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Old
02-23-2013, 03:13 PM
  #76
Shrimper
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Michael Ryder
Brendan Morrow




Tyler Kennedy
Theodore Bluegers
Matt Niskanen
2013 2nd Round Pick

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Old
02-23-2013, 03:30 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
I'm basing my deal on the idea that Stars fans don't want Morrow
Well that's a silly thing to do. I'd be happy if Morrow was moved, but realistically my wishes don't have any indication to what the organization is likely going to do.

Trading a captain is a big deal for most teams, and Dallas keeps hanging around the playoff mix. When Dallas fans were pissed and trying to move Morrow, they were in the middle of a 4 game losing streak, and things looked pretty bad.

The only reasonable hope for a Morrow trade, IMO, is Dallas out of the playoff race by a considerable margin .... now more so than the past because of how well he's playing. Player value has zero to do with fan perception of a guy and trying to run him out of town.

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02-23-2013, 03:35 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Well that's a silly thing to do. I'd be happy if Morrow was moved, but realistically my wishes don't have any indication to what the organization is likely going to do.

Trading a captain is a big deal for most teams, and Dallas keeps hanging around the playoff mix. When Dallas fans were pissed and trying to move Morrow, they were in the middle of a 4 game losing streak, and things looked pretty bad.

The only reasonable hope for a Morrow trade, IMO, is Dallas out of the playoff race by a considerable margin .... now more so than the past because of how well he's playing. Player value has zero to do with fan perception of a guy and trying to run him out of town.
I understand, and I shouldn't have said I based it off of Stars fans comments, if he lost his spot in the top 6 and is a 3rd liner, I think he could be moved, but just like Ryder, he's a veteran UFA. Only difference is, Morrow could re-sign since he's the captain, unless the Stars want to go a different route. It's up to Joe.

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02-23-2013, 03:37 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post


Michael Ryder
Brendan Morrow




Tyler Kennedy
Theodore Bluegers
Matt Niskanen
2013 2nd Round Pick
This is just complicating a simple thread that was already moving in a decent direction aside from a few overstated demands for a particular player.

Speculating about Dallas trading one Top 6 forward is a reasonable endeavor. They have players potentially ready to take on a bigger role, Ray Whitney is probably only about 2 weeks away from returning, and Ryder has played down the lineup recently.

When you start talking about taking multiple players out of the Top 6 ... you're talking about selling off assets and giving up on the season. GM Joe has not done that in 4 years despite the team missing the playoffs all 4 years. I wish he wasn't, but as an eternal optimist, he always rolls the dice his team can sneak in. For a trade like this to happen, and I'm not saying it won't, Dallas will have to fall out of the playoff race by a significant margin.

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02-23-2013, 03:42 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
I understand, and I shouldn't have said I based it off of Stars fans comments, if he lost his spot in the top 6 and is a 3rd liner, I think he could be moved, but just like Ryder, he's a veteran UFA. Only difference is, Morrow could re-sign since he's the captain, unless the Stars want to go a different route. It's up to Joe.
True, but to clear something up he hasn't lost his spot. He's playing on the 1st line with Benn and Jagr, and I think to absolutely everyone's dismay in Dallas (fans at least), he's scoring again. He's still a turnover machine, but the old guy has taken this opportunity and ran with it.

As far as going a different route ... I do think this is last season, and I'm leaning toward them not re-signing him. I still don't think that means they'll trade him though. Yes I think it's a mistake not to move him, but we've watched GM Joe not trade Turco and Modano just to let them walk away for nothing in the summer. The Morrow situation is further complicated by a full NTC, and I get the feeling Morrow is buying into this team. If he was going to waive for anyone, sure the Pens would be at the top, but it wouldn't be that shocking for him to want to see what this team can do with Kari Lehtonen in net. Outside of 2 minor groin pulls, Lehts has been extremely healthy for Dallas, and he's on a roll this season. He should be back starting this Monday potentially, and the team actually does have a very good chance with him playing.

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02-23-2013, 04:58 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Nietzsche Zone Play View Post
If we're basing Morrow's play in a "what have you done for me lately" way, his value is much higher now than it was a few weeks ago. He's been tearing it up on the 1st line since Whitney went down.
Dunno, this "he has been scoring on the 1st line" never gets accepted as a sound argument for Dupuis being a 1st line player, so I am not buying it. Not saying he would not be an improvement, just that I don't want anything to do with Morrow for a 1st liner price tag.

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02-23-2013, 05:02 PM
  #82
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Don't see why both can't be moved.

Whitney - Benn - Jagr
Fraser - Roy - Eriksson
Vincour - Eakin - R. Smith
Nystrom - Fiddler - Roussel/Garbutt

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02-23-2013, 05:12 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post


Michael Ryder
Brendan Morrow




Tyler Kennedy
Theodore Bluegers
Matt Niskanen
2013 2nd Round Pick
If it were me, I'd say yes. But I cant see the Stars trading for Niskanen. And its too bad, because hes the kind of player(still pretty young, right handed puck moving d-man) that we could use.

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Old
02-23-2013, 05:21 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Don't see why both can't be moved.

Whitney - Benn - Jagr
Fraser - Roy - Eriksson
Vincour - Eakin - R. Smith
Nystrom - Fiddler - Roussel/Garbutt
I can't see why Dalals can't move Jagr and Robidas too. They could, but what makes you think they will at this time ... that's the point. It's not a matter of can Dallas accommodate losing both because they easily could ... it's a matter of what has GM Joe done to indicate that's something he would consider.

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02-23-2013, 05:45 PM
  #85
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Gm's do over pay for mediocre players.

But one GM doesn't, that's Ray Shero.

Unless you call Caputi + Skoula over paying for Ponikarovsky, or picks for Guerin and Kovalev.

A pass from the Pens.

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02-23-2013, 05:53 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I can't see why Dalals can't move Jagr and Robidas too. They could, but what makes you think they will at this time ... that's the point. It's not a matter of can Dallas accommodate losing both because they easily could ... it's a matter of what has GM Joe done to indicate that's something he would consider.
And therein lies the issue. Would Gagliardi tolerate a firesale and one flat out miserable season in order to hopefully position themselves to actually compete next season?

I have doubts even with his blessing JN would do that because in a way it condemns all his work this off season to improve the team. In effect it says he failed, though really he couldn't truly improve this defense because the FA defenders never really gave Dallas a look.

I would hope this year he'd consider it. If for no other reason than the youth movement is beginning to pay dividends. A few more players/picks may speed up that process.

Jagr and Ryder seem the most likely to move. I'd be pretty surprised if Ryder isn't and I would think they are in 9th or below they'd at least speak to Jagr to gauge his interest.

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:21 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I can't see why Dalals can't move Jagr and Robidas too. They could, but what makes you think they will at this time ... that's the point. It's not a matter of can Dallas accommodate losing both because they easily could ... it's a matter of what has GM Joe done to indicate that's something he would consider.
I was trying to point out that, even if we were to send Fraser down again, that forward group is still competitive. Not that much worse than we've got now (healthy, of course).

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02-23-2013, 09:33 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I never mentioned you living in a fantasy world. You seem weirdly aggressive and angry about this.

If you aren't mentioning a 1st and you aren't mentioning a top-flight D prospect, not sure what you're mentioning.

But ANGRY MESSAGE TO YOU TOO, sir.
I didn't mean for all of that part of the post to be directed at you, apologies. 2 a.m. post bar talk.

My point, which got buried, is basically that I don't think we're good trading partners on this particular player. You guys are all right about your GM's history of not giving up too much at the deadline, but that doesn't mean we couldn't shop Ryder elsewhere and get one of someone else's top young defense prospects or roster player. Nashville comes to mind.

The one thing I would point out is that Pittsburgh is a favored destination of a lot of guys. I'm not sure what the Pens' cap situation is going forward but I can't imagine Ryder would command a raise over his current affordable contract. Why does he have to be assumed to be a pure rental? Chances are good he would sign a similar two year contract in Pittsburgh to get a chance to play with one of the world's best players.

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02-23-2013, 09:40 PM
  #89
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What about Jagr making a brief return to Pittsburgh?

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Old
02-23-2013, 10:09 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
If all Ryder can return is a 2nd round pick (from a good team) then I'd rather just keep him for our own playoff push.

I don't mean for this to come across as rude Pens fans, just my view from the outside of your team's situation. You're constantly in the thick of things contention-wise because of Crosby and Malkin. You now have a legit goal scoring winger for one of those centers (Neal) but because of the makeup of your team it seems unless or until you guys develop your own scoring winger to compliment what Neal brings to the table, you'll constantly be in search of a little added scoring punch to really make noise in the playoffs and get back to the SCF. Your organization is adept at developing defensemen yet seems to get somewhat opposite results developing wingers.

I know you'd like to have your cake and eat it too, and I'm not trying to over-sell Ryder's abilities, but I would think a guy who is a proven playoff performer that scored 35 goals a season ago would be a pretty tantalizing weapon to add for a playoff run. A mid/low 2nd round pick is not equally tantalizing to me as a Stars fan given that Grossmann, a solid but unspectacular defensive defenseman with an expiring contract, netted a 2nd round pick. Ryder is quite a bit more valuable as a trade deadline commodity than Grossmann.

I understand the desire to pay as little as possible but if the best being offered is a Pittsburgh 2nd round pick I really hope Nieuwendyk either finds a better offer elsewhere or just keeps him for ourselves.
Ryder's currently on pace for 22 goals (82 game pace). Basically he's an inconsistent player. If Dallas is expecting a 1st or a top prospect for him, then I'd look elsewhere. I would give a 2nd and a middle prospect (we have several of those). If Dallas could get a better offer, then that's fine. So while I think Ryder could help, there's other players out there worth giving up quality pieces for (one of our top D prospects).

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02-23-2013, 10:49 PM
  #91
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What about Jagr making a brief return to Pittsburgh?
I can't see it.

Apparently, he does not have the greatest relationship with that organization anymore.

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02-24-2013, 01:39 AM
  #92
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I can't see it.

Apparently, he does not have the greatest relationship with that organization anymore.
I love that he has a 50/50 shot at the playoffs right now, I don't hate the stars, but I really want to see him golf early this year.

I don't hold grudges, but I'm too stubborn not to hold one against Jagr.

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02-24-2013, 01:42 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
I love that he has a 50/50 shot at the playoffs right now, I don't hate the stars, but I really want to see him golf early this year.

I don't hold grudges, but I'm too stubborn not to hold one against Jagr.
He doesn't care about the playoffs, or another Cup for that matter. All he cares about is making more money and moving up the scoring charts...

Surely you knew that already...c'mon...

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02-24-2013, 01:57 AM
  #94
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Curious, how much of Ryder's goals last year were because of Benn? Looking at his numbers this year, I guess the Pens should trade Dupuis now, more value than him considering the #'s he put up last year without Crosby, seems legit.

And yes, the guy I mentioned, Poni, was on a better ppg pace than Ryder was when he was moved, Ryder is on a lesser point pace and he's worth more? Hopefully the Stars do well with selling him high to a desperate team. Again, Shero won't be that desperate GM.

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02-24-2013, 01:58 AM
  #95
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He doesn't care about the playoffs, or another Cup for that matter. All he cares about is making more money and moving up the scoring charts...

Surely you knew that already...c'mon...
Them gambling debts, yo.


Ryder caught lightning in a bottle last year with Eriksson and Benn. His numbers had a lot more to do with how good those two were last year than him. Good luck to the poor sucker that pays up big for him. Pens needs have changed after the last game at this point in time.


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02-24-2013, 01:59 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Curious, how much of Ryder's goals last year were because of Benn? Looking at his numbers this year, I guess the Pens should trade Dupuis now, more value than him considering the #'s he put up last year without Crosby, seems legit.

And yes, the guy I mentioned, Poni, was on a better ppg pace than Ryder was when he was moved, Ryder is on a lesser point pace and he's worth more? Hopefully the Stars do well with selling him high to a desperate team. Again, Shero won't be that desperate GM.
Could you be any bigger of a homer?

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02-24-2013, 02:04 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Could you be any bigger of a homer?
A quick search for last year's number shows Eriksson & Benn a lot. The guy scored under 20 goals his last 2yrs with Boston, they were a deep team too. He had a great year last year, this year, he's come back down.

I'm not a homer, perhaps you are thinking his value is greater than it is. Honesty hurts sometimes. I don't think you understand the definition of homer. What bothers you? The fact that we are well informed about our GM's trading habits? The fact that Shero gave up Caputi + Skoula for Ponikarovksy, who was more consistent of a player than Ryder was when the Pens traded for him and is not a bad basis for comparison?

What bothers you exactly? Because the logic I am bringing to you, clearly seems to bother you Stars fans. I don't get it. As a Pens fan, I say no thanks to Ryder and yet this bothers you all.

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02-24-2013, 02:12 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
I love that he has a 50/50 shot at the playoffs right now, I don't hate the stars, but I really want to see him golf early this year.

I don't hold grudges, but I'm too stubborn not to hold one against Jagr.
So much bleh in this post. The Jagr hating from some Pens fans needs to stop.

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02-24-2013, 03:00 AM
  #99
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So much bleh in this post. The Jagr hating from some Pens fans needs to stop.
i understand time heals a lot of grudges, especially over pro sports, but the "dying alive" garbage still stings

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02-24-2013, 03:03 AM
  #100
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So much bleh in this post. The Jagr hating from some Pens fans needs to stop.
I am over the dying alive thing, I don't like how he went about the whole Flyers signing thing. In any case, I am entitled to not like Jagr for my own reasons, if he comes back to the Pens and he's all "I should have signed here in the first place" then hey I might get over it.

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