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HNIC shows new potential alignment with 16 teams in "east" groupings

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02-24-2013, 04:02 AM
  #76
guyincognito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Actually Columbus should be in the same division as Pittsburgh given their close distance.

Florida and Tampa Bay were put with the northeast teams because there are a good number of canadian who winter in florida...thus giving more fan draw to games there.
That's the only tie that they have to the division. That they're "close" to Pittsburgh.
The Caps have history with the Pens, Canes and the old Patrick Division teams. Carolina at least has history with the Caps and the Devils, although everyone else is probably "meh" about that.

It's a real weak reason to move them when they have more of a history with the Hawks, Blues, Predators.

As for Florida and Tampa, that's nice that they make more money on their road draws, but they are DOA in that division. Everyone there is going to throw alot of money around. Ottawa is probably their closest competitor and I'm sure Ottawa will outspend them too.

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02-24-2013, 04:11 AM
  #77
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On the whole, I like this realignment. I discussed 8xEast 7xWest in the earlier thread, though my alignment there had the Florida teams with Dallas/etc and Chicago + the Peg or Minnesota with Detroit/Toronto/etc.

I think TBL and FLA work in that divison, though. It's very possible that they were 2/4 teams that voted against the alignment last time around, and its also possible Toronto/Montreal were the other 2. Detroit is given to that division to placate all 4 of those teams and I think that works; that's a massive pickup for the other O6 teams, and also a massive pickup in terms of viewership and ticket prices for the FLA teams. Meanwhile, Detroit wins that room for obvious reasons. Rewarded with 2392032002x better ratings vs. the 15 years they helped the NHL by staying with meh markets.

Columbus is an obvious big winner as well. Hopefully the TV viewership and possible ticket buyers they'll get from all those wealthy NE US teams will help them along.

Chicago will miss Detroit, but they're a good team again. Also, even though they lose 4x games of Detroit, they're picking up 1x game each against NYR, Boston, Toronto, Montreal, Philly, Pittsburgh... and with only having 1 team out of their time zone in division (Colorado) I think they still come out ahead.

The big losers are probably Nashville and St. Louis, but I don't see them as having much power. They'll either like it for their own reasons or be told to deal with it. It shouldn't be Detroit's responsibility to help prop them up. As a Detroit fan, I won't miss the grinding, weardown play of the former and 2-3 decades of cheapshot artistry from the latter.

I think Colorado comes out ahead with the potential matchups. I also really like the format as someone living in Colorado. I get to see 1 home game with the Bolts and Wings each year, and then I also get to see a lot more Chicago, and get to root against other teams I like to root against, like the Blues. Avs fans better get used to having more injuries, though.

It's a big win for everything west of Colorado, so I don't think too much comment is needed there. They get to play teams within their own time zones more and get to play the marquee teams of the east more.

NBC/the US media powers should also be quite happy with the 2 east divisions.

As for future expansion to QC, we'll see who gets moved or how things get shuffled to facilitate that--easy pick is Columbus moving back to the central. The other expansion team will be somewhere in the US west of the Mississippi... KC, Houston, or Seattle if the 'Yotes aren't relo'd to Seattle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
Everyone there is going to throw alot of money around. Ottawa is probably their closest competitor and I'm sure Ottawa will outspend them too.
Tampa with their present sort of roster is also going to be a "throw lots of money around" team--see their profits when they were successful previously, before awful ownership. Having extra profits from Detroit and the local canadians is going to make that even easier.

Florida will either benefit from the extra money they get from the divisional matchups or eventually relocate. If they can't at least be financially successful with that division, there probably isn't much going for them in the future. I hope that's not the case.

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02-24-2013, 05:47 AM
  #78
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I like it. The Atlantic Division stays the same. We get Washington back into the Patrick Division. Add Carolina and Columbus.

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02-24-2013, 07:21 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Hawks get bent over, Wings get everything they want. They get less travel, better time zone, weaker competition and 3 other original six teams in their conference. Hawks lose a main rival and are the only original 6 team left in the leftover conferences. I still can't believe that the Wings get to escape the Blues and Hawks grasps at this point in time. It would've been fun dominating the division for the next 10 years and leaving the Wings in the dust but now it looks like Blues/Hawks is the only real rivalry in the entire conference.

The sad part is that if the Wings were in the Blues and Hawks conference then basically all their problems would be solved anyways. Wasn't that the reason we went to this stupid 4 conference format anyways? To make the Wings happy by cutting travel and no more 10PM starts but to still keep them in the "Western Conference"?
Yes man, it's all one big conspiracy to make Red Wings happy while screwing Chicago.

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02-24-2013, 07:56 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Actually Columbus should be in the same division as Pittsburgh given their close distance.

Florida and Tampa Bay were put with the northeast teams because there are a good number of canadian who winter in florida...thus giving more fan draw to games there.
Pittsburgh should also be with Buffalo, Detroit, & Toronto given that those cities are closer to Pittsburgh than Philly is but that won't happen since Philly apparently owns the league.

That logic is flawed, NY'ers also go to Florida as well just look at Yankee-Rays games a good 70% of them are NY fans/transplants. You could even say that with the other southern teams thanks to the ACC conference in the NCAA with Carolina, DC, & Miami.

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02-24-2013, 08:03 AM
  #81
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I like it ... except for how inflexible it is regarding relocation and expansion in the East. Sure, teams can be reshuffled later, but that seems to be an inelegant solution. As for playoffs, the OP link mentions a "Wild Card scenario" ... which might make sense if they allow the top three in each division to qualify for the playoffs and leave the remaining two as wild cards. The two division winners play the wild card teams, second place plays third ... and the divisional playoff format is mostly maintained.

This would make for an exciting new look, for sure.

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02-24-2013, 08:34 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildthing202 View Post
Pittsburgh should also be with Buffalo, Detroit, & Toronto given that those cities are closer to Pittsburgh than Philly is but that won't happen since Philly apparently owns the league.
It won't happen because Penguins/Flyers is the hottest rivalry in the league right now. That's what the playoffs do. The Penguins also didn't want to lose the Flyers after fighting their entire existence to have them be a rival, they didn't want to lose the Flyers either. And neither team wanted to lose the Rangers.

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02-24-2013, 08:48 AM
  #83
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I think I am going to post this or something like it every 2 or 3 pages:

Bettman is a lawyer. He does not like anyone guessing anything about his business. He likes to know everything and control everything, and he does that by keeping every thing dark for everyone else, and punishing those who get in his way. Therefore, it is my conclusion that this alignment says nothing about the PHX situation.

Also, the only reason I can see for this proposal is that all ETZ teams are grouped together, and that will be better for TV. In other words, as we have known, $$$$ is making all the decisions.

That is why many feel this is a league with professional players, but it's not a professional league....

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02-24-2013, 08:51 AM
  #84
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The NHL has to have some sort-of idea about what is going to happen to the Coyotes - that being said, the Coyotes must be staying west, or contracting.

I cannot fathom the NHL would go through all of this trouble solving realignment with the NHLPA, shuffling teams around, giving Columbus and Detroit what they finally deserve - then move Phoenix to Quebec, and shuffle teams again after 1 year - that makes no sense. Especially if they moved Columbus or Detroit to Conf #3 - although not as bad as being with the Pacific coast teams, it's still being moved west again.

I need to know what's happening to the Coyotes!

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02-24-2013, 08:59 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Joey Jr Shabadoo View Post
The NHL has to have some sort-of idea about what is going to happen to the Coyotes - that being said, the Coyotes must be staying west, or contracting.

I cannot fathom the NHL would go through all of this trouble solving realignment with the NHLPA, shuffling teams around, giving Columbus and Detroit what they finally deserve - then move Phoenix to Quebec, and shuffle teams again after 1 year - that makes no sense. Especially if they moved Columbus or Detroit to Conf #3 - although not as bad as being with the Pacific coast teams, it's still being moved west again.

I need to know what's happening to the Coyotes!
JJS - My conclusion about all this is that, in your words, "THAT MAKES NO SENSE." As you well know, nothing about the Coyotes makes any sense. It is my belief, and that's all any of us have right now in Coyoteland (the mythical place where they wonder about the future of the Coyotes), belief. Anyway, it's my belief that Bettman isn't even telling the BoG what he knows. It's my belief that he thinks it would be egg on his face to leave PHX, so he holds on for all he can. I think he is hoping someone can negotiate a shorter term lease with CoG and keep the team there.

My only question really is this: If PHX is still not determined, why create realignment? It would seem better to wait a year or 2, and do it after PHX is settled.
Likewise, if PHX is settled, why not wait on realignment until you can make a PHX announcement?

So, my conclusion is: Bettman wants it to look like PHX is stable, nothing wrong, no issues. So, he ignores it. "PHX is not an issue. The Coyotes are as stable a market as any in the league. We need to realign because of Winnipeg. This is how we will do it...."

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02-24-2013, 09:01 AM
  #86
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Also, I have a question about this realignment:

Remember last time - 16 months ago. HNIC had a realignment that they showed the world. It was not what the NHL eventually announced. Could the same happen now?

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02-24-2013, 09:39 AM
  #87
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They really want this 4 conference ******** don't they?

Why can't they be divisions?

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02-24-2013, 09:40 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
Also, I have a question about this realignment:

Remember last time - 16 months ago. HNIC had a realignment that they showed the world. It was not what the NHL eventually announced. Could the same happen now?
What I keep laughing to myself about, MNN, and I think you understand this, is the growing number of people here giving reason how this alignment "makes sense", and then I look back at the alignment proposed 14 months and all the people saying that that alignment made sense. A lot of people just seem willing to go with whatever is offered up, as long as it doesn't effect their team in some way they preceive as negative. Now here we've primarily got Hawks, Blues, and Predators fans complaining; but if their team wasn't "negatively" effected and instead it were some other teams, they'd be giving the alignment praise.

People justifying last year's alignment with the Quebec City expansion/relocation explanation; now people justifying this one with the Seattle expansion/relocation explanation. And those Markham people just willing to throw their hoped for team into whatever Division is available... LOL... If there's a vacancy available in the Atlantic,... oh, it's because Toronto2 will go there; if there's a vacancy available in the Central,... oh, it's because Toronto2 will go there.

There are few explanations for these alignment proposals, other than they're being the only ones the League thinks it can get passed with enough votes, or now also without the PA objecting. And any explanations that do eventually come along, they're afterthoughts, or secondary, or the League finding ways to justify what they did.

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02-24-2013, 10:00 AM
  #89
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It was the western conferences people *****ing the most about the last realignment proposal, because of the 7 v 8 imbalance. I loved the old idea, and love this idea. The first two rounds of the playoffs will be sick, and the regular season will be much more exciting. Plus, teams will make it, or miss out, on the playoffs against other teams who essentially play the same exact schedule, something that does not occur today.

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02-24-2013, 10:02 AM
  #90
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Yes man, it's all one big conspiracy to make Red Wings happy while screwing Chicago.
Where did he ever say it was a conspiracy?

The facts are all there, though. Detroit pissed and moaned for years, and finally got their way.

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02-24-2013, 10:15 AM
  #91
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I think people spend too much time talking about fairness and not enough time looking at finances. At the end of the day, the NHL is a business and this realignment makes sense from a financial perspective as a business decision.

Considering the economic environment in most places, it's hard to increase ticket prices much more to grow gate revenue which has traditionally been more important to the NHL than other major sports leagues. Having maximized that area for growth, they need to look at how to increase the value of their media exposure to raise income.

I think this realignment does this because more games in time zone means more eyes to screens and more money from advertising. Sports, in general, are becoming a greater focus for advertisers as other programs are often recorded and watched later, whereas people stay tuned to these contests.

So, while travel and other considerations are there, I think all the franchises would consider those reasonable costs of business if this leads to larger media contracts. And from that perspective, it's not surprising that the Flyers, and NBC, would be major contributors in pushing this, which I think they are.

That said, I think it might be very good for the league, because they are making the NHL more highly profiled, and I think the alignment will help a few markets and create more tv friendly matchups, especially as the Wings have always been a great draw as are some of the EC teams.

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02-24-2013, 10:20 AM
  #92
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I don't see how the PA is going to approve this move, not if they want to allow Markham & QC in the league through expansion, you know more expansion fees & larger tv rights for that underserved market (Ontario/Toronto)

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02-24-2013, 10:23 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abstrusezincate View Post
I think people spend too much time talking about fairness and not enough time looking at finances. At the end of the day, the NHL is a business and this realignment makes sense from a financial perspective as a business decision.
You seem to be suggesting that "fairness" isn't important to the viewing audience either. In fact it may be true.

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I don't see how the PA is going to approve this move, not if they want to allow Markham & QC in the league through expansion, you know more expansion fees & larger tv rights for that underserved market (Ontario/Toronto)
Unfortunately, I would suspect that the PA already agreed to this. But actually, that's a good point though. Who did agree to this, and who now needs to vote to accept it?? I've been of the impression that a group of owners have been in talks with the PA and that this is what they came up with; and that now the owners need to vote on as a whole group to see if it will be accepted. Perhaps I have it backwards.

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02-24-2013, 10:33 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
I disagree with this entirely.

The fact that the eastern conferences had the 7 teams and the leaders for expansion franchises were in the east...that would have led itself to a natural fix. This now makes a jumbled mess where Columbus and Detroit may wind up moving to a different conference very shortly after starting anew in this new system (and the trickle-down effect that would probably kick Colorado to another conference as well)...to say nothing about what could happen with Phoenix.

It's obvious that the NHL's endgame is 32 teams...and it makes no sense to expand by two teams in the west while Quebec is building an arena and Markham seems inevitable. Phoenix moving to Seattle (or staying in the desert) creates no problem...but Phoenix moving to Quebec...good God. It's one thing to have Winnipeg in the Southeast, it's another to have Quebec in the Pacific.

Mind you that kind of headache would hardly be unprecedented...it just seems short-sighted.


As for Seattle...it's inevitable there as well. Be it Phoenix or an expansion team. Fun note to the Colorado/Seattle expansion connection in 1990 - both Denver and Seattle were set to get expansion teams in 1976, but when the Kansas City Scouts moved to Colorado, which caused the Denver expansion franchise to become redundant, Seattle lost their team. Unfortunately for Seattle the next time the league was opened up for expansion was the 1992 debacle (the Sharks were a special case and it wasn't a franchise that was up for bidding).

That's right it was denver thank you. I was thinking of the 76 expansion.

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02-24-2013, 10:36 AM
  #95
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This realignment should be easier then they are making it. Start with the premise that every team plays 2 games against every other team in the league. Wouldn't all fans like the opportunity to see all the leagues teams and players? That would account for 58 games. That would also make travel somewhat more equitable between eastern and western teams. Next divide the teams into 6 divisions of 5 teams. Determine the alignment based on proximity for development of rivalries and time zones for convenience of fan viewing. A team plays each member of their own division an additional 2 or 3 times (10-15 more games).Then like the NFL play an additional 2 or 3 other divisions 1 more game. This could be rotated year in and year out. The total would be 58+10 (or 15)+ 15 (or 10)=83. We could even remove 1 or more dreaded preseason games which players and fans dislike!

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02-24-2013, 10:37 AM
  #96
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I remember Jason Chimera saying how this alignment was unfair to Winnipeg being the only Canadian team in that division/conference. Was that just his opinion or that of the NHLPA? Unless there are a lot of aspects to this alignment we don't know yet (which there probably are), I don't see how the NHLPA could disapprove of last year's plan and approve this new plan.

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02-24-2013, 10:45 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
I remember Jason Chimera saying how this alignment was unfair to Winnipeg being the only Canadian team in that division/conference. Was that just his opinion or that of the NHLPA? Unless there are a lot of aspects to this alignment we don't know yet (which there probably are), I don't see how the NHLPA could disapprove of last year's plan and approve this new plan.
Been saying the same thing, or asking the same thing. What is it that this scenario has which would resolve the issues that the PA had with the previous scenario.

But I also just asked a question above: Who actually put this proposal together? I thought this one was done with a group of owners and the PA working together; and now they need to get the vote from all the owners as a group. But is it the other way around, that the owners put this together and now need to get the PA's approval? Which is it?

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02-24-2013, 10:49 AM
  #98
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Fairness is very important to the established fans of existing franchises. But if the lockout proved anything, it's that no matter how badly you beat a true fan, they come back. So from the league perspective, I don't think they care that much.

They do, obviously, care about revenue.

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02-24-2013, 10:52 AM
  #99
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Does anyone know how the playoffs would work? Could the 1st place team from the "Atlantic" division play the 4th place finisher from the "Pacific" Division?

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02-24-2013, 10:53 AM
  #100
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I hate uneven conferences/divisions/groupings of any name

Ridiculous.

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