.6 mill contract.
Melo doesn't count. The whole world knew that he wanted to go to new york and was going to find some way to get traded.

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02-23-2013, 09:14 PM
  #65
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This is a low point for the avs franchise. Pierre is no longer in touch in what needs to be done, ownership no longer feels like spending money, the gm signs scrubs (I'm looking at almost the entire defense) to play on this team, and the coach is just not ready to coach at the nhl level. This team needs to rebuild on every level from ownership down, but it won't happen and avs fans will be *****ing every year.
Yeah I miss the days when I was sad because we were favorites and got bounced in the nth round. Now we're lucky just to make the playoffs and not get sweeped by a better team.

And then on top of that lose players with value, don't bother signing higher end free agents, and keep a terrible coach. My oh my... I don't blame any Av who wants to leave.

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Old
02-23-2013, 09:17 PM
  #66
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Melo doesn't count. The whole world knew that he wanted to go to new york and was going to find some way to get traded.
This is true. Kroenke was going to give him a max deal (more than any other team), but Melo didn't want it.

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02-24-2013, 12:56 AM
  #67
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When have the Avs ever went out and got an excellent coach? Crawford, Hartley, Q, Granato?

The Avs stick to their good old boys ways and that probably won't change. That's on the FO, not the coach. Sacco has a lot to learn as a coach. He can drive me crazy, but don't expect the Avs to go sign Ruff or anything.
Hartley and Q were really good coaches. But either way my point was less about the Avs going out and finding a great coach, and more so that we have good talent to work with if we ever get a coach who's ready to coach a playoff team.

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02-24-2013, 01:02 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
The problem isn't Sacco, it's Sherman. We have holes (including coaching), yet Sherman sits back and waits until it's far too late & lost before changes are made. Sherman isn't innovative. He's not pro-active.

He's "re-active", and that's suicide for a club.
Basically, Greg from accounting is too patient with a really young team? The hell else do you want a Gm on a rebuilding team to do other than assemble young cornerstones like Dutchy, EJ, Varly and Landy, and put together pieces that can work around those cornerstones, Downie, Ginner, PAP, Hejda-Barrie, Wilson, Giggy. Sure the defense sucks mighty dick, but other than trying to overwhelm Garrison with a massive overpayment in FA, what more could he have done?

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02-24-2013, 01:19 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by the_fan View Post
You'll never know. Maybe the problem isn't Sherman either, maybe it's Kroenke not willing to spend big money on his team.

Remember that Kroenke got rid of pretty much all the best and highest paid players on his other sport teams.

Carmelo Anthony- Nuggets... gone

Van Persie-Arsenal...gone

Is it coincident, or Kroenke is all about spending less and trying to get more out of his teams? Maybe the guy is just a cheap ass rich businessman pinching every penny.

I'm surprised Stastny is still in Colorado, which i think would be smart to get rid of Stastny and his big contract because the guy just doesn't play like a 6.6 mill player. But i stay strong to my opinion and i really think Stastny is still in Denver because of his father Peter Stastny. The guy is living off his father's reputation otherwise Kroenke wouldn't hesitate to get rid of that 6.6 mill contract.
wanted to leave so thats 2 wrongs

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02-24-2013, 02:16 AM
  #70
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Well, RVP wanted to leave cause he wanted to win some titles, and he couldn't do that with Arsenal because they were getting outspent by the big teams like United, Citeh, Chelsea and even Tottenham. So it's fair to say RVP left Arsenal because Arsenal wasn't willing to spend enough, now in soccer this is more forgiveable as there's no cap or floor, no max salaries or RFA, and a lot of big teams lose massive amounts of money each year to support their lavish spending, but still money problems were at the root of RVP wanting out.

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02-24-2013, 02:26 AM
  #71
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Basically, Greg from accounting is too patient with a really young team? The hell else do you want a Gm on a rebuilding team to do other than assemble young cornerstones like Dutchy, EJ, Varly and Landy, and put together pieces that can work around those cornerstones, Downie, Ginner, PAP, Hejda-Barrie, Wilson, Giggy. Sure the defense sucks mighty dick, but other than trying to overwhelm Garrison with a massive overpayment in FA, what more could he have done?
We are currently 29th in the entire NHL in scoring.
Last season we ended up 24th in scoring.
The season before that, we were 20th in scoring.

In my books, that reads regression. What the "hell" do I want from a team that suggested it was re-building 4.5 - 5.5 years ago?

I want to see us PROGRESSING !!!!!!

The team, and I'm talking ownership, management, coaches, salary cap, players both on offense and defense have in my books gotten worse for whatever reason. The only measure in my books where we have "built" anything, is in goal, and guess that why that is.

We went to the market and acquired what we needed.

Look, if your happy with the status quo (the way it is), and where our "re-build" (what a crock bare in mind) is, then all power to you.

This team needs a royal flush in my opinion. I'd take:

Landeskog, Stazz, Parenteau, Duchene, Johnson, Varlamov, Giguere, Mitchell, Mcleod, Olver, Downie & maybe Mcginn, and get rid of the rest from ownership down.

We need a complete culture overhaul here. A player or two isn't going to change this train wreck....and lets be fair, that is what it is.

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02-24-2013, 03:36 AM
  #72
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I guess we just have very different expectations for what a bunch kids are going to do on an injury ravage roster coached Tank Master Joe Sacco. We're perfectly fine, edmonton's been rebuilding for longer and they still aren't close to where we are. Now that Barrie and Elliott are finally arriving in the NHL our goal scoring will go back up, especially if we can avoid getting killed by injuries. This team needs the core to mature, a real coach, and to make a few more shrewd moves to fill in the remaining two corner stones and we'll be ready to start making deeper and deeper playoff runs.

What we need to do to get there is wait for the right deal for O'Reilly, even if that means waiting into the summer. To get a real coach who can put together a system to take this talent to the next level. And to upgrade on the wing, I'm thinking if we get that top pairing LHD for Ryan, we trade one of Barrie or Ellliott next deadline to get that winger. At that point we'd be making our playoff push with:

McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau
Landeskog - Stastny - Barriott trade
Jones - Sgarbossa - Downie
Highlander - Mitchell - Olver
Bordy - Malone

O'Reilly trade - EJ
Hejda - remaining member of Barriott
Wilson - SOB/Siemens

Varly
Giggy/Pickard

With a real coach that's a playoff team with tons of room to grow.


Last edited by cgf: 02-24-2013 at 03:42 AM.
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Old
02-24-2013, 11:28 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
no the problem is Lacroix having a lifetime contract. he hires his cronies and puts them in power instead hiring the best candidate because he wants them to be a part of the Avs culture beforehand.

Kroenke doesn't want to spend money, Lacroix doesn't want to go outside of the organization to find front office or coaching personnel, Sherman isn't going to piss off his boss and risk his job, Sacco is terrible and not going to improve.
the Avs are ****ed.
Avs organization in a nutshell, well stated.

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:35 AM
  #74
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Agreed 100%, and the fact that they've had to rush Barrie and Elliott into the lineup proves he did a crap job this offseason filling blueline spots.

Nevertheless, Sacco is part of the problem. You're not gonna convince me he hasn't played a part in shaping this roster, and while Sherman was the guy who got Hunwick, he's not the guy playing Hunwick for 30+ minutes a night.
The thing is there aren't many options for Sacco to go with outside on Hunwick. Does the OB-Hunny combo give me nightmares? Yes. But again, where is our depth on D? We have zip.

FO didn't do the team any favors in the offseason except get us someone who grows a fierce beard.

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02-24-2013, 11:41 AM
  #75
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Well, RVP wanted to leave cause he wanted to win some titles, and he couldn't do that with Arsenal because they were getting outspent by the big teams like United, Citeh, Chelsea and even Tottenham. So it's fair to say RVP left Arsenal because Arsenal wasn't willing to spend enough, now in soccer this is more forgiveable as there's no cap or floor, no max salaries or RFA, and a lot of big teams lose massive amounts of money each year to support their lavish spending, but still money problems were at the root of RVP wanting out.
Same with RoR. It's all about money. That, and I honestly think he is butt-hurt Landy was named captain of the team. I know his dad said he was happy, but you know RoR considered that a slap in the face.

I'm not going to say the ownership refuses to spend. But, don't I think ownership isn't going to pull the trigger on big spending unless it is going to put us at a championship level.

We just have to hope these young players pan out because clearly that's the path the Avs are sticking with.

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