HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Matt Carle

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-23-2013, 04:55 PM
  #101
fauxflex
Registered User
 
fauxflex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 306
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
I don't know what to say other than maybe you weren't paying attention. Perhaps Carle is only average at defending the cycle, but he can transition the puck so the puck won't go right back into their own zone.
Well, it's not like all of Carle's passes worked either. Some of them never made it out of the zone at all. And he rarely skated it out himself. There are guys on the team that are fully capable of making puck moving plays out of the zone that don't end up going right back in.


Quote:
It's not simple D-to-D passes, it's clean, smart passes that smoothly direct the puck forward. It's how Carle was consistently among the leaders in even strength points for defenders.
Carle didn't get a lot of his points from starting the play up the ice, he was the beneficiary of playing lots of minutes on productive units. He was opportunstic in pinching/joining the play once the team was in the o zone...he ended up getting some touches during scoring plays and collecting points. He didn't really key the plays very often. I believe the advanced stats indicate the Flyers scored at a higher rate with Carle off the ice than they did with him on. So what does that tell you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormMac
And if were so easy that "anyone can do it", why do so many of Schenn/Grossman/Coburn/Gervais's passes result in a stymied rush or turnover.
I think you are perhaps only focusing on these players' few obvious mistakes (no player is flawless) and not so much on the numerous solid plays they do make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormMac
It's not a fresh and objective to view exaggerate the skills of players on your team, nor is it fresh and objective to continue the unwarranted Carle bashing that was so popular on these boards. Gervais is a borderline NHL player, Schenn can't skate or handle the puck, and Grossmann can't pass and read breakouts.
Talk about gross misrepresentation! You obviously aren't watching or, for some reason, cannot recognize the things I'm seeing from these guys. Your assertion about Gervais Schenn and Grossman is way off base.

Here, let me present some evidence to you. I went back and took some clips from a recent game. I found numerous solid puck moving plays from all of these guys. Plays involving solid D, swift skating and passing, some of which I wonder if Carle would be capable of. Keep in mind, these clips aren't cherry-picked from a bunch of games, these plays are all from ONE GAME. I ask you to look at these with a "fresh and objective" viewpoint. If you're not blind, ignorant, or extremely biased, you'll be able to clearly see the puck moving skills these guys have. If you don't see it, well I guess there's nothing that will convince you. And go ahead and ask yourself when watching each clip, "Would Carle have been able to do that?" I have to think, at least in some of the cases, the answer would be "no" or "not likely". Also keep in mind, these clips are focusing on Grossman, Gervais, Schenn, Coburn and Gusty. Timonen and Mez are also skilled puck movers in their own right. My point being that the Flyers have multiple guys that can move the puck just fine, so they don't need Matt Carle in order to do it effectively.

HERES THE CLIPS - I TRIED EMBEDDED CLIPS BUT IT WASN'T FUNCTIONING SO JUST CLICK ON THE LINKS BELOW EACH DESCRIPTION:

Here's Bruno Gervais grabbing the puck from behind the net and swiftly skating it out of the zone and deke-ing a guy before making a nice lead pass to Couturier who takes it in and sets up a good scoring chance by Knuble:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osx2q...ature=youtu.be



Gervais clears up off of Simmer and out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REZcmLVU-KA


Grossman scores:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGwQKoZgIH0




Coburn joins the rush, gains the zone, setting up a nice scoring play

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u6s-FOiw1I



Gervais gets to the loose puck off a Penguin shot behind the net and makes a nice pass up to Read to start the break, Gusty joins the play, Schenn gets a shot off from the point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yS_4c7uCdw



Gusty up to Read (PK):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Oxdfyv6qtA


More Gusty:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huNk1VbEtz4



Off a D zone faceoff, Schenn takes the body, gets to a loose puck and makes a nice backhand pass up to Read to start the break:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AY6qmvPsQU



Schenn nails Dupuis into his own bench boards, then gets back in time to cover his man in the slot where he collects a Pens shot then skates up and delivers a crisp outlet pass to Couturier to start the break:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw41IoIIzRw



Grossman wins a battle along the D sideboards and gets the puck to Couturier who gets it to Talbot and out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKLdz8_G60Y



Schenn gathers the puck along the D zone boards, passes onto the tape of Timonen who passes back to Schenn who skates the puck up makes a nice lead pass onto the tape of Couturier who enters the O zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5F6-eUjd2o



Timonen from behind the net, up to Schenn who skates a bit before making a slick lead pass up the ice to Voracek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bayVnf675c



Coby and Grossman pass to shake off pressure from Crysby before moving the puck up to Coots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XLAdz9x_lE



This is a nice sequence for Grossman and Coby. Coby fights for a puck aong the defensive boards, Grossman comes in, gets the puck and curls around the slot before hitting G with a sweet pass that sends him off on the rush. They gain the zone and get to work, Grossman makes a nice pinch to keep it in along the far boards (25 sec of the vid). The guys set up and apply more pressure, with the Coburn moving the puck from the umbrella...the Pens get it out but Coburn skates back and makes a cross ice pass to Timonen who deftly enters back into the offensive zone, Lots of solid puck moving:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXTsXZE_CYA



Coby fights off Crosby to gain control in the defensive zone, makes a cross ice pass to Grossman who makes a nice pass up to Fedotenko to send him off into the offensive zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSEkqawEueA



Schenn pummels Kunitz along the D boards, freeing the puck over to Gervais who gets it to Talbot and out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VypINJgykl0


Gusty transitions quickly up to ZolnerczykzzzzkzkYYZ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBL47zem30Q


Cootz passes back to Coby who moves the puck into the zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THsCoINJuek


Grossman clears the zone for a line change, then moves the puck to Briere who loses it, then Grossman makes a great defensive play deflecting the dangerous pass from Neal to Malkin in the low slot up to B Schenn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvSK2rUcQ78



Coburn gets the puck back to him off the center ice faceoff, moves the puck up swiftly to Voracek who shoots in, the Flyers get posession deep, Coburn pinches into the slot and gets a good shot and Voracek puts in the rebound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWq1dIAlyLk


Grossman clears from deep in the D zone, setting up posession deep in the Pens: zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTw9FfkGVeA



Gusty and Coby move the puck nicely on the pp break-out. Coby gets a nice shot from the point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtSEwy2SxNU


Schenn fights off a forechecker and gets the puck to Grossman behind, who bangs it up the boards and out...the Pens re-enter, Grossman and Gervais work against the forecheck to clear from deep in the zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlx3NsaxxOQ


Gusty goes D to D behind the net to Gervais, who moves the puck up out of the zone to the forwards, which sets up an eventual goal by Simmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM2KkIPzOPY


In this impressive sequence, Gusty makes no less than six puck moving plays in a little over a minute (too bad the rest of the team wasted it):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt1uCF2C7qc


Grossman takes the puck off the faceoff win and moves it behind the net which he uses to pick the forechecker, he then skates it out with the puck confidently before making a solid lead pass to Giroux to key the breakout. Later in the sequence he helps out deep to keep the cycle going:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXyA_DWh5KM


Gusty uses a strong stick to force the puck off Sutter in the D zone. Gusty then skates up and goes d to do for Gervias who skates it up and out of teh zone before depositing into the Pens zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdjyveXw9Mc


Last edited by fauxflex: 02-23-2013 at 09:17 PM. Reason: fix youtube links
fauxflex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 05:00 PM
  #102
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,989
vCash: 156
Our forwards' turnovers in our own end and the neutral zone have been far more of an issue than the D's passing ability.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2013, 08:10 PM
  #103
SgtJoseph
Registered User
 
SgtJoseph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Northwest Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 3,419
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Our forwards' turnovers in our own end and the neutral zone have been far more of an issue than the D's passing ability.
I agree with this ! Our D has not been the problem some here suggest.

SgtJoseph is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 01:00 AM
  #104
Ryker
Registered User
 
Ryker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Triangle, NC, USA
Country: Slovenia
Posts: 2,886
vCash: 500
So on the topic of Carle, he has 10 turnovers, placing him 111th in the league, while our defensive juggernaut Coburn has 25, placing him 2nd behind Kovalchuk and first among defensemen


Last edited by Ryker: 02-27-2013 at 01:06 AM.
Ryker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 01:11 AM
  #105
Roo Mad Bro
U havin a giggle m8?
 
Roo Mad Bro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,717
vCash: 500
Really enjoyed watching some of those clips, FauxFlex.

They still need a good PMD, though, IMO.

Roo Mad Bro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 01:24 AM
  #106
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,989
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
So on the topic of Carle, he has 10 turnovers, placing him 111th in the league, while our defensive juggernaut Coburn has 25, placing him 2nd behind Kovalchuk and first among defensemen
I've been contemplating a Coburn thread for a while. He's been so awful. I've been theorizing that he has some sort of an injury, perhaps to his shoulder. Just watch him shoot; his shot is noticeably weaker than it used to be.

Not that he had a cannon to begin with, but it sure looks like a downgrade to me.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 06:06 AM
  #107
thelos
Bunk
 
thelos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I've been contemplating a Coburn thread for a while. He's been so awful. I've been theorizing that he has some sort of an injury, perhaps to his shoulder. Just watch him shoot; his shot is noticeably weaker than it used to be.

Not that he had a cannon to begin with, but it sure looks like a downgrade to me.
Yeah Coburn leads the team in giveaways and has taken a bunch of minor penalties

thelos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 06:42 AM
  #108
RJ8812
Gunner Stahl #9
 
RJ8812's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sudbury
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,025
vCash: 769
Coburn has been terrible. He's probably been the biggest disappointment this season

RJ8812 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 10:46 AM
  #109
CootaRoo
Registered User
 
CootaRoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 258
vCash: 500
What are you guys talking about? Coburn is a proven #2 defenseman.

-Chris Shafer

CootaRoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 10:51 AM
  #110
RJ8812
Gunner Stahl #9
 
RJ8812's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sudbury
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,025
vCash: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by CootaRoo View Post
What are you guys talking about? Coburn is a proven #2 defenseman.

-Chris Shafer

RJ8812 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 10:58 AM
  #111
thelos
Bunk
 
thelos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,610
vCash: 500
proven inconsistent

thelos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 12:12 PM
  #112
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CootaRoo View Post
What are you guys talking about? Coburn is a proven #2 defenseman.

-Chris Shafer
He was last year.

But thanks for coming out troll.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 12:14 PM
  #113
flyersfan187
Registered User
 
flyersfan187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morrisdale, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,831
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to flyersfan187 Send a message via Skype™ to flyersfan187
Coburn has always been inconsistent in the regular season. Come playoff time he will show you why you keep him on your team.

flyersfan187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 01:42 PM
  #114
CootaRoo
Registered User
 
CootaRoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
He was last year.
...

and I'M called the troll.

CootaRoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 01:43 PM
  #115
FlyersFanz
aut viam inveniam au
 
FlyersFanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BlkVanOutsideUrHouse
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,984
vCash: 500
No Matt Carle...he gave away pucks more than any other Dman in the league. Tampa can have him. Philly should try for Byfuglien if you ask me.

FlyersFanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 10:10 PM
  #116
fauxflex
Registered User
 
fauxflex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 306
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Really enjoyed watching some of those clips, FauxFlex.

They still need a good PMD, though, IMO.
Just got done watching the game tonight against the Caps (4-1 win). The D was mostly great, and excelled at moving the puck up and out of the zone all night and was a big reason the play was tilted mostly toward the Caps end of the ice.

I can post another 30 or so clips from tonights game with Grossman, Gervais and Schenn each showing more dynamic puck moving (skating and passing) out of the defensive zone than Carle typically shows. I know, for some this is hard to fathom., but it's just the reality of it. As a couple others have noted, the problem isn't the D not being able to move the puck, it has more to do with the forwards not supporting or maintaining posession through the neutral zone and bearing down on the forecheck. Tonight though, they made the most of it. Grossman started the breakout on the early first goal. The rest of the D, was active and moving the puck really well all night. Schenn, though not perfect, was a formidable two-way force, he made a great puck moving play to set up Talbot's goal and numerous other passes up tot eh O from the d zone and of course a ton of HITS. Gervais skated and made solid passes/plays just about all night. Grossman is just a revelation to me. He can move the puck really well with decisive skating and passing plays out of the zone. He also makes good keeps and pinches in the o zone, rarely getting beat back. He's also a defensive force with his physical game and league leading blocks. Regarding his puck moving, I know it sounds crazy to some, but I would honestly give the edge to Grossman, primarily due to his ability to consistently skate the puck up the ice, something Carle seemed to avoid if he could. Grossman also makes some nice, decisive passes so his passing game is there too. I just hope the guy stays healthy. He's the best D man on the team right now imo.

fauxflex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 10:17 PM
  #117
Giroux tha Damaja
Registered User
 
Giroux tha Damaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Giroux tha Damaja
I think you guys have a point about Coburn's play this year. He's struggled. But he was so consistently solid last year and has shown the ability to elevate his game hugely in the past, so I'm not too worried about him just yet. I think he'll be fine.

Giroux tha Damaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:17 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.