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The Oilers aren't being built properly

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Old
02-23-2013, 10:30 PM
  #26
worraps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
I'm pretty sure no one was expecting one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. There is a reason we aren't scoring.
The Oilers aren't scoring because the average age of the top 6 is 22.

If you didn't allow for the possibility that they would struggle, the problem is with your expectations.

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02-23-2013, 10:34 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
The Oilers aren't scoring because the average age of the top 6 is 22.

If you didn't allow for the possibility that they would struggle, the problem is with your expectations.
The average age was younger last year yet they scored goals just fine. Why is age bring brought up again?

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02-23-2013, 10:41 PM
  #28
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Op you're panicking here look at team right now 4th pk 6th pp 16 ga 5th in save percentage entire nhl and considering we give up more shots and a weak defence very promising. The only thing that has us from not being in a playoff spot is our 5/5 gpg and this will increase, and if we keep the other varibles around the same we will compete for playoffs this team is improving. Pulling the rip cord now on the young bucks would be foolish.

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02-23-2013, 10:51 PM
  #29
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Shot %:

Nuge - 2.5
Hall - 4.6
Eberle - 10.6


Result is anomalous and nothing but anomalous. There is no reason their % shouldn't be 2-3% higher a piece...easily. It is incredibly doubtful that there is a significant root cause outside of bad luck.

They dominate the other teams top competition on a regular basis enough and out chance them that this all seems a bit strange.

I know there is not much in stats but I've seen enough games where they've hit posts, encountered miraculous saves, missed the open nets enough to know that this can't be a permanent trend.

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02-23-2013, 11:04 PM
  #30
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We need size. Outside of the kids we had nothing of value to trade. With Hemsky and Gags playing well I think we finally have some other players with real value. Hemsky is the first to go. They wanted to trade him last year but he was just playing so bad he had no value. I bet this deadline he goes.

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02-23-2013, 11:17 PM
  #31
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There are structural constraints to any re-build, especially when doing so through the draft while being unable to sign high profile free agents to fill the needs. The truth is you have to pick the BPA when you draft 1st overall, especially when there is a notable drop-off in talent like was the case with RNH and Yakupov. Alas, neither particularly addresses the need on the team that already features undersized top 6 forwards in Gagner, Eberle and Hemsky.

Basically, the time is coming when the new GM (hopefully not Tambellini) will start figuring the identity of the team he's trying to build and what players will be leaned to accomplish this goal.

Other than Hall and maybe RNH, everybody else could well end up being a fair game soon--I would not be surprised in the least if we Yakupov and even Eberle depart in addition to Hemsky and/or Gagner.

Something tells me there will be a trade out of the blue in the off-season--something like

Eberle for ROR+

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Old
02-23-2013, 11:23 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
We need size. Outside of the kids we had nothing of value to trade. With Hemsky and Gags playing well I think we finally have some other players with real value. Hemsky is the first to go. They wanted to trade him last year but he was just playing so bad he had no value. I bet this deadline he goes.
Hemsky is earning his way to a cup contender at the trade deadline. He deserves to win. Don't think he will have a problem with moving (though he will be emotional, this has been his home)

Hemsky Whitney and Smyth, possibly Belanger have playoff value. Horcoff as well but the price may be too steep. Maybe more than the kids for playoffs.

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Old
02-23-2013, 11:25 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
I disagree. Eberle has proven he plays huge in big games. Hall, Nuge and Eberle should be the main one's to stay. Yakupov will be a top notch player and teams will know he can produce more if he's "the guy". He'll have huge value.

And what "big" games have the Oilers played in the last 3 years?

When will Yakupov get a shot at putting up a 75 point season when he gets no #1 line/PP unit time on this team? I'd rather have him cruise at his current developmental pace and potential and explode when given the shot than trade him away when his value isn't at it's peak yet.

Eberle's trade value right now is near-peak, and I feel the return for him would help change the complexion of this team heading forward.

His production will easily be replaced by Yakupov in the coming years, while the return he brings will help shore up other needs for this team (size in top 6/#3C/top-4Dman).

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02-23-2013, 11:27 PM
  #34
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You're not going to get a "good" 2C for Gagner because most teams don't give up that player for a Gagner.

Ideally:

Eberle fetches us a stud 2C (ROR+?) or a stud future top-pairing Dman (Myers, etc)
Gagner fetches us a big winger
Hemsky+ gets us a defenseman and/or stud 3C
Picks+MPS gets us a big winger

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Old
02-23-2013, 11:27 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
The average age was younger last year yet they scored goals just fine. Why is age bring brought up again?
Age is brought up because you're freaking out about guys who are avg 22. Their development isn't going to be linear. You talk about 2006 but that was a veteran team with a lot less skill than this team. When these guys are 26 instead of 20, they are going to be really good.

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02-23-2013, 11:30 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
You're not going to get a "good" 2C for Gagner because most teams don't give up that player for a Gagner.

Ideally:

Eberle fetches us a stud 2C (ROR+?) or a stud future top-pairing Dman (Myers, etc)
Gagner fetches us a big winger
Hemsky+ gets us a defenseman and/or stud 3C
Picks+MPS gets us a big winger
Please tell me you didn't just suggest trading Eberle for Ryan O'Reilly or Tyler Myers

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02-23-2013, 11:31 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Insta View Post
Please tell me you didn't just suggest trading Eberle for Ryan O'Reilly or Tyler Myers
Not straight-up. But for a combination of players that will address our team needs.

Imagine getting ROR+McGinn or ROR+David Jones.

Or Myers+Stafford

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02-23-2013, 11:40 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Not straight-up. But for a combination of players that will address our team needs.

Imagine getting ROR+McGinn or ROR+David Jones.

Or Myers+Stafford
And what you are giving up makes us a worse team not better . ROR so overated 1 good season Myers regressing Stafford regressing Jones regressing. So we give away our scoring , you think its bad now Sheesh.And the Guys you want to trade for how is their team doing .Yea no thanks.

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02-23-2013, 11:44 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
And what you are giving up makes us a worse team not better . ROR so overated 1 good season Myers regressing Stafford regressing Jones regressing. So we give away our scoring , you think its bad now Sheesh.And the Guys you want to trade for how is their team doing .Yea no thanks.
Eberle has had 1 good season as well...let's not kid ourselves about ROR's ability as a 2C - he can be a top-notch talent at that position.

Myers isn't regressing. He's a 22-year old defenseman that isn't even close to becoming the defenseman he will be in 2-3 years. Guys like Doughty, Bogosian, and even Pietrangelo as of late are undergoing similar issues.

Staffords isn't "regressing" - he's being misused.
Jones has had a slow start but has showed in the past that when healthy he can be a potent goal-scorer.

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02-23-2013, 11:47 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Eberle has had 1 good season as well...let's not kid ourselves about ROR's ability as a 2C - he can be a top-notch talent at that position.

Myers isn't regressing. He's a 22-year old defenseman that isn't even close to becoming the defenseman he will be in 2-3 years. Guys like Doughty, Bogosian, and even Pietrangelo as of late are undergoing similar issues.

Staffords isn't "regressing" - he's being misused.
Jones has had a slow start but has showed in the past that when healthy he can be a potent goal-scorer.
Spare me and you're giving away a lot more than Eberle, And I don't want a hold out on this team . One thing I agree with Kevin Lowe is he said they are going to build a team with players with good attitudes and who want to be here . And your plan is to trade away our young guys to teams who are struggling worse than us Major fail imo.

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02-23-2013, 11:52 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Spare me and you're giving away a lot more than Eberle, And I don't want a hold out on this team . One thing I agree with Kevin Lowe is he said they are going to build a team with players with good attitudes and who want to be here . And your plan is to trade away our young guys to teams who are struggling worse than us Major fail imo.
I'm going to quote a convo in another thread I was having with some other posters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83
Regardless, Philly took a possession of excess (star center with skill on a team with 3-4 of them already), and replaced him with positions of need (big wingers to play with Giroux/Briere), and a stud forward prospect. This is how you address team deficiencies
It's good asset management. They move players around while they have good value in order to spread their cap out and fill holes. Holmgren is a great GM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever
It's good asset management. They move players around while they have good value in order to spread their cap out and fill holes. Holmgren is a great GM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83
Well our GM and 97% of our fanbase hasn't grasped this concept. Instead they worship their Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov/Gagner shrines wishing for the day all 5 small, skilled, similar forwards bring us the cup.
You, my friend, are clearly in that 97%

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02-23-2013, 11:55 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I'm going to quote a convo in another thread I was having with some other posters:







You, my friend, are clearly in that 97%
And Phill traded for a 23 year old who was just starting to mature and A high draft choice. you want to move our 22 year old leading scorer from last year and our leading scorer who is 23 this year lol ok bud.

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02-23-2013, 11:59 PM
  #43
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And Phill traded for a 23 year old who was just starting to mature and A high draft choice. you want to move our 22 year old leading scorer from last year and our leading scorer who is 23 this year lol ok bud.
They traded a 26-year old established star for a 21-year old forward.

I want to trade a 1990-born forward for one that is a year younger. Or a Calder-winnning Dman from the same draft.

Ages are not an issue here. It's how our team addresses positions of weakness. Right now defensive play from our C's is a huge deficiency.
As is top-calibre talent on the blue line.

I'm not denying that Eberle is great, but I think he is WAY closer to his peak than Myers or ROR are. That and what he brings is similar to what the other 5 forwards in our top-6 bring.

If you can bring in Myers/ROR by only moving one of Yak/Hemsky - great. But you have to realize Yakupov's potential far supersedes that of Eberle (and his value is much lower), and that Hemsky isn't going to get either of those players.

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02-24-2013, 12:01 AM
  #44
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Trading your top scorer for underachieving dmen with long expensive contracts and 18 goal scorer contract holdouts isn't the way to build a top team.

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02-24-2013, 12:05 AM
  #45
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I don't get the obsession with size. We need guys who have grit and can score dirty. Guys like prime Smyth or Horcoff.

I don't think we should trade off our talented players for less talented guys just because they're larger. We've got a great core - we need supporting players.

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02-24-2013, 12:11 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
I don't get the obsession with size. We need guys who have grit and can score dirty. Guys like prime Smyth or Horcoff.

I don't think we should trade off our talented players for less talented guys just because they're larger. We've got a great core - we need supporting players.
To me the established "core" forwards is Hall-RNH and one of Yak/Eberle. You can't be using 2nd line W's as "core" players. "Core" players are traditionally your 1C, 1LW, 1 RW, 2C, 1D, 2D, and 1G. This is a model used by successful franchises around the league:

SJS - Marleau, Thornton, Pavelski, Couture, Boyle, Burns, Niemi
CHI - Toews, Hossa, Kane, Bolland, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford
PIT - Neal, Kunitz, Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Martin, Fleury
BOS - Seguin, Bergeron, Lucic, Krejci, Chara, Seidenberg, Thomas

Right now I wouldn't say Gagner is "core" calibre 2C.
Schultz is approaching "core" status as a 1/2D, but we need one more.

2C and 1/2D is our biggest deficiency right now. I don't know why people are hesitant to move 2RW's to address them.

Myers has shown his first 3 seasons that he's a capable top-pairing defenseman. 18 bad games to start a season and people are ready to count him out? I guess RNH is a bust too then eh?

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02-24-2013, 12:18 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
To me the established "core" forwards is Hall-RNH and one of Yak/Eberle. You can't be using 2nd line W's as "core" players. "Core" players are traditionally your 1C, 1LW, 1 RW, 2C, 1D, 2D, and 1G. This is a model used by successful franchises around the league:

SJS - Marleau, Thornton, Pavelski, Couture, Boyle, Burns, Niemi
CHI - Toews, Hossa, Kane, Bolland, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford
PIT - Neal, Kunitz, Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Martin, Fleury
BOS - Seguin, Bergeron, Lucic, Krejci, Chara, Seidenberg, Thomas

Right now I wouldn't say Gagner is "core" calibre 2C.
Schultz is approaching "core" status as a 1/2D, but we need one more.

2C and 1/2D is our biggest deficiency right now. I don't know why people are hesitant to move 2RW's to address them.

Myers has shown his first 3 seasons that he's a capable top-pairing defenseman. 18 bad games to start a season and people are ready to count him out? I guess RNH is a bust too then eh?
San Jose huge core has done squat with winning in the Playoffs When Chicago won the had a lot of smurfs other than Toews leading the charge and contributing.And Myers wad bad for long stratches last year as well.

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02-24-2013, 12:26 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
San Jose huge core has done squat with winning in the Playoffs When Chicago won the had a lot of smurfs other than Toews leading the charge and contributing.And Myers wad bad for long stratches last year as well.


One thing these teams have in common? They are a CONTENDER every year.

What are the Oilers? Annual contenders for the 1st overall pick.

Relax with belittling other much more successful teams.

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02-24-2013, 12:27 AM
  #49
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Myers has gotten worse every year. No, he hasn't shown he is a capable top pairing guy.

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02-24-2013, 12:30 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post


One thing these teams have in common? They are a CONTENDER every year.

What are the Oilers? Annual contenders for the 1st overall pick.

Relax with belittling other much more successful teams.
Lol do you know what a rebuild is lol moving on its fruitless to continue with you. Would rather watch a team gel and grow together than have A team like San Jose who is big and gets to playoffs and dooes sweet tweet . And now aging. Look at age of Oilers what are you expecting that they win the cup this year. But thats your plan sell off our best producers for Struggling dman Big forward Jones who has not helped Avs at all And Stafford who has had 1 ok season and regressing since for size. Sad.

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