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Jets interested in O'Reilly? UPDATE: CGY Offer sheet COL matches

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:55 PM
  #176
Gump Hasek
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Originally Posted by atl thrasher344 View Post
I think he is saying that ROR and his agent are aware of the situation, not Little and his agent.
That isn't how the initial "insider" claim reads on their board though:

"Avs continue to want Little bad, both player and agent are well aware of the situation."

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02-23-2013, 07:56 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
I think some folks are overestimating the cost to trade for a holdout RFA, especially given that the cap is set to decline next season (meaning the number of potential suitors is smaller), and given that of those teams with available cap space - some of them are likely to be saving it to take a run at Getzlaf or Perry.

The cost for O'Reilly when a trade is finally completed could just as likely wind up being something along the lines of a Burmistrov, a lesser prospect like Klingberg, and a 2nd/3rd round pick or two.

I don't buy into the narrative being spun on the Avs board either. The info supposedly comes from a source close to O'Reilly... yet they also claim Little and his agent are aware of Colorado's interest in him? How does this person know that? Colorado are strictly prohibited from speaking to players under contract to another team, that is tampering... unless they've been given the go-ahead to negotiate with him, and that seems doubtful at this point. Some of the claims being made seem a bit far fetched or at the very least smack of wishful thinking, in my view.
Just a small point, and this may fall under the wishful thinking category. I took player/agent in that post to mean O'Reilly and his agent. That they were well aware of Winnipeg being a potential suitor. EDIT: Haha, great minds think alike atl344

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02-23-2013, 07:57 PM
  #178
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I wonder if Ryan calls his grandma Baba

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02-23-2013, 07:57 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
I think some folks are overestimating the cost to trade for a holdout RFA, especially given that the cap is set to decline next season (meaning the number of potential suitors is smaller), and given that of those teams with available cap space - some of them are likely to be saving it to take a run at Getzlaf or Perry.

The cost for O'Reilly when a trade is finally completed could just as likely wind up being something along the lines of a Burmistrov, a lesser prospect like Klingberg, and a 2nd/3rd round pick or two.

I don't buy into the narrative being spun on the Avs board either. The info supposedly comes from a source close to O'Reilly... yet they also claim Little and his agent are aware of Colorado's interest in him? How does this person know that? Colorado are strictly prohibited from speaking to players under contract to another team, that is tampering... unless they've been given the go-ahead to negotiate with him, and that seems doubtful at this point. Some of the claims being made seem a bit far fetched or at the very least smack of wishful thinking, in my view.
What I got from the post is that ROR and his agent are aware that the Jets are after him and that Little seems to be Colorado's target. To me it looks like the Jets may have been given permission to speak with him and his agent to find out what it will cost to lock him down. I didn't get the impression that he knew if Little knew he was on the way out or not.

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02-23-2013, 07:58 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Just a small point, and this may fall under the wishful thinking category. I took player/agent in that post to mean O'Reilly and his agent. That they were well aware of Winnipeg being a potential suitor.
" Avs continue to want Little bad, both player and agent are well aware of the situation."



They might indeed want Little; that doesn't mean the Jets are entertaining that request though. They could just as easily be countering with a lesser player and or a raft of picks.

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02-23-2013, 08:07 PM
  #181
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I can't believe all the talk on the main board and the Avs board about Trouba being involved in the ROR talks. The way I see it, Trouba is Chevy's guy. In 2011 when Chevy picked Scheifele with our first pick he was only a couple weeks on the job and was primarily going along with the scouts. In 2012 after a year on the job and assessing the Jets needs he picked Trouba with the Jets 1st, despite a lot of offensive talent still on the board. Afterward Chevy looked like the cat that swallowed the canary, he couldn't have been more proud of the pick. The WJC and all the accolades thrown Trouba's way just cemented this. There is no way Chevy moves Trouba before he sees what he can do at the NHL level, unless there is massive over payment for him, and even then I doubt it.

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02-23-2013, 08:10 PM
  #182
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I would be very pissed if Trouba is included in a deal for ROR. Avs better add Landeskog then, to any deal involving Trouba.

I like Little, but my belief is the core of this team needs to change, to be a playoff contender, and Little is part of that core.

My preference would be Burmi to be in the deal, as i like Little's versatility and chemistry on a line with Ladd and Wheeler, but if it takes Little and 2nd or 3rd rd pick, i'm okay with that.


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02-23-2013, 08:11 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
That isn't how the initial "insider" claim reads on their board though:

"Avs continue to want Little bad, both player and agent are well aware of the situation."
Avs fan perspective:

TPS is to be trusted. He has proven to have ties to a few players and one of them is ROR. You have to understand that our GM for whatever reason has mancrushes on certain players on different teams. Little is very high up on this list. Rumor was that the Avs went hard after him last deadline and that talks had progressed far enough that Little was asking one of the guys TPS has connections to about the Avs organisation and Denver and how it is to play for them. So I guess it was pretty serious.
I am not sure why it fell apart but I believe it was because of an insane goalscoring or pointstreak by Little right around the deadline.

As an Avs fan I would hate ROR for Little + small plus. With Sherman wanting Little bad I feel that we will get shafted and that Little + small + might just be what this deal will turn out to be.

Avs fans don't believe that we can get Little and Trouba for ROR.
I for one would easily add Elliott to ROR in order to get him.
For those not knowing who Elliott is: Was WHL dman of the year a year or two ago and has ridiculous offensive upside. Best wristshot since Sakic. But right now he is very bad defensively. He would be high risk very high reward. He was for some reason called up last week from the AHL (he just recovered from an injury and is not up to speed and struggling right now. So him getting called up was a bit a surprise and some of us speculated about him being showcased(did not go well if we wanted to showcase him I guess)
I still don't think that Chevy would do it.

But if you get ROR for just Little and a lesser prospect, you just completely robbed us.

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02-23-2013, 08:12 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
I think some folks are overestimating the cost to trade for a holdout RFA, especially given that the cap is set to decline next season (meaning the number of potential suitors is smaller), and given that of those teams with available cap space - some of them are likely to be saving it to take a run at Getzlaf or Perry.

The cost for O'Reilly when a trade is finally completed could just as likely wind up being something along the lines of a Burmistrov, a lesser prospect like Klingberg, and a 2nd/3rd round pick or two.

I don't buy into the narrative being spun on the Avs board either. The info supposedly comes from a source close to O'Reilly... yet they also claim Little and his agent are aware of Colorado's interest in him? How does this person know that? Colorado are strictly prohibited from speaking to players under contract to another team, that is tampering... unless they've been given the go-ahead to negotiate with him, and that seems doubtful at this point. Some of the claims being made seem a bit far fetched or at the very least smack of wishful thinking, in my view.
Don't know if I even want to see a trade at this point, but I'm also curious just to know what it would be.

Hopefully it's more in line with your thinking.

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:12 PM
  #185
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I'd trade Scheifele for a 99c bag of old dutch potato chips. I'd have no problem with the Jets trading him.

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02-23-2013, 08:15 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by FreeMason50 View Post
I'd trade Scheifele for a 99c bag of old dutch potato chips. I'd have no problem with the Jets trading him.
I forgot that if you don't like a player they have no value...
Trading him is one thing, but not getting back proper value can ruin a franchise.

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02-23-2013, 08:15 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Avs fan perspective:

TPS is to be trusted. He has proven to have ties to a few players and one of them is ROR. You have to understand that our GM for whatever reason has mancrushes on certain players on different teams. Little is very high up on this list. Rumor was that the Avs went hard after him last deadline and that talks had progressed far enough that Little was asking one of the guys TPS has connections to about the Avs organisation and Denver and how it is to play for them. So I guess it was pretty serious.
I am not sure why it fell apart but I believe it was because of an insane goalscoring or pointstreak by Little right around the deadline.

As an Avs fan I would hate ROR for Little + small plus. With Sherman wanting Little bad I feel that we will get shafted and that Little + small + might just be what this deal will turn out to be.

Avs fans don't believe that we can get Little and Trouba for ROR.
I for one would easily add Elliott to ROR in order to get him.
For those not knowing who Elliott is: Was WHL dman of the year a year or two ago and has ridiculous offensive upside. Best wristshot since Sakic. But right now he is very bad defensively. He would be high risk very high reward. He was for some reason called up last week from the AHL (he just recovered from an injury and is not up to speed and struggling right now. So him getting called up was a bit a surprise and some of us speculated about him being showcased(did not go well if we wanted to showcase him I guess)
I still don't think that Chevy would do it.

But if you get ROR for just Little and a lesser prospect, you just completely hosed us.
Thanks JoemAvs. The problem with us dealing Trouba and getting Elliot in return is that Elliot is exactly the type of D man we need less of, and Trouba is exactly the type that we need more of. Siemens would be a better piece coming back, but I wouldn't want to do that either as I see Trouba's upside as much higher.

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02-23-2013, 08:15 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeMason50 View Post
I'd trade Scheifele for a 99c bag of old dutch potato chips. I'd have no problem with the Jets trading him.
So O'Reilly = 99 cent bag of chips?

You do realize the topic of this thread, correct?

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02-23-2013, 08:17 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
But if you get ROR for just Little and a lesser prospect, you just completely robbed us.
Again, I'll just say that perhaps some are overvaluing the potential return for a holdout RFA that has already missed 1/3 of the season and especially given the declining cap. The return for O'Reilly could just as likely be even smaller than the above, or perhaps be more structured in picks versus actual bodies.

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02-23-2013, 08:20 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Avs fan perspective:

TPS is to be trusted. He has proven to have ties to a few players and one of them is ROR. You have to understand that our GM for whatever reason has mancrushes on certain players on different teams. Little is very high up on this list. Rumor was that the Avs went hard after him last deadline and that talks had progressed far enough that Little was asking one of the guys TPS has connections to about the Avs organisation and Denver and how it is to play for them. So I guess it was pretty serious.
I am not sure why it fell apart but I believe it was because of an insane goalscoring or pointstreak by Little right around the deadline.

As an Avs fan I would hate ROR for Little + small plus. With Sherman wanting Little bad I feel that we will get shafted and that Little + small + might just be what this deal will turn out to be.

Avs fans don't believe that we can get Little and Trouba for ROR.
I for one would easily add Elliott to ROR in order to get him.
For those not knowing who Elliott is: Was WHL dman of the year a year or two ago and has ridiculous offensive upside. Best wristshot since Sakic. But right now he is very bad defensively. He would be high risk very high reward. He was for some reason called up last week from the AHL (he just recovered from an injury and is not up to speed and struggling right now. So him getting called up was a bit a surprise and some of us speculated about him being showcased(did not go well if we wanted to showcase him I guess)
I still don't think that Chevy would do it.

But if you get ROR for just Little and a lesser prospect, you just completely robbed us.
Thanks for the info. I can appreciate your perspective but I see us having very little if any interst in Elliot. We already have the highest scoring defense in the league and still have young players in Postma and Redmond who can put up points. We need guys like Trouba who can play a shut down physical game more then we need more slick puck movers so I absolutly doubt that Trouba is going anywhere.

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02-23-2013, 08:20 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Again, I'll just say that perhaps some are overvaluing the potential return for a holdout RFA that has already missed 1/3 of the season. The return for O'Reilly could just as likely be even smaller than the above, or perhaps be more structured in picks versus actual bodies.
I tend to agree with this. Any talks with the Avs we are the ones dealing from a position of strength. It is their player holding out, not ours.

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02-23-2013, 08:22 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
" Avs continue to want Little bad, both player and agent are well aware of the situation."



They might indeed want Little; that doesn't mean the Jets are entertaining that request though. They could just as easily be countering with a lesser player and or a raft of picks.
I'll let the source speak for himself, but I took that to be awkward wording rather than claiming Little and his agent know the situation. Not sure how he'd know that, whereas given the claims from Avs fans, it does indeed seem possible that he knows ROR/agent are aware of Winnipeg's interest.

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02-23-2013, 08:58 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Avs fan perspective:

TPS is to be trusted. He has proven to have ties to a few players and one of them is ROR. You have to understand that our GM for whatever reason has mancrushes on certain players on different teams. Little is very high up on this list. Rumor was that the Avs went hard after him last deadline and that talks had progressed far enough that Little was asking one of the guys TPS has connections to about the Avs organisation and Denver and how it is to play for them. So I guess it was pretty serious.
I am not sure why it fell apart but I believe it was because of an insane goalscoring or pointstreak by Little right around the deadline.

As an Avs fan I would hate ROR for Little + small plus. With Sherman wanting Little bad I feel that we will get shafted and that Little + small + might just be what this deal will turn out to be.

Avs fans don't believe that we can get Little and Trouba for ROR.
I for one would easily add Elliott to ROR in order to get him.
For those not knowing who Elliott is: Was WHL dman of the year a year or two ago and has ridiculous offensive upside. Best wristshot since Sakic. But right now he is very bad defensively. He would be high risk very high reward. He was for some reason called up last week from the AHL (he just recovered from an injury and is not up to speed and struggling right now. So him getting called up was a bit a surprise and some of us speculated about him being showcased(did not go well if we wanted to showcase him I guess)
I still don't think that Chevy would do it.

But if you get ROR for just Little and a lesser prospect, you just completely robbed us.
Cheers, thanks for the informative post

The thing that will - if a trade indeed does occur with us - make this crappy for Avs fans is ROR is holding out, which gives the Jets more leverage, and thus the hypothetical deal would likely end up better for us

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02-23-2013, 09:05 PM
  #194
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I wonder if Ryan calls his grandma Baba
Rumour on the Avs board 100% confirms this. Should increase his trade value.

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02-23-2013, 09:20 PM
  #195
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Rumour on the Avs board 100% confirms this. Should increase his trade value.
Good. We wont get fooled again.

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02-23-2013, 09:34 PM
  #196
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If I may chime in here...

What JoemAvs posted was entirely accurate. TPS does have valid ties to a couple of NHLers, a lot of them, coincidentally, played for the Avs. He hasn't outright come out and said which ones he knows individually, with the exception of Ryan Wilson, but has, in the past, given us enough information to know that his information is legit.

And it was shortly before last year's trade deadline that he let us know some information regarding talks between the Jets and the Avs. That apparently, talks were advanced enough that it was heavily implied that Little, and his agent, became aware of the Avs' heightened interest and asked one of our (now former) players how the city/fans/organization was. That player was TJ Galiardi. While Galiardi himself was frustrated with his position on the team, but apparently had nothing but glowing recommendations for everything that Little wanted to know about the team.

Add on top of that, the uncanny coincidence that nearly all of Sherman's trade targets have been from the 2006 drafts, and/or have come out later that they were "longtime Sherman" targets.

EJ: 2006 draft and the GM of the Blues told NHL Live after the trade that Sherman had called him either before the season began or shortly after it began, the Blues GM wanted to table talks until a later date.

Mueller: 2006 draft

McGinn: 2006 draft, and apparently someone that the Avs and Sherman and Co. were/are very high on and wanted him badly

Downie: After he re-signed his agent had apparently given some quote that stated that he (Downie) was someone that Sherman had wanted and targeted. Downie had even given a quote that it was "nice to feel wanted".

Varlamov: 2006 draft. We also know that the Avs were shopping the 2011 11th Overall pick in exchange for a young goaltender at the 2011 Draft. Rumors were that they had offered it for Bernier/Schneider, and other rumors were that they also offered it for Varlamov, not sure which is which, but we know that they made the deal later for Varly.

That brings us to Little. He is a 2006er as well, so in accordance with Sherman's "Grand Plan" it's all but done that he'll be on the Avs (this is just a joke/sarcasm)!

But in all seriousness. I'm one of the Avs fans, while getting Little and Trouba would be awesome, I don't at all think it's possible. (unless like I stated on the Avs board, a scenario arose that Chevy and Co. are not happy w/ him, but that's not at all the case as I see/hear it)

And just FYI, the Avs do have plenty of Defensemen on the roster, one of which I think is going to be traded along with O'Reilly when that day comes. (Most likely someone like Hunwick/O'Byrne/O'Brien imo)

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02-23-2013, 09:42 PM
  #197
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Again, the Avs may covet Little all they wish; that does not necessarily translate however to that Winnipeg would view him as an appropriate chip in exchange for a holdout RFA that has missed 1/3 of the season. It is equally as plausible that the return will be less than Little (for example a Burmistrov) or even one simply structured largely in picks (given that picks are all it would cost the Jets to offer sheet the player to begin with). Why pay more? The Jets have all the leverage here.

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02-23-2013, 09:53 PM
  #198
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Again, the Avs may covet Little all they wish; that does not necessarily translate however to that Winnipeg would view him as an appropriate chip in exchange for a holdout RFA that has missed 1/3 of the season. It is equally as plausible that the return will be less than Little (for example a Burmistrov) or even one simply structured largely in picks (given that picks are all it would cost the Jets to offer sheet the player to begin with). Why pay more? The Jets have all the leverage here.
I would disagree, respectfully of course.

The issue at hand isn't that the Avalanche don't want to pay him like a #1 but want a return like he is a #1, as fans here and on the Trade Board have implied.

It's about the value of the 2nd Contract. More so because we just came out of a lockout. It's also about not setting a precedent that future Avs RFA's (and RFA's from other teams mind you) don't just hold out from what is perceived by the team as a fair offer, just to get more.

If an Offer Sheet were to come the Avs' way, I have no doubt that they'd match, because then they wouldn't be the bad guys around the league when it came to 2nd Contracts, and they'd be able to "save face" so to speak when they were in future negotiations by saying "Our hands were tied, there was an offer sheet..."

Add on top of that TPS has already provided us the information that Ryan won't sign an offer sheet. (Whether you wish to believe that is entirely up to you)

Seeing as how the Avalanche hold his NHL Destiny in their hands, for the most part, because he won't get UFA status until he's 27, they are able to wait until he either signs their offer, or they get a trade offer that they deem acceptable. Will it be the rumored return? Who knows, because each person in the Media (Dreger, McKenzie, Simmons, Healy, etc) have all given different answers to what the Avs are apparently looking for. Most recently it was said that if a team calls they're just telling teams to "Make an offer". (I find that to be a strange tactic, but I guess it could work if a team offers something redonkulous)

I'm not here to stir up trouble, but as someone who is both a fan of the Colorado Avalanche, but also a fan of Ryan O'Reilly. If he were to be acquired by the Jets, that would quite literally kill two birds with one stone for me, as I've been wanting a Jets jersey since they moved back up here, and I couldn't think of a better one than a Ryan O'Reilly one.

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02-23-2013, 09:58 PM
  #199
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If O'Reilly won't sign an offer sheet for fear of the Avs matching, that hurts his trade value. It sucks for the Avs but it is reality. Yes the Avs could just be spiteful and let him rot but that doesn't help their team at all either.

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02-23-2013, 10:01 PM
  #200
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I would disagree, respectfully of course.
That is cool, we can disagree on the value but I suspect you guys are markedly overestimating any possible return, especially if Little will be a disappointment. My point wasn't that the Jets could offer sheet him to acquire him but rather that the offer sheet terms dictate the theoretical return in trade. No one will likely pay outside of those parameters. Good luck if you truly believe otherwise. You guys are hooped. The counterpart has all of the leverage; the Avs virtually none.

What you have to offer is a holdout RFA whose value is declining by the day because the cap declines going forward. Other players will eventually be hitting the market as teams will need to shed cost.


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