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Jets interested in O'Reilly? UPDATE: CGY Offer sheet COL matches

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Old
02-23-2013, 11:53 PM
  #226
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First thing they teach you in pee wee hockey is that assists are just as good as goals.

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02-23-2013, 11:54 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
i can honestly say that i have no idea what Chevy values and what he does not....he is an enigma to me....

i clearly value Little more than others here....i wish his name was gigantor or something like that.....it would help his image.


in my opinion, a team that cant score should think hard about trading a 24-30 goal scorer for a player who has never been a goal scorer at any level....there is not much evidence to support that o'reily will ever be more than a 50 point guy....he brings other things obviously but can we afford to give up goals?
Having our first, three (?) second rounders and two third rounders, I'm sure we'll be drafting some offensive talent to help out in a few years. Wouldn't be impossible to find a serviceable top six winger through UFA. Would probably have to give up a second to get ROR, but that's still 5 picks in the first three rounds. Plus whatever we can get for Antro at the deadline..

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02-23-2013, 11:55 PM
  #228
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The more I think about this, the more I am not that keen on ROR. I just do not trust his ability to produce points. Even if we acquire him, it will cost us assets, and we still will not have a #1, big point producing centre. Looking at the division we are likely to end up in, being able to put pucks in the back of the net is going to be at an absolute premium. Thus, if we are going to be dealing good assets, what we get in return has to be able to amp up our offensive production. I just do not see ROR doing that in any appreciable way. I would much rather acquire a centre who is far less responsible defensively, but does cruel things in the offensive zone. We have Burmistrov who is excellent defensively from the dot, we have Scheifele who is capable in his own zone and we already have Little who is a good two-way player. What does ROR add, besides a modest upgrade on Bryan Little, with perhaps even less goal scoring touch? A little sand-paper sure, but our issue is not sandpaper between Kane and whomever, or Ladd and Wheeler.

When I look at the quality top-line pivots (excluding the superstars) in the NHL, I just cannot place ROR near that group. Sure, I'd happily sell Little and Trouba or our first rounder and even more to LA for Anze Kopitar, but I certainly would never consider it in a million years for Mike Richards. The way I look at, ROR is a Mike Richards, not an Anze Kopitar. ROR is a nice piece, but not one that I would be overly interested in paying a hefty price for.

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02-24-2013, 12:17 AM
  #229
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I would personally prefer to deal Little and not Burmi. Burmi will end up ROR player type with little bit more offensive upside imho. I would love to have 2 awesome defensively centers who play with intensity, grit and constantly delivering hits. We would have our number #2,3 centers for 5-6 years and our #1 and #2 shut-down centers. However I wouldn't pull a triger on ROR for Little+Trouba. I'm 100% sure this will be huge over-payment

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02-24-2013, 01:02 AM
  #230
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Has anyone (who considers O'Reilly some potential savior for the Jets top-6) thought about the character issues he brings? Sure he's known as a hard worker on the ice but he has also held out for more than 1/3 of the season now and that clearly trumps his on-ice performance. How do we know he'd be happy as a Jet and wouldn't just do the same thing here? Why would the Jets be any more willing to give him a big contract or guarantee he'd be used in an offensive role, especially for all the talk of giving up Burmistrov?

I fear he's being severely overrated and overpriced, both in terms of character and on-ice ability.

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02-24-2013, 01:06 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
First thing they teach you in pee wee hockey is that assists are just as good as goals.
second thing they teach you is that you don't get assists if you cant score goals.


@bhay1987....second and third round picks are crap shoots at the very best...and if they do become anything, they are at least 5 years away.....all those picks we have this year, other than our first rounder, we will be lucky if even one goes on to play in the NHL at all.

only one in three (1/3) second round picks ever play in the NHL....


http://oilersnation.com/2011/2/25/va...ng-draft-picks

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02-24-2013, 04:54 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Aries56 View Post
I think Little + Prospect or Pick for RoR is pretty fair value. Look back at the Turris trade (the last time a RFA wouldn't sign), they got David Rundblad and a 2nd back.

The situation is different, but Turris was a third overall pick and has huge offensive upside.

A player loses a lot of value when they're on the trading block and not signed and from what I've read Avs fans have might be over stating RoR's value a bit.
(Btw I was an Avs fan before the Jets came back, so I've seen a lot of RoR.)
Ummmm, not at all comparable. Turris was coming off a season in which he put up 25 points in 65 games. At that point in time Turris was already being mentioned as a bust and there were significant concerns whether he'd ever be an effective NHLer due to his apparent inability to add mass to his frame.

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02-24-2013, 05:03 AM
  #233
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In all honesty, it seems like this thread is at the point where it's really about Jets fans convincing other Jets fans that a) O'Reilly isn't that good of a player and b) we should be able to get him for cheap. Which is great and all, but it's a waste of time, energy, and space because the consensus of this board has absolutely zero impact on what will happen in reality.

Three years from now people will still be coming back to this thread and wondering what on earth were people thinking.

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02-24-2013, 05:21 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by almostawake View Post
In all honesty, it seems like this thread is at the point where it's really about Jets fans convincing other Jets fans that a) O'Reilly isn't that good of a player and b) we should be able to get him for cheap. Which is great and all, but it's a waste of time, energy, and space because the consensus of this board has absolutely zero impact on what will happen in reality.

Three years from now people will still be coming back to this thread and wondering what on earth were people thinking.
very valid point but the bolded could probably be said about 100% of the activity on this board. we are like the kid in the back seat in the old days that had a steering wheel attached to his car seat......we may think we are steering the car but really that wheel is just for fun thank god!!

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02-24-2013, 08:48 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Boreal View Post
The more I think about this, the more I am not that keen on ROR. I just do not trust his ability to produce points. Even if we acquire him, it will cost us assets, and we still will not have a #1, big point producing centre. Looking at the division we are likely to end up in, being able to put pucks in the back of the net is going to be at an absolute premium. Thus, if we are going to be dealing good assets, what we get in return has to be able to amp up our offensive production. I just do not see ROR doing that in any appreciable way. I would much rather acquire a centre who is far less responsible defensively, but does cruel things in the offensive zone. We have Burmistrov who is excellent defensively from the dot, we have Scheifele who is capable in his own zone and we already have Little who is a good two-way player. What does ROR add, besides a modest upgrade on Bryan Little, with perhaps even less goal scoring touch? A little sand-paper sure, but our issue is not sandpaper between Kane and whomever, or Ladd and Wheeler.

When I look at the quality top-line pivots (excluding the superstars) in the NHL, I just cannot place ROR near that group. Sure, I'd happily sell Little and Trouba or our first rounder and even more to LA for Anze Kopitar, but I certainly would never consider it in a million years for Mike Richards. The way I look at, ROR is a Mike Richards, not an Anze Kopitar. ROR is a nice piece, but not one that I would be overly interested in paying a hefty price for.
On a team with Pronger and a lot of depth I'll admit, but Mike Richards was the top center on a Philly team that went to the finals. And the second line all situations center on the Kings last year.

I like Little, he's a decent producer all around. But there's something about the work ethic, increased production and youth of ROR that has me drawn to him.

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02-24-2013, 09:20 AM
  #236
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Would TNSE even want a kid that has not really proved too much and is willing to hold a gun to his teams head and sit out???? Doesn't seem like a TNSE kinda guy to me?????

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02-24-2013, 09:46 AM
  #237
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I'd like to propose something which I think would take us sideways at the moment but I believe would help us a great deal over time.

I'd like to say I prefer a tough, hard to play against defence as opposed to our current defence which has the ability to put up lots of points but is not very tough to play against.

Step 1: Trade Brian Little to Phoenix for Rostislav Klesla and Branden Gormley.

I think we would probably have to add a bit to this but I don't think it would be anything huge.

Step 2: Trade Tobias Enstrom to Colorado for Ryan O'Rielly and Duncan Siemens.

They would probably also have to add a high pick.

What this does is it upgrades our top six somewhat as our current roster would change from Brian Little to Ryan O'Rielly. It would downgrade our offensive production from our defence but it would make it alot bigger and tougher.

The kicker is we would pick up two very high end defensive prospects. In a few years we could have a top four of:

Gormley - Bogo
Siemens - Trouba

I understand there are problems with this. Klesla does get injured and Gormley isn't producing as expected this year in the A.

I do know that Phoenix is looking for young offensive help and they have lots of defensive assets. I also know Colorado's defense is pretty suspect. In principle they should both have interest in these trades.

Thoughts?

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02-24-2013, 11:37 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Hansen Brother View Post
I'd like to propose something which I think would take us sideways at the moment but I believe would help us a great deal over time.

I'd like to say I prefer a tough, hard to play against defence as opposed to our current defence which has the ability to put up lots of points but is not very tough to play against.

Step 1: Trade Brian Little to Phoenix for Rostislav Klesla and Branden Gormley.

I think we would probably have to add a bit to this but I don't think it would be anything huge.

Step 2: Trade Tobias Enstrom to Colorado for Ryan O'Rielly and Duncan Siemens.

They would probably also have to add a high pick.

What this does is it upgrades our top six somewhat as our current roster would change from Brian Little to Ryan O'Rielly. It would downgrade our offensive production from our defence but it would make it alot bigger and tougher.

The kicker is we would pick up two very high end defensive prospects. In a few years we could have a top four of:

Gormley - Bogo
Siemens - Trouba

I understand there are problems with this. Klesla does get injured and Gormley isn't producing as expected this year in the A.

I do know that Phoenix is looking for young offensive help and they have lots of defensive assets. I also know Colorado's defense is pretty suspect. In principle they should both have interest in these trades.

Thoughts?
I think they are both moves that would help us a lot. But I think the value in both cases is tilted too far towards us. Never thought about Gormley before but that could have some merit to it... We'd probably be in tough to get anything extra for Little besides Gormley though, he was a pretty high pick. Definitely not getting Klesla off them as well. Gormley and Trouba in theory sounds like a pretty good pairing 2-4 years down the road.

Enstrom for ROR + Siemens could be a good deal for us but I`m not sure Colorado has any reason to give up Siemens. They`re already having to cut bait with a 21 year old 2nd line center...Plus Enstrom has a NMC if I recall.

If all this Sherman wanting Little stuff has legs to it, that`s the best route to go IMO. Little + 2nd seems fair for a guy they have to get rid of at some point...

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02-24-2013, 12:04 PM
  #239
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I think they are both moves that would help us a lot. But I think the value in both cases is tilted too far towards us. Never thought about Gormley before but that could have some merit to it... We'd probably be in tough to get anything extra for Little besides Gormley though, he was a pretty high pick. Definitely not getting Klesla off them as well. Gormley and Trouba in theory sounds like a pretty good pairing 2-4 years down the road.

Enstrom for ROR + Siemens could be a good deal for us but I`m not sure Colorado has any reason to give up Siemens. They`re already having to cut bait with a 21 year old 2nd line center...Plus Enstrom has a NMC if I recall.

If all this Sherman wanting Little stuff has legs to it, that`s the best route to go IMO. Little + 2nd seems fair for a guy they have to get rid of at some point...
Why on earth would we add to Little? The guy is a proven 20goal guy that has a solid two way game and has great versatility.

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02-24-2013, 12:07 PM
  #240
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Ummmm, not at all comparable. Turris was coming off a season in which he put up 25 points in 65 games. At that point in time Turris was already being mentioned as a bust and there were significant concerns whether he'd ever be an effective NHLer due to his apparent inability to add mass to his frame.
That's why I said the situation is different, it was a vague comparison but the value for each player would be in the same ballpark.
Just because a player hasn't reached their potential yet, doesn't mean they're gonna be given away.

He put up 25 points in 65 games but he was also playing an average of 11 minutes a game that year.

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02-24-2013, 12:10 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by almostawake View Post
In all honesty, it seems like this thread is at the point where it's really about Jets fans convincing other Jets fans that a) O'Reilly isn't that good of a player and b) we should be able to get him for cheap. Which is great and all, but it's a waste of time, energy, and space because the consensus of this board has absolutely zero impact on what will happen in reality.

Three years from now people will still be coming back to this thread and wondering what on earth were people thinking.
Possibly. But maybe some of us also don't want to back up the truck and overpay for him. Not trying to be cheap, just don't want to see us get fleeced.

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02-24-2013, 12:48 PM
  #242
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Why on earth would we add to Little? The guy is a proven 20goal guy that has a solid two way game and has great versatility.
If you think Little has a great two way game and great versatility, wait until you see O`Reilly. Not a franchise changer on his own but he will be such a key piece to whoever`s team gets him.

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02-24-2013, 12:49 PM
  #243
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ROR is the real deal! Don't understand how he ever fell to be a 2nd round pick, except only maybe because of his butt in parents? He no doubt would be in our top 6 forwards and possibly our top center for years to come. I would not hesitate to send Burmi for him straight up and I'm not convinced they would settle for that alone. I think we would need to also give out a draft pick, 3rd or 4th round. Would definitely give them Enstrom, though there again, another draft pick at least would be in order. Judging from what I've read in other threads though I highly doubt we end up with him as they are asking for way more than what I suggested here for him and I don't think Chevy is ready or desperate enough as some of the NYR, PHI, of the world that consistently pay out too much for their trades.

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02-24-2013, 01:17 PM
  #244
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I hate when people assume that a player has a bad attitude. How do we know how much of this holdout is ROR, how much is a possessive father and how much is his agent?

I'm not saying anything positive or negative about ROR, but from what I read about the kid he has mad work ethic, is a passionate hockey player and future captain material. That to me says A LOT.

Just like Kane. Haters be hatin', but all the kid does is score goals, and we need that in a bad way.

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02-24-2013, 01:17 PM
  #245
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Chevaldayoff to me seems very canny and prudent.
If the Jets' trade for ROR I guarantee that COL fans won't be super happy.

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02-24-2013, 01:34 PM
  #246
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I hate when people assume that a player has a bad attitude. How do we know how much of this holdout is ROR, how much is a possessive father and how much is his agent?

I'm not saying anything positive or negative about ROR, but from what I read about the kid he has mad work ethic, is a passionate hockey player and future captain material. That to me says A LOT.

Just like Kane. Haters be hatin', but all the kid does is score goals, and we need that in a bad way.
Not saying I believe any of the bad attitude talk, but isn't a possessive father and an agent who may be pulling the strings red flags regardless of the player's attitude?

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02-24-2013, 01:35 PM
  #247
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Chevaldayoff to me seems very canny and prudent.
If the Jets' trade for ROR I guarantee that COL fans won't be super happy.
It isn't just if the Jets trade for him. It's WHEN he is dealt, we're all going to be super pissed.

I've already resigned myself to be disappointed with the return because they won't be Ryan O'Reilly. Will we get a good player or two? It's possible, but it's extremely unlikely that anyone we get in return, from any team, will have what makes O'Reilly unique.

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02-24-2013, 01:37 PM
  #248
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Not saying I believe any of the bad attitude talk, but isn't a possessive father and an agent who may be pulling the strings red flags regardless of the player's attitude?
I guess. However when the player is signed the agent and father become irrelevant (till next contract negotiations)

If we trade for and sign a guy who is captain material on the ice, leads the team and earns his dollars, all of the rest is the GM's problem. That's why he gets paid

PS I hope that alignment goes through. You will be able to see more Jets games than any of us non-seasons tickets holders

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02-24-2013, 01:44 PM
  #249
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Just to be clear:

Is there actually any clear saying that the Jets target ROR or are at least interested in him?

And yes, I saw the link on the first page but that's nothing that would make us speak about trade proposals for 10 pages.... or does it?

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02-24-2013, 01:48 PM
  #250
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Just to be clear:

Is there actually any clear saying that the Jets target ROR or are at least interested in him?

And yes, I saw the link on the first page but that's nothing that would make us speak about trade proposals for 10 pages.... or does it?
There is someone on the Colorado boards who is known to posters and mods there to be connected to ROR and other Avs. He said that the Jets are very interested. It was suggested that the Jets and ROR's agent were talking numbers (sorry I'm paraphrasing and going from memory here so this might not be totally accurate). Finally, the Avalanche GM Sherman is said to be high on Little and may have been working on a deal for him last year, so that is why Little's name is being suggested as the main piece going back.

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