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Old
02-23-2013, 06:46 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Smyth is awful but where does Yak stand in turn overs in correlation with TOI? I mean Hall, Nuge and Ebs all see significantly more time. Just curious. On a side note, smyth is awful. Oh I said that.

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02-23-2013, 06:48 PM
  #52
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Well played Mr. Liquor well played

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Old
02-23-2013, 06:53 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
Hey, if it was up to me Smyth would be on the fourth line. But considering that, like you said, the issue is ruining young players, Krueger should be watching Yak's ES icetime. He'd be a bad coach if he didn't.

And there was more to my post than what you bolded.
You said that Yakupov was a turnover machine and that you could see the reasoning behind playing Smyth instead.

I asked for an explanation of why that was in light of the stats that I linked that seem to indicate that Smyth is guilty of many more turnovers, along with about six other Oilers, some of whom played in the last half of the third and in OT.

Not trying to make you look bad or anything, far from it, Im trying to see any redeeming reasoning for Krueger's bizarre decision to bench Yakupov during that time period, when in my mind, he started to break through and was having a pretty damn good game after being moved out of purgatory and onto the first line.

Im not able to find any.

This clown (Krueger) was here for the "limiting" of ES time of Paajarvi last year. How did that work out? Seems like there still might be a player in there but Renney/Krueger/whoever ruined his confidence something fierce by limiting his ES TOI to the point where he regressed to be a shadow of the player he was in his rookie season.

I DO NOT want the same shenanigans happening to Yakupov. This kid came here with the enthusiasm of a child and a fire in his belly. Im afraid that MacKrugeRenney is going to quench that. It's happening already. If its allowed to continue, who knows what we will be left with?

I had no great expectations for the team this season. I predicted a 14th place finish in the WC. But the confidence sewering of our young players I will not stand idly by and accept as "good for them".

Our management/coaching is inept and rife with incompetence. I dont expect Krueger to turn this ragtag group of misfits and talented youngsters into a playoff team, but I do expect him to be a good steward of the most precious resources of this team's future. If he isnt doing that then he needs to gtfo asap.

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:02 PM
  #54
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Coaching isn't the problem. An imbalanced, il-constructed, Swedish Elite League lineup is, which sits, completely, on the shoulders of management

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:02 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
You said that Yakupov was a turnover machine and that you could see the reasoning behind playing Smyth instead.

I asked for an explanation of why that was in light of the stats that I linked that seem to indicate that Smyth is guilty of many more turnovers, along with about six other Oilers, some of whom played in the last half of the third and in OT.

Not trying to make you look bad or anything, far from it, Im trying to see any redeeming reasoning for Krueger's bizarre decision to bench Yakupov during that time period, when in my mind, he started to break through and was having a pretty damn good game after being moved out of purgatory and onto the first line.

Im not able to find any.

This clown (Krueger) was here for the "limiting" of ES time of Paajarvi last year. How did that work out? Seems like there still might be a player in there but Renney/Krueger/whoever ruined his confidence something fierce by limiting his ES TOI to the point where he regressed to be a shadow of the player he was in his rookie season.

I DO NOT want the same shenanigans happening to Yakupov. This kid came here with the enthusiasm of a child and a fire in his belly. Im afraid that MacKrugeRenney is going to quench that. It's happening already. If its allowed to continue, who knows what we will be left with?

I had no great expectations for the team this season. I predicted a 14th place finish in the WC. But the confidence sewering of our young players I will not stand idly by and accept as "good for them".

Our management/coaching is inept and rife with incompetence. I dont expect Krueger to turn this ragtag group of misfits and talented youngsters into a playoff team, but I do expect him to be a good steward of the most precious resources of this team's future. If he isnt doing that then he needs to gtfo asap.
You're right that Yakupov had a great game for the most part today and it was baffling that he didn't get a shift in OT. But I disagree that Krueger is somehow killing his confidence by playing him on the third line for a few games. This is the first time in God knows how long that the Oilers have the luxury to ease a top young player into the lineup. There's no denying Yakupov's talent or heart but I'm not convinced that Krueger's treatment has been a fireable offense. I also disagree that he should be blamed for the MPS debacle last year, considering that MPS has done quite well this year. And other than those issues I can't think of too many things he's done wrong. His handling of Hordichuk was bad and Corey Potter somehow finds his way into the lineup every once in a while, but he's done well otherwise IMO.

There is no reason to fire him, especially not 16 games into the season and with the well-documented list of problems on the roster. If Yakupov plays reasonably well on both sides of the puck and is on the fourth line by the 35 game mark, then we'll have a problem.

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:04 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
This clown (Krueger) was here for the "limiting" of ES time of Paajarvi last year. How did that work out? Seems like there still might be a player in there but Renney/Krueger/whoever ruined his confidence something fierce by limiting his ES TOI to the point where he regressed to be a shadow of the player he was in his rookie season.


MPS couldn't score in the AHL. I doubt that Krueger (or Renney) has stunted his career .... that's all on Magnus and his marginal talent.

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02-23-2013, 07:10 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
You said that Yakupov was a turnover machine and that you could see the reasoning behind playing Smyth instead.

I asked for an explanation of why that was in light of the stats that I linked that seem to indicate that Smyth is guilty of many more turnovers, along with about six other Oilers, some of whom played in the last half of the third and in OT.

Not trying to make you look bad or anything, far from it, Im trying to see any redeeming reasoning for Krueger's bizarre decision to bench Yakupov during that time period, when in my mind, he started to break through and was having a pretty damn good game after being moved out of purgatory and onto the first line.

Im not able to find any.

This clown (Krueger) was here for the "limiting" of ES time of Paajarvi last year. How did that work out? Seems like there still might be a player in there but Renney/Krueger/whoever ruined his confidence something fierce by limiting his ES TOI to the point where he regressed to be a shadow of the player he was in his rookie season.

I DO NOT want the same shenanigans happening to Yakupov. This kid came here with the enthusiasm of a child and a fire in his belly. Im afraid that MacKrugeRenney is going to quench that. It's happening already. If its allowed to continue, who knows what we will be left with?

I had no great expectations for the team this season. I predicted a 14th place finish in the WC. But the confidence sewering of our young players I will not stand idly by and accept as "good for them".

Our management/coaching is inept and rife with incompetence. I dont expect Krueger to turn this ragtag group of misfits and talented youngsters into a playoff team, but I do expect him to be a good steward of the most precious resources of this team's future. If he isnt doing that then he needs to gtfo asap.
Come on guys, a great talent becomes a great player. If he is any good, he will do it. Putting way too much on the coach. Players are at least 80-90% responsible for what they become, especially 1st overalls that r overflowing with elite talent.

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:16 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
You're right that Yakupov had a great game for the most part today and it was baffling that he didn't get a shift in OT. But I disagree that Krueger is somehow killing his confidence by playing him on the third line for a few games. This is the first time in God knows how long that the Oilers have the luxury to ease a top young player into the lineup. There's no denying Yakupov's talent or heart but I'm not convinced that Krueger's treatment has been a fireable offense. I also disagree that he should be blamed for the MPS debacle last year, considering that MPS has done quite well this year. And other than those issues I can't think of too many things he's done wrong. His handling of Hordichuk was bad and Corey Potter somehow finds his way into the lineup every once in a while, but he's done well otherwise IMO.

There is no reason to fire him, especially not 16 games into the season and with the well-documented list of problems on the roster. If Yakupov plays reasonably well on both sides of the puck and is on the fourth line by the 35 game mark, then we'll have a problem.
Last year the common beef with Renney was that he was playing Horcoff, Smyth etc too much and Hall, Ebs and RNH too little.

I dont see how this is any different.

Finkle is Einhorn.

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:23 PM
  #59
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Yakupov for benched because he turned the puck over at the blue line instead of throwing it in. The puck went the other way and forced nik to stop a slapper

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02-23-2013, 07:27 PM
  #60
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I didn't notice how bad Gags and RNH's faceoff %'s were. Wow they are horrid in the dot.

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:31 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by awesomo View Post
Yakupov for benched because he turned the puck over at the blue line instead of throwing it in. The puck went the other way and forced nik to stop a slapper
Hemsky does that two or three times every game.

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:33 PM
  #62
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Ugh with you guys, look someone should take matters into their own hands and organize a Rally to this end at the Oilers offices. Come on and step up.

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:34 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Hemsky does that two or three times every game.
It was near the end of the game. Hemsky is a veteran so he'll always get some leniency. This isn't a new thing. Every team is the same

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:53 PM
  #64
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Krueger is a nice guy, good motivator, and knowledgeable hockey person so I'm not going to throw him under the bus or anything. But I do question if his coaching style is best for this kind of team.

Throwing the system of play under the bus is an option, maybe its not the , Players, coach, GM, Stickboy, Trainer, good olde Freddy Chabot, or the Janitor maybe, just maybe these are all professionals who are exactly what we need but they are not supported by an adequate system of play, possibly it has been this way here for 15 years or so. We have changed almost everything else organisationally some things more than once, its time for a new perspective and a new attitude .

We arent the first team to be forced to adjust our system tactics to better fit the ever evolving NHL. And we wont be the last, the Oilers may choose to supress this immediate weakness but as fans we arent required to accept the runaround and the suppressive pressure exerted to protect the systems lack of integrity, after all the results are screaming out on their own.

Its not against any laws to question and expose a weak or inadequate system any more than it is to question and expose a players inadequate play or effort. However it seems as if there is a groundroots movement to supress anyone who even lightly discusses systems. Coaches wont talk about it, commentators dont like to talk about them, players wont divulge any data, websites which support free speech and freedom of the Internet seem to be the only place you can find system specific discussions that ARE NOT SUPPRESSED.

Yakupov needs to be on a line with players who compliment his skillset, but Ralph Krueger doesnt use Intuative Dynamic Analysis in his decisionmaking framework. Many of our players are being asked to execute system duties that remove their abilitys to use the specific small details that made them all special better than average players at all levels. This is poor asset managment enabled through the implementation of an inferior poorly suited to the roster system of play has held back this groups evolution in many ways to date. This may or may not be Ralphs choice, personally I dont think he has full say in what system we use, we have been saddled with this lemon of a system for many coaches tenures already. The hand of God is involved here somehow keeping this old nag of a system in the stable.

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02-23-2013, 08:04 PM
  #65
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I love how on this board and this site (this includes me somedays) we know what is best and what the team should do to win. We have not given Krugar 20 games and yet we want to fire him, same things with Quinn and with Renney

Curious to know how many of the experts on how to build and run a team have actually spent time in a dressing room at the the NHL or AHL level playing ( not getting a free show around), how many have actually been paid to be scouts and know what to look for in junior players or European players, without looking up what other professional scouts have stated?

There are problems still with the oilers, but I think some fans need to get their heads out of their ***** to realize that change wont happen this year and anyone who thought we would be world killers this year should take the season off. In the western conference many people were like me and predicted the oilers would finish between 12th and 9th in the west and after the games today that is where they are going to be.

Next season I think we will see the jump of the oilers in standing. But, the kids are still learning to play at the NHL level and it can be a painful process. THis season is about development and not winning

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02-23-2013, 08:09 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
I love how on this board and this site (this includes me somedays) we know what is best and what the team should do to win. We have not given Krugar 20 games and yet we want to fire him, same things with Quinn and with Renney

Curious to know how many of the experts on how to build and run a team have actually spent time in a dressing room at the the NHL or AHL level playing ( not getting a free show around), how many have actually been paid to be scouts and know what to look for in junior players or European players, without looking up what other professional scouts have stated?

There are problems still with the oilers, but I think some fans need to get their heads out of their ***** to realize that change wont happen this year and anyone who thought we would be world killers this year should take the season off. In the western conference many people were like me and predicted the oilers would finish between 12th and 9th in the west and after the games today that is where they are going to be.

Next season I think we will see the jump of the oilers in standing. But, the kids are still learning to play at the NHL level and it can be a painful process. THis season is about development and not winning
Beautiful post.

Honestly this is what I'm trying to get at. So many armchair Gms coaches here. From new age, to calling the guy a clown.

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02-23-2013, 08:37 PM
  #67
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He is a doof

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:51 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
I love how on this board and this site (this includes me somedays) we know what is best and what the team should do to win. We have not given Krugar 20 games and yet we want to fire him, same things with Quinn and with Renney

Curious to know how many of the experts on how to build and run a team have actually spent time in a dressing room at the the NHL or AHL level playing ( not getting a free show around), how many have actually been paid to be scouts and know what to look for in junior players or European players, without looking up what other professional scouts have stated?

There are problems still with the oilers, but I think some fans need to get their heads out of their ***** to realize that change wont happen this year and anyone who thought we would be world killers this year should take the season off. In the western conference many people were like me and predicted the oilers would finish between 12th and 9th in the west and after the games today that is where they are going to be.

Next season I think we will see the jump of the oilers in standing. But, the kids are still learning to play at the NHL level and it can be a painful process. THis season is about development and not winning
This post should pop up everytime you want to post something positive/negative just to remind people. Honestly I have been reading Hfboards since 2007 and I have never seen so many manic people posting. 1 day we are the best and were gonna win 10cups in a row and the next day its fire the coach, the players, suck, system sucks, fail for jones ect.

All our best players are 23 years old and under and developing. Please Oiler fans, give our core a chance to mature. This is not the time to panic, or make any drastic moves to move up a couple places in the standings. You have to be very very patient and just stick with the plan. Look at Quebec in the 90s, Chicago/Pittsburgh in the 00s, St.Louis, LA right now. They blew for so many years, but in the end every team won the cup minus St.Louis, and had solid playoff teams for years to come. LET THE CORE DEVELOP, once they do then we will add the pieces we need to win it all.

This team is going to be scary good really soon... It's certainly closer then farther at this point.

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:53 PM
  #69
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The Oilers would be much improved with 3 grittier, late 20s/early 30s forwards to replace Hemsky/Gagner, Horcoff and Smyth in the top 9.

Boston landed Horton and Greg Campbell for a 1st, 3rd and Dennis Wideman. That's the sort of deal this team (and every team) needs.

There are some targets out there. Okposo comes to mind.

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02-23-2013, 09:27 PM
  #70
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this thread

Yes, let's fire Krueger. Then we'll hire someone who can force Eberle and Hall to raise the puck more than an inch on their shots and make RNH actually hit the net this year.

Problem is when the goals don't come, we don't resort to getting dirty to get them. Throw them on net and work it to get an ugly goal. That dinosaur Smyth should be giving a freakin' course on dirty goals on his days off its pathetic how little we work for the dirty goals.

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Old
02-23-2013, 09:31 PM
  #71
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If they fire Freddy he will be in all your nightmares . You have been warned.

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Old
02-23-2013, 09:39 PM
  #72
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Only have to read the O.P. really?

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Old
02-23-2013, 09:44 PM
  #73
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While I am not on board with OP to fire Krueger, I must say I was pretty frustrated watching Yak have one of his better games, turn the puck over once, and get sat down.
You are telling me he wouldn't have been PERFECT for that 4 on 3 PP in OT? The quintessential trigger man.

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02-23-2013, 09:53 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
Someone was going to make this thread eventually. Young player goes out and sparks the team's comeback? Bench him and let Ryan Smyth lead the entire team in ice time.:ra nt:
Another fan like this ! Trade all our vets , trade Gagner , trade Hemsky , trade PRV , trade Yakupov . When will it end ? How are we ever going to grow as a team ? We have been bad for years if we can play around 500 hockey all year we all should be pleased . We went from 62 to 74 last year if we are at 48 points this year in a shorten season we all should be happy . Then next year we should be close to the playoffs or in them, the year after we should be a very good team . It may come sooner , but don't expect it , then be happy if it happens sooner . It a 5 year rebuild . This is year 3 .

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02-23-2013, 09:55 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
How many coaches in a row will you guys ask to get fired before you blame the real culprit?
Amen. And you're gonna fire the coach 15 games in? Really? If they finish dead last, sure. If they finish within shouting range of the playoffs, that's a big improvement.

Right now, it's clear that they're not firing on all cylinders and they're still playing .500 hockey, 1 point out of a playoff spot. You think that our forwards are going to be the worst 5v5 forever? Or that our shooting percentage is going to be a putrid 5-6% forever? Nope. Not a chance.

Last year, if we were playing anything but our top ability in hockey games, we were losing 2-3 games at a time, and handily. This roster's still just as crappy, our veterans a year older, and we've added 2 rookies and a #6 d-man. That's a lot of improvement right there.

Besides, Yakupov's been absolutely god awful outside of the offensive zone, and even there, he's still lost and just happens to have a hell of a nose for the puck.

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