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Are the Rangers too soft?

View Poll Results: Are the Rangers too soft?
Yes 155 83.78%
No 18 9.73%
Too early to tell 12 6.49%
Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-24-2013, 12:46 AM
  #51
SERE 24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
are these the same people that wanted Rupp gone? That guy cant skate but he could of gooned up. I rather go with what they have now............losing Dubi and Prust hurts toughness but Asham is a tough guy and Bickel sucks but he will fight

I think they can prove everyone wrong, this is still pretty close to the same team as last yr
Losing Rupp and not "gooning up" have nothing to do with being too soft. We play a soft game overall. We're not difficult to play against. Not being soft doesn't mean arbitrarily dropping the gloves and sitting on the bench the other 50 minutes of the night. It means finishing all of your checks, out working the other team, not making it easy to come into our zone or our crease and impart your will on us, not being able to come out of your zone easily because there's a guy breathing down your neck and another guy ready to make you pay if you don't make the right decision. Tough guys and team toughness have nothing to do with one another. We're playing soft, weak hockey right now.

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Old
02-24-2013, 12:50 AM
  #52
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Who else remembers just two years ago when we werent even close to being a contender?

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02-24-2013, 12:54 AM
  #53
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Everyone does... I think right now we're all wondering if we're still that team and last year we were lucky and at our peak. We had a lot of trouble getting past the #8 and #7 and eventually got knocked off by the #6. Hank had a career year, as did most of our defense. Those things don't happen and we're a #7 seed ourselves last year. It seems like that's still where we're at.

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02-24-2013, 02:57 AM
  #54
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Being down 3-0 and having one of our top defensemen boarded and injured, it is unacceptable to allow the other team to walk away with 2 points and no injuries.

This is why injuries happen. The players need to police themselves. If the other team runs your guy and injures him, you MUST injure one of their players. If there was more of a response like that in the league, there would be LESS injuries overall. The reason why players go out and hurt other players is because they know there won't be any retaliation.

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02-24-2013, 03:38 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Hockey Team View Post
Being down 3-0 and having one of our top defensemen boarded and injured, it is unacceptable to allow the other team to walk away with 2 points and no injuries.

This is why injuries happen. The players need to police themselves. If the other team runs your guy and injures him, you MUST injure one of their players. If there was more of a response like that in the league, there would be LESS injuries overall. The reason why players go out and hurt other players is because they know there won't be any retaliation.
This is insane and barbaric.

I'm pretty certain it's a good thing they don't think like this.

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02-24-2013, 03:57 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Everyone does... I think right now we're all wondering if we're still that team and last year we were lucky and at our peak. We had a lot of trouble getting past the #8 and #7 and eventually got knocked off by the #6. Hank had a career year, as did most of our defense. Those things don't happen and we're a #7 seed ourselves last year. It seems like that's still where we're at.
And that #6 we lost to lost to a #8

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02-24-2013, 04:52 AM
  #57
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Yes we are soft. We miss Dubinsky and Prust (especially Prust) lot more than we thought we would. Prust is a guy who hits anything that moves. Dubinsky was a guy who would stick up for a team mate. Dubinsky would end up fighting for what happened to McD tonight.

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02-24-2013, 05:06 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wr50l View Post
Toughness Test:

1. Do you bully the Bruins?
If yes) too tough.
If no) see question 2.

2. Do you stick up for your team, and occasionally get into line brawls with division rivals?
If yes) you're doing it right.
If no) see question 3.

3. Do you get bullied by the softest and smallest team in the NHL from Montreal?
If yes) you are too soft. Do something.
If no) could do better, but at least you aren't an embarrassment to yourselves, your fans and the organization as a whole.
You don't seriously think the Habs are the softest or smallest team in the NHL anymore, do you?

Under Jacques Martin they played to the Power Play and their rep grew to being soft/divers/whatever Broons fans would think to say. After Jacques they were tough but lost. Now under Therrien they're even tougher and don't lose as much.

For the record, as a fan who had to deal with all the softness jokes and insecurities, formulating or getting a passing/possession/scoring game is leagues more important to toughness. You get tough when you can risk losing a penalty call, which means when you can spare the odd goal against because you're sure you can score. The Rangers are in a slump, it's not toughness that's gonna score goals.

Dunno if it's Torts or who's to blame.

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Old
02-24-2013, 05:21 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Losing Rupp and not "gooning up" have nothing to do with being too soft. We play a soft game overall. We're not difficult to play against. Not being soft doesn't mean arbitrarily dropping the gloves and sitting on the bench the other 50 minutes of the night. It means finishing all of your checks, out working the other team, not making it easy to come into our zone or our crease and impart your will on us, not being able to come out of your zone easily because there's a guy breathing down your neck and another guy ready to make you pay if you don't make the right decision. Tough guys and team toughness have nothing to do with one another. We're playing soft, weak hockey right now.
Very well said. There's a huge difference between fighters/goons and team toughness. That inner fire is missing.

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Old
02-24-2013, 05:51 AM
  #60
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Wow! 89% for "yes".

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Old
02-24-2013, 06:43 AM
  #61
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Jumbo Joe agrees.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhNLt4tzGh0

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Old
02-24-2013, 08:09 AM
  #62
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Not sure what the real scoop behind closed doors is, but from an outsiders point of view these guys just don't have each others backs.


When you look up and down the roster is appears you have team first guys. It appears this is a good group. No real negative influences, no guys out partying and sleeping it off in a sewer system...No guys showing up in the papers with DWI's or domestic abuse issues. No arrests....So what really gives in this room?


Two seasons ago Gaborik got bet up by Carcillo. Girardi was right there. He had zero reaction. One teams tough guy giving to the other teams top goal scorer. I had all time high levels of disgust that moment. Last night I kept thinking the same thing. Who's going to answer the bell?

Specifically...Why didn't Bickel and Mashinter get put out next shift? Why have them if you not going to use them? Had to be one of two reasons.
1) They don't have each others backs
2) Torts is instructing them specifically not to drop the mitts.


Lastly...Brian Boyle. A guy I wanted to see in the Rangers top 6. A guy I wanted to see move to the wing and get more of a role with this club. A guy that I've defended as a player...I'm new completely done with.

Out of hand game. Marty get run. Intentional or not, after the McDonough hit you now have to 100% respond. So he goes over as says..."Hey man, don't shove Marty" and wait for the officials to come in between them.

Regarding Boyle this is now the 2nd time that he has failed to act on a play while on the ice. Orpiks hit on rookie and top prospect on the team Chris Kreider.Boyler gazed over to the refs on that one..."Hey man, you gonna call that?"

Rangers have a lot of the right pieces to this puzzle. I'm not on the glass is half empty side of things. I am on the side that feels that this club needs gamers, and tougher players added in the top 6 as well on the defense. But not just tough players. Guys that will put team first always. Guys that you don't need to look down the bench at to see if they are going to jump out there and do the deed. It's the guys that you know are going to be out there next shift looking to change it up.


Last edited by Lion Hound: 02-24-2013 at 09:32 AM.
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Old
02-24-2013, 08:18 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
I'm so unhappy with what I saw tonight.

I believe in old-school hockey, somebody hurts you bad, you hurt them back even worse.
That's what Pacioretty did.

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Old
02-24-2013, 08:23 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Calad View Post
And that #6 we lost to lost to a #8
The kings dominated every round of the post season. Yea they were a #8 which you can use to try and invalidate my point but we had trouble and barely made it out of each round. We didn't dominate anyone and needed 7 games and lots of OT to get where we did. All I'm saying is it was always possible that last year was an aligning of the stars and that we were never as good as the one season got us all to believe. It's feeling more and more like the case.

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02-24-2013, 08:34 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Tonight they were.
And the game before that, and the game before that, and the game before that...

I think it would be worth discussing or pointing out the possibility that we may not be have been in the situation we are right now in regards to injuries, if we weren't so OK with other teams having a field day on our stars.

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02-24-2013, 09:30 AM
  #66
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Sean Avery !!!

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02-24-2013, 09:41 AM
  #67
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Sean Avery !!!
I wish the censor filter would pick up this word as obscene.

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Old
02-24-2013, 09:49 AM
  #68
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It's not about goons gooning it up. It's about playing an overall tough game. Physicallity. The Rangers are sorely lacking that right now. They're folding like a house of cards.

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02-24-2013, 10:05 AM
  #69
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Right now, they're too everything.

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02-24-2013, 10:11 AM
  #70
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They aren't as tough to play against as they were last year. Going into the season, I had a bad feeling this would happen.

Bluenote brings up a good point, Sather has never really been too adept at addressing team toughness. Acquiring the John Scotts of the league doesn't really address that need appropriately.

But I thought last season's team was probably one of the best in terms of team toughness under Sather's tenure, and we lost many of those players that brought that element.

Dubi and Prust were not adequately replaced, and I wish there was a way in which we could have kept at least one of them. Both great locker room guys, never hesitated to stand up for a teammate, and were willing to sacrifice the body. Feds, even though he looked to be declining last year, had some sandpaper and grit in his game. Even Arty engaged in boardplay and got involved in the forecheck.

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02-24-2013, 10:20 AM
  #71
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This is absurd. No team that blocks as many shots as we do is "soft."

Two nights ago Malkin was put into the boards on a very similar play and there was no throw down brawl between the Penguins players on the ice and the Panthers. The notion that there's an eye-for-an-eye every time someone breathes on you wrong is crazy, especially in the new NHL where staring at someone the wrong way can get you a penalty. When McDonagh went down, we drew a penalty. If someone takes a run at Pacioretty, we lose the PP, and maybe even end up on the short end if a misconduct is handed out. That's sloppy and selfish play.

Boyle stood up for Biron, to me that was all that needed to be done.

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02-24-2013, 10:21 AM
  #72
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While I agree the Rangers need a bit more toughness the best way to prevent cheap shots is a good power play. As long as the Rangers power play is bad teams are going to take liberties. Why wouldn't a team take a cheap shots? What punishment are they going to get?

What i find amazing is the sudden love for Dubinsky. It wasn't long ago some of the same posters that are saying how much we miss Dubinsky were telling us how selfish he was for holding out. How he wasn't a "team" player, how overrated he was, how he only was a good Ranger because of Jagr. Some of those posts were just this week.

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Old
02-24-2013, 10:24 AM
  #73
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Malkin's hit was NOTHING like McD's. Gudbranson just pushed Malkin in open ice and Malkin lost an edge an went hard into the boards. Very unfortunate for him, but that play happens 100X a game.

Pacioretty blatantly boarded McD while jumping in the process. How there was no retaliation from us is sickening. He's your best skater. Do something to make it known that it's not OK to board him like that. Not like they were going to score on the Flowerplay anyway.

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Old
02-24-2013, 10:24 AM
  #74
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Miss Prust and Rupp for sure but its funny how guys like Bickel, Asham, Mash and Rupp (when he was here) continue to play when they supply no spark to the team in anyway. When we were healthy id rather play rookies instead of the fighters. It all goes out the window now though with the injuries. Play whoevers healtly

Team toughness was displayed differently last season, in a Rangers way that worked for the team. Its not always about fighting but they had the ability to. Losing prust was a huge hit because he could actually play

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02-24-2013, 11:39 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjs252 View Post
This is absurd. No team that blocks as many shots as we do is "soft."

Two nights ago Malkin was put into the boards on a very similar play and there was no throw down brawl between the Penguins players on the ice and the Panthers. The notion that there's an eye-for-an-eye every time someone breathes on you wrong is crazy, especially in the new NHL where staring at someone the wrong way can get you a penalty. When McDonagh went down, we drew a penalty. If someone takes a run at Pacioretty, we lose the PP, and maybe even end up on the short end if a misconduct is handed out. That's sloppy and selfish play.

Boyle stood up for Biron, to me that was all that needed to be done.
Malking was concussed because he lost an edge near the boards. McD is likely concussed because someone hit him up high from behind into the boards. Not the same at all. There's a huge, huge difference between breathing on a player wrong and hitting someone from behind and causing them serious injury. I'd rather someone take the penalty there 100/100 times, especially on a team that is already missing a few important players and hasn't looking terribly cohesive yet. Standing up for each other like that is how you build a team that's hard to play against.

Boyle didn't stand up for Biron at all, he skated over and talked a little bit. Drop the gloves, throw some punches, ESPECIALLY after nobody responded to the hit on McD.

I'm not for gooning it up night in and night out but sometimes a team needs to lose its cool in order to establish that everyone has everyone else's backs. Last night was one of those games.

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