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HNIC shows new potential alignment with 16 teams in "east" groupings

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Old
02-24-2013, 12:04 AM
  #51
gstommylee
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Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
It splits up Detroit and Chicago.

Terrible
Correct me if i am wrong hasn't Detroit be a target for a while to move to the eastern conference?

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02-24-2013, 12:04 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by WinterEmpire View Post
Wasn't the NHLPAs biggest concern last year the competitive imbalance? Now they've just shifted that imbalance from west to east.
Yes, but this competitive imbalance may be balanced by the additional travel time that western teams must endure.

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02-24-2013, 12:05 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Correct me if i am wrong hasn't Detroit be a target for a while to move to the eastern conference?
Detriot has WANTED to move. I don't know if wanting to and being a target are the same thing.

I guess CBJ wanted to move, but to me, they really don't get much out of this move.
They're grafted onto a division where they have one geographical rival, and it's going to be a one-sided one, not to mention the cities have no history, as Pitt plays in the Big East/ACC.

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02-24-2013, 12:06 AM
  #54
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In what way is it "illogical"? It maximizes the number of marquee games between O6 opponents, which is great for TV.
Chicago, Detroit, and St. Louis have been in a division together since 1981. It is completely illogical to revert back to how things were in 1967. There's a lot of history between those 3 teams, all of which is much more recent than the Original 6 era.

And is it really great of TV? Fans of those teams should be watching the games anyways.

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02-24-2013, 12:13 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Chicago, Detroit, and St. Louis have been in a division together since 1981. It is completely illogical to revert back to how things were in 1967. There's a lot of history between those 3 teams, all of which is much more recent than the Original 6 era.

And is it really great of TV? Fans of those teams should be watching the games anyways.
If NHL is gonna expand as some point in the future they would have to realign again anyways assuming quebec city and TOR2 are targets of expansion.

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02-24-2013, 12:14 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by G Dawg View Post
Tampa and Florida are the only teams that stick out like a sore thumb.
I'd swap them for Pitt & Columbus to make a clean realignment but I guess keeping Pitt & Philly together is the league's top priority even though you could give them the same # of games against each other as division foes do in a schedule.

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02-24-2013, 12:15 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
If NHL is gonna expand as some point in the future they would have to realign again anyways assuming quebec city and TOR2 are targets of expansion.
That would push another team west. Unless Toronto 2 went west to stay out of the Leafs business. If so, no changes would need to be made except for the one team adjustment for the Jets.

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02-24-2013, 12:16 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
That would push another team west. Unless Toronto 2 went west to stay out of the Leafs business. If so, no changes would need to be made except for the one team adjustment for the Jets.
I mean with the proposed 7 7 8 8 realignment.

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02-24-2013, 12:17 AM
  #59
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As a Wild fan, I would look forward to playing in a division/conference made up of teams in the same time zone....It's tough to stay interested in away divisional games that don't drop the puck until 9:30 pm.

I also think it's fair that the Eastern conferences get the extra team in each as they don't have the travel demands that the Western most conferences would.

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02-24-2013, 12:18 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by wildthing202 View Post
I'd swap them for Pitt & Columbus to make a clean realignment but I guess keeping Pitt & Philly together is the league's top priority even though you could give them the same # of games against each other as division foes do in a schedule.
Columbus, Tampa and Florida are basically being left to die. Tampa and Florida are buried in that division and Columbus is just kinda inexplicably grafted on to a division when they could have left it at 15-15 by keeping them in the West.

They have no history with any of the teams they're in a division in and don't really have much hope of building rivalries or getting good road draws out of it.

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02-24-2013, 12:21 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
I mean with the proposed 7 7 8 8 realignment.
Well, if those markets are in the cards, this realignment is idiotic. Toronto 2 would have to go West and I guess they're banking on a relocation or something, unless they realize that CBJ in the east, in this alignment is a disaster, and move them back.

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02-24-2013, 12:23 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
Well, if those markets are in the cards, this realignment is idiotic. Toronto 2 would have to go West and I guess they're banking on a relocation or something, unless they realize that CBJ in the east, in this alignment is a disaster, and move them back.
indeed this 7 7 8 8 proposal only makes sense if phx moves to seattle.

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02-24-2013, 12:54 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Seattle in terms of a NHL team has been screwed for years. Failed expansion attempt that would had given seattle a team to ownership issues to arena being redesigned intentionally for basketball only.

I think that failed expansion attempt now correct me if i am wrong would had put a team in seattle and colorado which if been successful Quebec city may not had necessary lost their team.
Colorado did not submit a bid in 1990 (for the proposed 1992 expansion) - when Bill Ackerley (son of Sonics owner Barry Ackerley) stabbed his partners in the back and withdrew his/Seattle's bid during the December BoG bid presentation meetings. The other cites which had applied were Tampa, St. Petersburg, Miami, Houston, Phoenix, San Diego, Milwaukee, Ottawa and Hamilton. Tampa, Miami, Ottawa, and late entry Disney Anaheim were eventually selected - San Jose had already been awarded as a result of the Gunds attempt to move to Oakland and the Minnesota/San Jose Gunds/Howard Baldwin ownership dance.

edit: or were you referring to the failed expansion bid in 1974 (granted and then revoked). Yes, the other city originally selected for that aborted expansion (both teams to start in '76-'77) was Colorado - although I don't know if an expansion team would have done any better than the Scouts-***-Rockies who moved there in '76.


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02-24-2013, 01:02 AM
  #64
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I don't think it says anything more than it did with the last realignment plan.
I disagree with this entirely.

The fact that the eastern conferences had the 7 teams and the leaders for expansion franchises were in the east...that would have led itself to a natural fix. This now makes a jumbled mess where Columbus and Detroit may wind up moving to a different conference very shortly after starting anew in this new system (and the trickle-down effect that would probably kick Colorado to another conference as well)...to say nothing about what could happen with Phoenix.

It's obvious that the NHL's endgame is 32 teams...and it makes no sense to expand by two teams in the west while Quebec is building an arena and Markham seems inevitable. Phoenix moving to Seattle (or staying in the desert) creates no problem...but Phoenix moving to Quebec...good God. It's one thing to have Winnipeg in the Southeast, it's another to have Quebec in the Pacific.

Mind you that kind of headache would hardly be unprecedented...it just seems short-sighted.


As for Seattle...it's inevitable there as well. Be it Phoenix or an expansion team. Fun note to the Colorado/Seattle expansion connection in 1990 - both Denver and Seattle were set to get expansion teams in 1976, but when the Kansas City Scouts moved to Colorado, which caused the Denver expansion franchise to become redundant, Seattle lost their team. Unfortunately for Seattle the next time the league was opened up for expansion was the 1992 debacle (the Sharks were a special case and it wasn't a franchise that was up for bidding).

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02-24-2013, 01:51 AM
  #65
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The plan of these 4 conference IS to eventually go to 4 team division thus 2 divisions in each conference.

If PhX ends and Seattle , Toronto2, and Qubec City have teams then a divisional alignment Could be:

W1: Seattle Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton
W2: San jose, LA, anaheim, and Colorado

C1: Winnipeg, Minnesota, Chicago, St Louis
C2: Dallas, Nashville, Florida, Tampa bay

E1: Detroit, Toronto, Toronto2, Buffalo
E2: Columbus, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, New Jersey

A1: Montreal, Quebec city, Boston, Ottawa
A2: Rangers, Islanders, Washington, Carolina

There could be shifts with teams in E1, E2, A1, and A2

In expansion to QC and Markam what will happen is Tampa Bay and Florida would be to a Southern division and there would be some realignment then but not that significant.

If the want to stick with 2 conferences then each conference has an east and west divsion so all teams need to travel the same amount.

What could happen under the proposed alignment is the 8 team conferences go to 2 division formats, the 7 team conference stay as 1 division.

The playoffs expand to 24 teams....

in the 8 team conferences: 2 division winners get byes and the next 4 (top 2 per division or top 4 overall) get playoff bids. they play a best of 5 and then the winners play the divison winners with a best of 5.

In the 7 team conference the top 2 get byes and then the 3rd-6th place teams earn spots.

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02-24-2013, 01:54 AM
  #66
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I love the new alignment...

The obvious con: 7,7,8,8 team conferences.

I'm wondering if that concern can be eliminated by having 4 vs 5 playoff play in series in just the two 8 team conferences.

Potential setup...
- single game elimination play in
- soccer style 2game aggregate home and home.
- best of 3 : least practical.

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02-24-2013, 02:06 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post

As for Seattle...it's inevitable there as well. Be it Phoenix or an expansion team. Fun note to the Colorado/Seattle expansion connection in 1990 - both Denver and Seattle were set to get expansion teams in 1976, but when the Kansas City Scouts moved to Colorado, which caused the Denver expansion franchise to become redundant, Seattle lost their team. Unfortunately for Seattle the next time the league was opened up for expansion was the 1992 debacle (the Sharks were a special case and it wasn't a franchise that was up for bidding).

History of seattle hockey

http://www.seattlehockey.net/Seattle...d_the_NHL.html

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02-24-2013, 02:22 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
Columbus, Tampa and Florida are basically being left to die. Tampa and Florida are buried in that division and Columbus is just kinda inexplicably grafted on to a division when they could have left it at 15-15 by keeping them in the West.

They have no history with any of the teams they're in a division in and don't really have much hope of building rivalries or getting good road draws out of it.
Actually Columbus should be in the same division as Pittsburgh given their close distance.

Florida and Tampa Bay were put with the northeast teams because there are a good number of canadian who winter in florida...thus giving more fan draw to games there.

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02-24-2013, 02:24 AM
  #69
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To the poster who commented on baseball, you were mistaken. You absolutely can face your divisional opponent in the 1st round. New York vs. Baltimore happened last season.

And for it's entire history, MLB was: win your league ---> win the World Series

When the playoff format was introduced, it was ---> win your division ---> win your league ---> win the World Series.

Division ---> Conference ---> Cup is the was to go, in my opinion. That system provided the best playoff stories and rivalries.
New York and Baltimore was not the first round, but even in the Division Series round it was previously impossible to face a division opponent until just last year.

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02-24-2013, 02:28 AM
  #70
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If they have something like soccer where a better 5th place team can get in over a 4th place team....How will they determine it?

By overall record?

By a truncated 58 game record where teams played home and home among all 29 other teams?

Like I said above.....

a better option would be to expand to 24 teams making the playoffs.

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02-24-2013, 02:31 AM
  #71
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I've thought about this for some time...

Montreal
Ottawa
Quebec
Toronto (Maple Leafs)

Boston
Buffalo
Columbus
Pittsburgh

New Jersey
NY Islanders
NY Rangers
Philadelphia

Carolina
Florida
Tampa Bay
Washington

Chicago
Detroit
Toronto (Markham)
St. Louis

Dallas
Colorado
Minnesota
Nashville

Calgary
Edmonton
Vancouver
Winnipeg

Anaheim
Los Angeles
Phoenix (Seattle)
San Jose


The only thing would be to make sure you keep some of the great rivalries that would now be outside the 4-team divisions (some extra Boston-Montreal games, some extra Pittsburgh-Philadelphia games), but that's doable in my opinion.
You would think that these Canadian teams would like this, but at further inspection, the time zones would suck. Also they are not really "rivals" at the moment, that is reserved for teams you meet in the playoffs. How would the playoffs and round even work? Do teams only have to beat out two other teams?

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02-24-2013, 03:32 AM
  #72
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For those who fear for Quebec, theres nothing to worry about. Here are a couple scenarios that could work if Quebec enters the league:


Scenario 1:

Phoenix either stays or moves to Seattle and Quebec and Toronto 2 expand :


I:, Carolina, New Jersey, New York Islanders, New York Rangers, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington, Buffalo

II: Boston, Detroit, Florida, Montreal, Ottawa, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Quebec,

III: Chicago, Dallas, Minnesota, Nashville, St. Louis, Winnipeg, Toronto 2, Columbus

IV: Anaheim, Calgary, Edmonton, Los Angeles, Phoenix (or Seattle), San Jose, Vancouver, Colorado



Scenario 2: Phoenix moves to Quebec, League doesn’t expand (yet)

I: Carolina, New Jersey, New York Islanders, New York Rangers, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington, Buffalo

II:, Boston, Detroit, Florida, Montreal, Ottawa, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Quebec

III: Chicago, Dallas, Minnesota, Nashville, St. Louis, Winnipeg, Columbus,

IV: Anaheim, Calgary, Edmonton, Los Angeles, San Jose, Vancouver, Colorado,


Last edited by Jetsfan79: 02-24-2013 at 03:46 AM.
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02-24-2013, 03:39 AM
  #73
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For Detroit this is very good.

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02-24-2013, 03:53 AM
  #74
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I hope the Coyotes don't relocate. Rather see Quebec and Seattle (or somewhere) get an expansion team. If the Coyotes do move, let it be Quebec and then just swap them with the Jets.

There was a post on hockeybuzz about a different alignment, north south instead of east west:

Top 8 in each conference with three divisions of 5 teams in each.

NW: Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary,Winnipeg, Minnesota
MW: Chicago, Ottawa, Detroit, Buffalo, Toronto
NE: Montreal Boston NYR, NYI, NJD

SW: San Jose, Anaheim, LA, Phx Colorado
SC: Dallas, St. Louis, Columbus Nashville, Carolina
EC: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Washignton, Tampa Bay, Florida

...
I like the possibilities but have a feeling the Penguins would cry about it and it doesnt do anything for future expansion.

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02-24-2013, 04:00 AM
  #75
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Hawks get bent over, Wings get everything they want. They get less travel, better time zone, weaker competition and 3 other original six teams in their conference. Hawks lose a main rival and are the only original 6 team left in the leftover conferences. I still can't believe that the Wings get to escape the Blues and Hawks grasps at this point in time. It would've been fun dominating the division for the next 10 years and leaving the Wings in the dust but now it looks like Blues/Hawks is the only real rivalry in the entire conference.

The sad part is that if the Wings were in the Blues and Hawks conference then basically all their problems would be solved anyways. Wasn't that the reason we went to this stupid 4 conference format anyways? To make the Wings happy by cutting travel and no more 10PM starts but to still keep them in the "Western Conference"?

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