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Old
02-24-2013, 12:31 AM
  #51
Joey Moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
I don't get the obsession with size. We need guys who have grit and can score dirty. Guys like prime Smyth or Horcoff.

I don't think we should trade off our talented players for less talented guys just because they're larger. We've got a great core - we need supporting players.
Rangers have been terrible since getting rid of Dubinsky and Prust. Even with Nash they are mediocre right now. Montreal has been great since getting Prust. Toronto has played good this year with Fraser, McLaren, Brown etc.. Prime examples.

You don't need size, you just need guys who are willing to stick up for teammates and intimidate your opposition. Anyone who has ever played hockey at any level should know size and physicality is intimidating compared to seeing a team and knowing how easy it will be to play small and skilled players.

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02-24-2013, 12:35 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Lol do you know what a rebuild is lol moving on its fruitless to continue with you. Would rather watch a team gel and grow together than have A ream like San Jose who is big and gets to playoffs and dooes sweet tweet . And now aging. Look at age of Oilers what are you expecting that they win the cup this year.
I just used the examples of 2-3 great rebuilds (PIT, CHI) for you and you just scoffed at them. I don't think you understand what a re-build is...

Sometimes you have to make tough decisions to improve your team. Pittsburgh moved Staal. Chicago let Havlat go. SJS traded Setoguchi after a tremendous playoff year. But they used moves like this to help address holes in their line-up and depth chart.

You're just too attached to the players, that's the problem.

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02-24-2013, 12:40 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Rangers have been terrible since getting rid of Dubinsky and Prust. Even with Nash they are mediocre right now. Montreal has been great since getting Prust. Toronto has played good this year with Fraser, McLaren, Brown etc.. Prime examples.

You don't need size, you just need guys who are willing to stick up for teammates and intimidate your opposition. Anyone who has ever played hockey at any level should know size and physicality is intimidating compared to seeing a team and knowing how easy it will be to play small and skilled players.
Montreal has been doing good because they have balanced scoring this year . Also the return of Makarov and emerging rookies Prust dd not propell them to 1st also diaz emerging as well, Paitence with their young guns Rangers struggling cause their older scoring stars not producing.

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02-24-2013, 12:42 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I just used the examples of 2-3 great rebuilds (PIT, CHI) for you and you just scoffed at them. I don't think you understand what a re-build is...

Sometimes you have to make tough decisions to improve your team. Pittsburgh moved Staal. Chicago let Havlat go. SJS traded Setoguchi after a tremendous playoff year. But they used moves like this to help address holes in their line-up and depth chart.

You're just too attached to the players, that's the problem.
Pittsburgh didn't trade Crosby. Chicago still has Kane and Toews. San Jose did not trade Couture. Eberle is not like any of the examples you gave.

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Old
02-24-2013, 12:44 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Montreal has been doing good because they have balanced scoring this year . Also the return of Makarov and emerging rookies Prust dd not propell them to 1st also diaz emerging as well, Paitence with their young guns Rangers struggling cause their older scoring stars not producing.


So basically you're agreeing with me.

Markov's return addresses a need - top-line Defense (core player)
Galchenyuk's emergence addresses a need - 2C (soon to be 1C).

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02-24-2013, 12:44 AM
  #56
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630 in the morning and I am about to go to bed--I will play along with the theory of this board

lets do a redraft game--only rules are that we can not take anyone the oilers took and the players needed to be available to the first time around

2007 3 first round picks
took--Sam Gagner, Alex PLante and Riley Nash
redraft lets take David Perron-C, Wayne Simmonds-RW and Jamie Bean-LW
2008
Took eberle
Redraft Tyler Ennis C
2009
Took Mps
redraft-- Zack Kassian
2010
Took Hall
Redraft--Seguin
2011
Took nuge and klefbom
redraft
Gabriel Landeskog RWand Andrew Shaw C
2012
Took Yakupov
Redraft Alex Galchenyuk C

So the lines look like

Zack Kassian Alex Galchenyuk Gabriel Landeskog
Jamie Bean David Perron Seguin
Tyler Ennis C Andrew Shaw Wayne Simmonds

__________________
not sure how--but the fish just jumped in the boat and put the hook in it's mouth
52299/14814
The twenty year rebuild is on!!! Embrace the suck
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Old
02-24-2013, 12:45 AM
  #57
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Did anybody watch the postgame interviews on the Oilers' website? Mikkel Boedker flat-out stated that the Oilers (paraphrased) "Are pretty dangerous for a team with no structure."

Call that comment sour grapes or whatever but I thought it was pretty damning.

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Old
02-24-2013, 12:48 AM
  #58
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When you play for Phx, you pretty much call any team you play against a "team with no structure".

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02-24-2013, 12:49 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Insta View Post
Pittsburgh didn't trade Crosby. Chicago still has Kane and Toews. San Jose did not trade Couture. Eberle is not like any of the examples you gave.
I'm not denying Eberle is a super talent, but he is basically a redundancy on this team with Yakupov around. And right now in terms of asset management moving him will benefit this team long-term in the future moreso than moving Yakupov. You'll get a greater return on the deal, and a high likelihood that Yakupov will replace his production in 1-2 years.

If Yakupov's value starts to supersede that of Ebs - then great, trade him instead. But I'd rather take a chance on getting the great return on Ebs rather than dealing Yaks before he comes anywhere close to his potential (and thus get compensated poorly for it).

I guess your trigger for pulling this trade is that moment you realize Yakupov is "getting it" and becoming that goal-scoring machine he is likely going to be, while getting 2nd line minutes.

At that point it's time to elevate him to 1RW and let Ebs go for whatever talent he can garner us.

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02-24-2013, 12:50 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
630 in the morning and I am about to go to bed--I will play along with the theory of this board

lets do a redraft game--only rules are that we can not take anyone the oilers took and the players needed to be available to the first time around

2007 3 first round picks
took--Sam Gagner, Alex PLante and Riley Nash
redraft lets take David Perron-C, Wayne Simmonds-RW and Jamie Bean-LW
2008
Took eberle
Redraft Tyler Ennis C
2009
Took Mps
redraft-- Zack Kassian
2010
Took Hall
Redraft--Seguin
2011
Took nuge and klefbom
redraft
Gabriel Landeskog RWand Andrew Shaw C
2012
Took Yakupov
Redraft Alex Galchenyuk C

So the lines look like

Zack Kassian Alex Galchenyuk Gabriel Landeskog
Jamie Bean David Perron Seguin
Tyler Ennis C Andrew Shaw Wayne Simmonds
That team is scary good - but I have no idea what your post contributes to this thread.

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Old
02-24-2013, 12:52 AM
  #61
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Trading any of our core right now is just plain foolish. Hemsky maybe gutting what we have been accumilating for lessr skilled size will send us back down. Eventually part of the core will be moved but reading some in here im glad Tambo and Lowe have paitence cause this team is improving slowly but surely, A few years ago everyone was gun ho on rebuilding now some want to blow it up . Lowe and Katz won't thank god.

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02-24-2013, 12:52 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I'm not denying Eberle is a super talent, but he is basically a redundancy on this team with Yakupov around. And right now in terms of asset management moving him will benefit this team long-term in the future moreso than moving Yakupov. You'll get a greater return on the deal, and a high likelihood that Yakupov will replace his production in 1-2 years.

If Yakupov's value starts to supersede that of Ebs - then great, trade him instead. But I'd rather take a chance on getting the great return on Ebs rather than dealing Yaks before he comes anywhere close to his potential (and thus get compensated poorly for it).

I guess your trigger for pulling this trade is that moment you realize Yakupov is "getting it" and becoming that goal-scoring machine he is likely going to be, while getting 2nd line minutes.

At that point it's time to elevate him to 1RW and let Ebs go for whatever talent he can garner us.
Yakupov hasn't done squat do deserve that. His only goals have been him standing beside the net. He creates very little, is constantly lost on the ice and is a huge minus. He isn't anywhere near Eberle's level. Eberle has scored highlight reel goal after highlight reel goal, creating them out of nothing. AFAIK Nail doesn't have a single goal that he has created. I'm actually starting to think you are trolling.

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Old
02-24-2013, 12:53 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Did anybody watch the postgame interviews on the Oilers' website? Mikkel Boedker flat-out stated that the Oilers (paraphrased) "Are pretty dangerous for a team with no structure."

Call that comment sour grapes or whatever but I thought it was pretty damning.
Idk if I'd call it damning, but certainly Phoenix has more structure. I think any team with Dave Tippett has more structure.

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02-24-2013, 12:57 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Trading any of our core right now is just plain foolish. Hemsky maybe gutting what we have been accumilating for lessr skilled size will send us back down. Eventually part of the core will be moved but reading some in here im glad Tambo and Lowe have paitence cause this team is improving slowly but surely, A few years ago everyone was gun ho on rebuilding now some want to blow it up . Lowe and Katz won't thank god.
I'm not against moving any of the core if the deal is right. In saying that I think there are smaller deals that could be made to help this team over the hump.

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02-24-2013, 12:59 AM
  #65
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I guess since trading Hall isn't in vogue anymore it's time to trade Eberle

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02-24-2013, 01:00 AM
  #66
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I'm not against moving any of the core if the deal is right. In saying that I think there are smaller deals that could be made to help this team over the hump.
Yes if Potential is > than what we are giving or proven track record and still under 30 not these trade for someone who had 1 good season and 5 meh cause he is 6'3


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Old
02-24-2013, 01:03 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Yes if Potential is > than what we are given or proven track record and still under 30 not these trade for someone who had 1 good season and 5 meh cause he is 6'3
Yea no trading any of the kids within the division. I'm against using any assets on ROR at the point on top of that.

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02-24-2013, 01:04 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Burtch66 View Post
This is like saying an unfinished House isn't built correctly.
When there are obvious flaws in the framing you don't need to finish the house to know that there is a problem.

Tambo has done an exceedingly poor job of adding to the foundation (core). Its almost like he is throwing up a couple of misfitting 2x4's with the expectation that the house will build itself....time is the only ingredient required according to Tambo and his supporters.

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02-24-2013, 01:08 AM
  #69
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i'm sure it's just as obvious to the Oilers' brass as it is to us what this team needs. Now, it's their job to make the changes/aquisitions necessary. can they do it? that's where I'm starting to get worried.

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02-24-2013, 01:18 AM
  #70
Joey Moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
630 in the morning and I am about to go to bed--I will play along with the theory of this board

lets do a redraft game--only rules are that we can not take anyone the oilers took and the players needed to be available to the first time around

2007 3 first round picks
took--Sam Gagner, Alex PLante and Riley Nash
redraft lets take David Perron-C, Wayne Simmonds-RW and Jamie Bean-LW
2008
Took eberle
Redraft Tyler Ennis C
2009
Took Mps
redraft-- Zack Kassian
2010
Took Hall
Redraft--Seguin
2011
Took nuge and klefbom
redraft
Gabriel Landeskog RWand Andrew Shaw C
2012
Took Yakupov
Redraft Alex Galchenyuk C

So the lines look like

Zack Kassian Alex Galchenyuk Gabriel Landeskog
Jamie Bean David Perron Seguin
Tyler Ennis C Andrew Shaw Wayne Simmonds
Right, this is exactly what I was getting at. I guess you can't read well.. I'll say it again. I think the Oilers have made the right choice with their last 3 first overall picks.

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02-24-2013, 04:48 AM
  #71
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Building is just incomplete

House cleaning is not over yet. I do not want share everything I wrote and learnt the writings of others

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...965&highlight=

Some concluding thoughts

1. Size, gritty and testosterone needs to be added
2. I am happy if we will get 47-50 points, we are still moving to right direction
3. Veterans who are not getting the job done need to be traded when trade market will be opened prior to dead line (Whitney)
3. Gagner-RNH-Ryan O'Reilly would be awesome 1-2-3 punch

I think this package can get him here: roster player (Hemsky) +Prospect (Pääjärvi) + 2nd round pick.

In the summer we have to replace Hemsky with 2nd line left wing power forward. I would try UFA markets if we will not need to over pay.

Defense force needs minor improvement guy who can move the puck in the third pairing. Upgrade to Whitney/Potter

Touch guy who can play regular shift have to be added in the off season

season 2013-2014 we can get points in the range of 90-100 depending our off season additions, injuries and divine providence called luck in secular circles

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02-24-2013, 05:32 AM
  #72
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It's funny because I was actually just talking about this with a buddy of mine on Friday when we went and grabbed lunch.

I agree we don't have enough grit/size in our lineup and this is essentially what we agreed on (I know I'm going to get burned for this but whatever).

First off would be to trade Gagner & Hemsky for someone big and good (preferably a C but whatever works).

Gagner and Hemsky have been having GREAT offensive production this season but they're prone to just the most bone-headed defensive gaffes that always hurt our team more than their offense helps it. Gagner barely wins faceoffs, is no good defensively (for all the talk of him working on it), and isn't big. Hemsky is done with us right away, so may as well get something in return.

Move Harski up to the first line to provide some grit/size and a presence in front of the net.

Harski - Nuge - Eberle

Now, what you mainly want for a C for the second line is someone who has some size and someone who can win some faceoffs. If you can get that in a trade then great, if not, why not test out some of the centers down in the A?

Hall and Yakupov will put up points regardless of who the C is as long as they're not Belanger-esque - they're missing someone with grit though. If the season continues to go downhill, try out Vande Velde - what do you have to lose? He's physical, he wins face-offs, he's defensively reliable.

After that, the Oilers have a plethora of 3rd/4th liners up here right now AND down in the AHL that you can fill your boots on in the bottom 6.

The big thing, though, is to get someone who can help maintain puck possession off face-offs in our top 2 lines and add someone who will bang and create some space for our skill guys.

Hell, the way Eager has been playing, I wouldn't even be against an Eager - Hall - Yakupov line.

Anyways, TL;DR
Harski to first line
Trade Hemsky and Gagner
Plug in random big player to second line

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Old
02-24-2013, 07:55 AM
  #73
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Rangers have been terrible since getting rid of Dubinsky and Prust. Even with Nash they are mediocre right now. Montreal has been great since getting Prust. Toronto has played good this year with Fraser, McLaren, Brown etc.. Prime examples.

You don't need size, you just need guys who are willing to stick up for teammates and intimidate your opposition. Anyone who has ever played hockey at any level should know size and physicality is intimidating compared to seeing a team and knowing how easy it will be to play small and skilled players.
This is the way I see it also. Role players are very important to a teams success. You need toughness and grit to go along with skill.
Taking Galchenyuk or Murphy would have been bette for this team in the long run

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02-24-2013, 07:55 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I just used the examples of 2-3 great rebuilds (PIT, CHI) for you and you just scoffed at them. I don't think you understand what a re-build is...

Sometimes you have to make tough decisions to improve your team. Pittsburgh moved Staal. Chicago let Havlat go. SJS traded Setoguchi after a tremendous playoff year. But they used moves like this to help address holes in their line-up and depth chart.

You're just too attached to the players, that's the problem.
You are rewriting history here. Chicago let Havlat walk because with his injury history and an impending cap crunch they only wanted to give him a one year deal. But he was 28 at the time not 19. This was not a core part of the rebuild strategy or they would have traded him for something. It was a disbute about money and term. Hemsky is the comparable here, not Yakupov or Eberle.

Pittsburgh traded Staal in good part because they knew he would not resign with them. He had pretty much already said he was going to Carolina to play with Erik. This was certianly not part of a rebuilding strategy.

San Jose traded Setoguchi after he was coming off of 36 and 41 point seasons. This was a team with Marleau, Heatley, Thorton, Pavelski, Couture and Clowe playing ahead of him on the depth chart. He is basically a 35-40 point thrid line winger right now and has been for some time. My guess is that if the Oilers had the option to trade Ryan Jones and a couple of prospects for Brent Burns they would do so as well. Again, there is no "rebuilding" going on at this point.


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02-24-2013, 07:59 AM
  #75
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This is the way I see it also. Role players are very important to a teams success. You need toughness and grit to go along with skill.
Taking Galchenyuk or Murphy would have been bette for this team in the long run
How precisely would Galchenyuk and Murphy have added grit rather than skill?

The funny thing in all of this is that Yakupov has grit. He is very strong both physically and on the puck for a guy his size. After Hall he is also the most physical of the Oilers top six. And he is only 19.

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