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Rumor and Proposal Thread Vol. 4: Tambo: Here's my number, call me maybe?

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Old
02-23-2013, 11:31 PM
  #451
dustrock
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Voracek is also playing with Giroux, but point taken.

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02-23-2013, 11:33 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
Voracek is also playing with Giroux, but point taken.
Regardless, Philly took a possession of excess (star center with skill on a team with 3-4 of them already), and replaced him with positions of need (big wingers to play with Giroux/Briere), and a stud forward prospect. This is how you address team deficiencies

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02-23-2013, 11:38 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Regardless, Philly took a possession of excess (star center with skill on a team with 3-4 of them already), and replaced him with positions of need (big wingers to play with Giroux/Briere), and a stud forward prospect. This is how you address team deficiencies
It's good asset management. They move players around while they have good value in order to spread their cap out and fill holes. Holmgren is a great GM.

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02-23-2013, 11:42 PM
  #454
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It's good asset management. They move players around while they have good value in order to spread their cap out and fill holes. Holmgren is a great GM.
Well our GM and 97% of our fanbase hasn't grasped this concept. Instead they worship their Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov/Gagner shrines wishing for the day all 5 small, skilled, similar forwards bring us the cup.

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02-23-2013, 11:46 PM
  #455
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It's not that posters don't agree with moving some young players to upgrade other areas, but how has that worked out for Philly so far?

Pittsburgh, LA, Chicago, etc have never traded any if their core star players and have been fine by adding good complimentary players at all positions.

Why are we so focused on this high turnover Philly model that hasn't even worked?

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Old
02-23-2013, 11:48 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Well our GM and 97% of our fanbase hasn't grasped this concept. Instead they worship their Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov/Gagner shrines wishing for the day all 5 small, skilled, similar forwards bring us the cup.
What's worse is people expecting a bunch of kids to be competing at the top of the conference. We are in 9th....That's about where most expected us to be (if not a little higher). We are the youngest team in the league right now. I'd rather try the Pittsburgh and Chicago model of developing our prospects instead of the Calgary and Toronto models of trading them away for players in their late 20's to early 30's who may or may not help out the team now, but definitely won't 5 years down the road.

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02-23-2013, 11:48 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
It's not that posters don't agree with moving some young players to upgrade other areas, but how has that worked out for Philly so far?

Pittsburgh, LA, Chicago, etc have never traded any if their core star players and have been fine by adding good complimentary players at all positions.

Why are we so focused on this high turnover Philly model that hasn't even worked?
They lost Chris Freakin' Pronger, the franchise is still rebounding from that loss and still managed to make the 2nd round last year.

Pretty unbelievable trade for a team that was headed downhill after the 2011 playoffs.

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Old
02-23-2013, 11:51 PM
  #458
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1) If anyone thinks Whitney for Bergeron changes anything...it honestly doesn't.
2) Whitney for Boyle may be a good deal for us, but Rangers have Stralman/Gilroy and if they needed a trade, they would want a defensive d-man
3) Voracek wasn't really at low value, and honestly no one thought Couturier would fall to 8. The Blue Jackets were in must-win mode, and they always have to kind of think that way because they need the building to be full (although Kekalainen will probably build through the draft regardless). Carter was a bad trade to make because it was a bad fit. Nash can be a good playmaker but he needed a fellow playmaker, not a straight up shooter like Carter.
4) Paul Holmgren is not a GREAT GM. He makes some great moves, sometimes bold, that work fantastically. He also makes a lot of mistakes. Philly's D is an adventure, the team didn't replace Jagr's offense and Bryzgalov was a mistake. Yes, he was great at times in Phoenix and has flashes of brilliance, but Phoenix's system helped that and his price tag ended up way too high. Holmgren has never been able to shore up the D and goaltending other than the Pronger trade, and that's usually why they crash and burn. I'd classify him as "bold and not bad".

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02-23-2013, 11:52 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
What's worse is people expecting a bunch of kids to be competing at the top of the conference. We are in 9th....That's about where most expected us to be (if not a little higher). We are the youngest team in the league right now. I'd rather try the Pittsburgh and Chicago model of developing our prospects instead of the Calgary and Toronto models of trading them away for players in their late 20's to early 30's who may or may not help out the team now, but definitely won't 5 years down the road.
Since when are Myers/ROR players in their late 20's to early 30's?

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02-24-2013, 12:01 AM
  #460
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Holmgrem is a great GM. He has the balls to pull something off when he feels the need to do so. Richards for Schenn and Simmonds + Carter for Voracek and Couturier! Absolute steal trades that turned that team around. Schenn is already a better player than Richards, IMO.

Giving Bryzgalov a long deal was a mistake but they needed a goalie, he was the best available.

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02-24-2013, 12:04 AM
  #461
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Holmgrem is a great GM. He has the balls to pull something off when he feels the need to do so. Richards for Schenn and Simmonds + Carter for Voracek and Couturier! Absolute steal trades that turned that team around. Schenn is already a better player than Richards, IMO.

Giving Bryzgalov a long deal was a mistake but they needed a goalie, he was the best available.
This was a deal forced by ownership and the higher-ups, not by Holmgren. This information is from tweets sent around the time of Philly's departure from 2011 playoffs. He wasn't really wanting to over-spend on him.

Holmgren wanted to address the goaltending position, but I don't think he was gunning to spend >5M on a goalie.

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02-24-2013, 12:11 AM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Soli View Post
With Girardi and McDonagh getting injured tonight, the time is now get Whitney for Boyle done.
I'd be all over that deal.

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02-24-2013, 12:17 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Since when are Myers/ROR players in their late 20's to early 30's?
Trading Hall or Yakupov or someone like that isn't really going to end up making those types of trades worth it. And that's the only way we get those players. Personally, I'm content that the team is making progress in a lot of the team based areas like the PK. Even without the goal scoring they had last year, they are sitting higher in the standings. If and when they start scoring, that can only mean they will continue to move up in the standings.

I'd be trying to get rid of guys that have no real future here and guys that may not turn out that great like we thought. Guys like Whitney, one of Paajarvi or Harti and I hate to say it but I think Petry should go.

If they want to get really ballsy about moving forward, package one or two of those guys with next years first round pick. We should be able to get some size with a package like that, without sacrificing the current core of the team.

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02-24-2013, 12:29 AM
  #464
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
Trading Hall or Yakupov or someone like that isn't really going to end up making those types of trades worth it. And that's the only way we get those players. Personally, I'm content that the team is making progress in a lot of the team based areas like the PK. Even without the goal scoring they had last year, they are sitting higher in the standings. If and when they start scoring, that can only mean they will continue to move up in the standings.

I'd be trying to get rid of guys that have no real future here and guys that may not turn out that great like we thought. Guys like Whitney, one of Paajarvi or Harti and I hate to say it but I think Petry should go.

If they want to get really ballsy about moving forward, package one or two of those guys with next years first round pick. We should be able to get some size with a package like that, without sacrificing the current core of the team.
Okay.

1) What is Whitney, one of MPS/Harti, Petry, and a 1st really going to get you in terms of assets to fill holes on this team? I agree with moving these guys - but the returns on these guys will do nothing to really make significant changes to the complexion of his team.

2) If you do work a miracle and get a couple bigger players to compliment our skill, where are they going to play when we still have all of Hall/Eberle/RNH/Yakupov/Gagner on this team? You think getting one winger with size and power-forward style game is going to make that big of a change? You still have 4 soft players with similar skill sets making our offense look redundant.

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02-24-2013, 01:39 AM
  #465
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The Sharks and the Oilers would make perfect trade partners. Both have what each other need, and both are struggling, needing a shake up

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02-24-2013, 01:56 AM
  #466
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The Sharks and the Oilers would make perfect trade partners. Both have what each other need, and both are struggling, needing a shake up
I would actually argue the opposite. The Sharks have depth d-men available, but we have plenty of those that sit in the press box. They also don't have solid big 3rd line guys that can put up a few points, which is something we need.

They have Clowe, but he'll be suspended for 10 games.

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02-24-2013, 01:58 AM
  #467
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
Trading Hall or Yakupov or someone like that isn't really going to end up making those types of trades worth it. And that's the only way we get those players. Personally, I'm content that the team is making progress in a lot of the team based areas like the PK. Even without the goal scoring they had last year, they are sitting higher in the standings. If and when they start scoring, that can only mean they will continue to move up in the standings.

I'd be trying to get rid of guys that have no real future here and guys that may not turn out that great like we thought. Guys like Whitney, one of Paajarvi or Harti and I hate to say it but I think Petry should go.

If they want to get really ballsy about moving forward, package one or two of those guys with next years first round pick. We should be able to get some size with a package like that, without sacrificing the current core of the team.
I'm not really sure why, there's no sense on making random moves just for the sake of making news. Of course, Whitney is gone. Paajarvi and Harti? They're both showing improvement this season and are two bright spots on the roster - they are also two of the few forwards we have that are over 6 feet tall. Petry, again, I'm not sure why. Our D core is mediocre, why trade a good second pairing guy?

If we want to fill holes, it'll be Hemsky, Yak, Eberle on the way out.

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02-24-2013, 02:06 AM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
I would actually argue the opposite. The Sharks have depth d-men available, but we have plenty of those that sit in the press box. They also don't have solid big 3rd line guys that can put up a few points, which is something we need.

They have Clowe, but he'll be suspended for 10 games.
I like Galiardi also.

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02-24-2013, 03:57 AM
  #469
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Holmgrem is a great GM. He has the balls to pull something off when he feels the need to do so. Richards for Schenn and Simmonds + Carter for Voracek and Couturier! Absolute steal trades that turned that team around.
Yup. It makes you want to weep when you compare a guy like Holmgren with the clowns we have running our show.

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02-24-2013, 04:06 AM
  #470
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Brian Boyle's TOI from most recent until 1/26

2/23 @Mon 9:36
2/21 @Ott 9:38
2/19 Mon 13:24
2/17 Wsh 17:52
2/14 NYI 16:54
2/12 @Bos HS
2/10 TB HS
2/7 NYI HS
2/5 @NJ 9:36
2/2 @TB 13:49
1/31 Pit 16:44
1/29 Phi 15:03
1/26 Tor 16:04

It sure looks like he's still in the dog house.

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02-24-2013, 06:27 AM
  #471
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I love that a contingent of EA GMs thinks Paul Holmgren is amazing the season after the centers he traded away won the Stanley Cup in LA. Not to mention the Bryz deal.

You know what was better than a second round exit in last year's playoffs? Having Richards and Carter take you to the SCF two seasons before.

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02-24-2013, 08:20 AM
  #472
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They did the opposite of what you're supposed to. They traded players at their low value (Voracek) for a player that was unecessarily at his highest value (Carter).

Carter was already actually on a downhill progression. That trade was overpayment big time for CBJ just based on his reputation.
This is why I wouldn't want the team to move Gagner + pick for Clowe.

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02-24-2013, 08:38 AM
  #473
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This is why I wouldn't want the team to move Gagner + pick for Clowe.
Clowe is a free agent. Who is going to be suspended for a quarter of the season.

Gagner has triple his value.

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02-24-2013, 09:32 AM
  #474
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Brian Boyle's TOI from most recent until 1/26

2/23 @Mon 9:36
2/21 @Ott 9:38
2/19 Mon 13:24
2/17 Wsh 17:52
2/14 NYI 16:54
2/12 @Bos HS
2/10 TB HS
2/7 NYI HS
2/5 @NJ 9:36
2/2 @TB 13:49
1/31 Pit 16:44
1/29 Phi 15:03
1/26 Tor 16:04

It sure looks like he's still in the dog house.
It does appear that way. I'd love to have Boyle's 6'7 physical (4.35 hits/game, beats out Ott's 4.31 hits/game) frame pounding the boards around Rexall. For however long we go with 93 and 89 down the middle in the Top-6, have a gargantuan physical presence down the middle brings a nice compliment. He also makes the the amnesty buyout of Horcoff feasible without creating a hole in the lineup.

---

As I was peaking around HF this morning, I came across a pretty interesting post on the RoR discussion

ROR just turned 22 and is +154 in takeaways and almost 53% on face offs to go with his 107pts over 3 seasons.

Read the whole post if you like. The +154 takeaways is an eyepopping stat. You know who had stats like that last year? Datsyuk, Oshie, Brodziak, Chicago's top line.

There is of course, a whole bunch of problems with Edmonton trading for RoR.

- We're conference rivals (but with the possibility that we are in different conferences next season, perhaps the door opens a little wider)
- Speculation is RoR wants to be paid for his last season, doesn't want to be stuck behind Duchene and Statsny. I don't think he'd leave one team with 3 Top-6 centers to fall in line with Gagner and RNH.
- We don't have what Colorado wants (Top-4 blueliner). But I'd move our 1st rounder this year if negotations with RoR were amicable.

---

I like Clowe, but not until the offseason.

---

I'd still pull the trigger on El Nino for Paajarvi.


Last edited by Soli: 02-24-2013 at 09:48 AM.
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02-24-2013, 09:38 AM
  #475
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I wonder what Buf would want for Regehr, Ott and Foligno.

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