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Phoenix LXXII: Send in the Clowns

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Old
02-23-2013, 04:32 PM
  #401
DyerMaker66
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Why would MLSE agree to incubate the competition?
Because with the Buds' owners being two communication companies, they stand to make a tonne of money from the broadcasting rights of the new team. And, as The Bobcat put it, when this relationship goes sour (like it undoubtedly will) it will leave one owner out in the cold but with the means and the relationships for another team to be placed in the same, lucrative market.

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02-23-2013, 05:09 PM
  #402
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This 2 weeks will never end...

I know the groundhog day comparison has been made, but it really does feel like that, what year is it?

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02-23-2013, 05:31 PM
  #403
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They won't. That's why every scenario involving southern Ontario involves expansion, with either Hamilton or Markham as the target. Absolutely no one is including Toronto, the GTA, or any part of southern Ontario as a serious relocation target for a reason.

As far as this nonsense about how a second hockey team in the ACC would equate to what the Kings, Lakers, and Clippers deal with at Staples, there is one major league difference: the third wheel team in LA is a basketball team. They have their own floor, which takes the same amount of upkeep and damage as the Lakers' floor. In the case of a second NHL team in Toronto, you're looking at two teams sharing the same ice sheet that undergoes changes no more than twice a year. The ice would be below OHL standards by Christmas, and borderline unplayable at some point in the year. Yeah, logistically, three teams can share a venue, but not two NHL teams. Not anymore.

Oh, and about MLSE wanting to kill a second NHL-quality arena in the GTA, this part probably needs to be emphasized: they don't care. Everyone in the league knows that the fourth-largest city in North America is comically underserviced by the NHL (NYC has THREE NHL teams, LA has 1.5, and Chicago has only the one, but it's in the fifth year of a renaissance), and it's only a matter of time before one of the 'burbs gets an arena built with the goal of landing an expansion franchise. MLSE will simply put up a fight until they think they've maximized their indemnity award from the new team, then step aside. After all, it will be a long time before Toronto2 affects the Leafs' bottom line, what with the sellouts despite being the only franchise to miss the playoffs since the 2004-05 lockout AND the highest average ticket price in the league by a considerable margin.
Huh? We had the technology to send a man to the moon in 1969, but 44 years later we can't keep the ice at the ACC in good enough condition for 2 teams? We can do it for 1 team and 41 home games per year, but not 2 teams and 82 games?

The saddledome in Calgary is home to the Flames, as well as the Calgary hitmen of the WHL, the Calgary Roughnecks lacrosse team, plus concerts and other events. I wonder how they manage that? Maybe the ACC folks need to call them up for some pointers.

The Rexall Place in Edmonton has long been viewed as having one of the best kept ice surfaces in the nhl. Rexall also happens to be the home of the Edmonton oil Kings of the WHL, and the Edmonton Rush of the National Lacrosse League. I'm sure I could find more examples if I looked.

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02-23-2013, 08:53 PM
  #404
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I think changing the logo at center ice every other day would be problematic.

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02-23-2013, 09:00 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Everyone here is forgetting Toronto. A second team could play in the ACC. (Witness the Staples Center) An Ontario franchise would be worth millions to the NHL above and beyond the costs incurred in owning and operating the Coyotes. Potential owners would be lined up out the door. And by accomodating a second team in the ACC, the Leafs would effectively kill the chances of a second NHL size arena being built in the Tornoto metropolitan area.
All you need is a magic wand.

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02-23-2013, 09:32 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
This 2 weeks will never end...

I know the groundhog day comparison has been made, but it really does feel like that, what year is it?
a 48 game schedule means it won't be until really late in the season before anyone is actually eliminated so they will keep things going as long as possible. They could secretly agree with whatever city to make a move and not announce it until after the Yotes are eliminated.

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Old
02-24-2013, 01:43 AM
  #407
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but I stick around here for substance and posts like the OP's are just completely useless, even if the bar is pretty low already
Agreed. I'd love to have a recliner's worth of substance to relax in, but we hardly have enough to construct an ottoman.

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02-24-2013, 03:14 AM
  #408
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Agreed. I'd love to have a recliner's worth of substance to relax in, but we hardly have enough to construct an ottoman.
Well damn dude. The posters here try our best. However substance would consist of one of 3 things:

1) The NHL announces a deal with a lease and an owner with real cash is announced. The only way I can see that is if Glendale accepts one a lot less than an ironclad 20 years. Which they are now willing to do.

2) The NHL announces they are now opening the bidding to owners who want to relo the team.

3) The NHL announces a deal with another city.

So its not our fault there isn't a lot of substance. There is only one party that can give us something substantive to discuss and they aren't doing it.

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02-24-2013, 09:52 AM
  #409
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Well damn dude. The posters here try our best. However substance would consist of one of 3 things:

1) The NHL announces a deal with a lease and an owner with real cash is announced. The only way I can see that is if Glendale accepts one a lot less than an ironclad 20 years. Which they are now willing to do.

2) The NHL announces they are now opening the bidding to owners who want to relo the team.

3) The NHL announces a deal with another city.

So its not our fault there isn't a lot of substance. There is only one party that can give us something substantive to discuss and they aren't doing it.
no no no -- you're confusing substance with news. your post above does have substance even though there are no news, and the converse very much exists too. there's a huge difference between stating an opinion that's very poorly justified, and laying out an (un)educated guess as to what's going to happen.

as for #1 above, there are still a lot of unknowns even with a shorter deal. the AMF itself still needs to be substantial, and there is no public information regarding why Jamison's deal fell through. why didn't he get the money? was the deal too long, the relo penalty too high, the NHL's asking price too high, or are all of these just insignificant details in comparison with the team's expected operating losses even under the new CBA?

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02-24-2013, 11:36 AM
  #410
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So its not our fault there isn't a lot of substance. There is only one party that can give us something substantive to discuss and they aren't doing it.
The latest CoG Agenda isn't providing much substance either. Essentially, this weeks meeting consists of:

Go-ahead to use Bob Murray ad Associates to search for a City Manager

Amend City Code Chapter 2 - Admisitration so that they may recoup lost dollars regarding delinquent accounts/collections (Water, sewer, and sanitation)

RFA to purchase equipment/re-up service contract for the Glendale PD from a competitor of mine

http://www.glendaleaz.com/clerk/agen...das/022613.pdf

That's it... except for, perhaps, the Citizen Comments portion of the meeting.

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02-24-2013, 12:30 PM
  #411
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http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockeynight...38204443&tab=1

They are still showing strong signs that the Coyotes will be there next year

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02-24-2013, 02:19 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by halligan10 View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockeynight...38204443&tab=1

They are still showing strong signs that the Coyotes will be there next year
if you believe this.. then you must believe that the NHL is not planning 2 expensions in the East


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 02-24-2013 at 02:20 PM. Reason: not needed
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02-24-2013, 02:24 PM
  #413
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Any word from the clowns?

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:28 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by AllByDesign View Post
Agreed. I'd love to have a recliner's worth of substance to relax in, but we hardly have enough to construct an ottoman.
Oh? Use your imagination a little bit ABD.....

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:40 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by halligan10 View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockeynight...38204443&tab=1

They are still showing strong signs that the Coyotes will be there next year
What else do you expect? Need to fill the place dude.

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02-24-2013, 02:43 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by halligan10 View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockeynight...38204443&tab=1

They are still showing strong signs that the Coyotes will be there next year
Could the Coyotes will stay in Phoenix for another season, sure I guess... but, the question that needs to be asked though is.... Who is paying the bills?

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:54 PM
  #417
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Huh? We had the technology to send a man to the moon in 1969, but 44 years later we can't keep the ice at the ACC in good enough condition for 2 teams? We can do it for 1 team and 41 home games per year, but not 2 teams and 82 games?

The saddledome in Calgary is home to the Flames, as well as the Calgary hitmen of the WHL, the Calgary Roughnecks lacrosse team, plus concerts and other events. I wonder how they manage that? Maybe the ACC folks need to call them up for some pointers.

The Rexall Place in Edmonton has long been viewed as having one of the best kept ice surfaces in the nhl. Rexall also happens to be the home of the Edmonton oil Kings of the WHL, and the Edmonton Rush of the National Lacrosse League. I'm sure I could find more examples if I looked.
And among the oldest arenas in NHL, that old technology must do some good somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by halligan10 View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockeynight...38204443&tab=1

They are still showing strong signs that the Coyotes will be there next year
Or that moving Coyotes to Seattle without having to redo the realignment.

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02-24-2013, 02:59 PM
  #418
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What else do you expect? Need to fill the place dude.
Can you explain that Qc...not sure I understand you point

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02-24-2013, 03:01 PM
  #419
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The latest CoG Agenda isn't providing much substance either.
Heavy lifting going on behind the scenes perhaps.... no discussion here of Mayor Weiers suggestion (10 days or so back) that the City "splits up" the Arena Management Contract 4 ways.... see, you'd have your Entertainment Manager, your Hockey Arena Manager (the franchisee I s'pose), another handling Catering, Food Services, Cleaning & Maintenance, and then something called an Education Arena Manager. All four overseen by a newly created level of bureaucracy at City Hall. Never mind that it would surely spell utterly & completely the end of anyone ever actually buying the Coyotes, but can you just imagine the dysfunction of such a scheme, along with the increased costs pursuant to creating yet another level of administrative over-site? Only a career politician could possibly come up with such a plan, catering to the special interests of the Council Members themselves. Just unimaginable. Impracticable.

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02-24-2013, 03:16 PM
  #420
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Heavy lifting going on behind the scenes perhaps.... no discussion here of Mayor Weiers suggestion (10 days or so back) that the City "splits up" the Arena Management Contract 4 ways.... see, you'd have your Entertainment Manager, your Hockey Arena Manager (the franchisee I s'pose), another handling Catering, Food Services, Cleaning & Maintenance, and then something called an Education Arena Manager. All four overseen by a newly created level of bureaucracy at City Hall. Never mind that it would surely spell utterly & completely the end of anyone ever actually buying the Coyotes, but can you just imagine the dysfunction of such a scheme, along with the increased costs pursuant to creating yet another level of administrative over-site? Only a career politician could possibly come up with such a plan, catering to the special interests of the Council Members themselves. Just unimaginable. Impracticable.
Just the ownership of misfortune...


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02-24-2013, 03:31 PM
  #421
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Can you explain that Qc...not sure I understand you point
Of course the Coyotes are still there. Were you expecting at this very moment any sign of the league removing the Coyotes?

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02-24-2013, 03:39 PM
  #422
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Of course the Coyotes are still there. Were you expecting at this very moment any sign of the league removing the Coyotes?
I agree. Perhaps why the NHL would talk about it right now if they were planning on moving the Yotes? They could of waited for this info to come out I would think.

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02-24-2013, 03:41 PM
  #423
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Just the ownership of misfortune...
Indeed.... and I know exactly from which barn you got that Wheel of Fortune. American Pickers the lot of em'. Makes me ill. Paying some Farmer Brown Dimes on the Dollar to the point that their being paid to take things of value off the poor Rubes hands who havent got a clue.

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02-24-2013, 03:42 PM
  #424
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I agree. Perhaps why the NHL would talk about it right now if they were planning on moving the Yotes? They could of waited for this info to come out I would think.
I'm sure they have a Plan B if the Coyotes move to Quebec. It probably involves Columbus staying in the west since they have no pull in the league like Detroit.

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02-24-2013, 04:02 PM
  #425
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Indeed.... and I know exactly from which barn you got that Wheel of Fortune. American Pickers the lot of em'. Makes me ill. Paying some Farmer Brown Dimes on the Dollar to the point that their being paid to take things of value off the poor Rubes hands who havent got a clue.
I'm glad to see that there are some people that read all of the various facts and opinions.

The ultimate downfall of all players has been the lack of transparency (e.g., closed council meetings) then open public meetings with a 'take it or leave it' attitude.

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