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Old
02-24-2013, 11:16 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I cant believe we are honestly talking about blowing up this squad after the season the Rangers had last year. Wtf is going on??? Cant say that this discussion isnt warranted, because it is... I just cant believe that we go from a great young team to a decimated roster talking about underperforming vets, buyouts and trades.

In retrospect, I actually wish the season would have been cancelled. It would have been easier to deal with than this.

If the Rangers do trade gabby and buyout richards, we better get back some serious young talent and top picks that pan out
It's really not though...

They've been abominable recently. It's still the beginning of a season format that will never be repeated. "Blowing it up" would be beyond stupid. Hank isn't getting any younger.

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02-24-2013, 11:17 AM
  #27
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The funny thing is, Richards ends up getting bought out, Gabby gets traded, albeit for a good return, but not straight up for another player of his caliber obviously and we're building an offense around Rick Nash. Might actually be better than trying to have three "superstars" in the lineup and no depth.
weren't the blue jackets doing the same thing with Nash? I have no problem with "building around Nash", but it has to be real talent, not NHL retreads and mediocre talents. The whole point was Nash not having to shoulder the whole burden alone. I can't imagine it working in NY, if didn't work in Ohio...

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:19 AM
  #28
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Antropov has more offensive ability in his pinky then Boyle does.

Nik should come cheaper than before,Sather gave a 2nd for him and I dont think hes worth that now.
Ability doesn't equal production. And your answer to solving his team's offende is to add a 33 year old guy who is not performing and whose production has declined three straight season. All the while adding salary and eating up cap space.

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02-24-2013, 11:21 AM
  #29
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Ability doesn't equal production. And your answer to solving his team's offende is to add a 33 year old guy who is not performing and whose production has declined three straight season. All the while adding salary and eating up cap space.
I would like you to come up with another rental option? I rather buy low then spend a ton on a Iginla( who is also not doing well)

Boyle is a pile and it wont hurt them moving that salary out and replacing it with a rental......they cant add salary to next yr with the RFA's

sorry to get off topic as this is a Richards thread.............bottom line with him is give the guy a chance to bounce back and IF he doesnt yea sure buy him out, I think we all agree with this

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02-24-2013, 11:21 AM
  #30
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No need to blow up this team.

Re-working the system, improving the PP and we already have a few more wins this season.

I'm not saying fire Torts, but he really needs to adapt here, and he hasn't been able to do that. You can't let injuries bring you down like this. How many of us were actually expecting wins with Nash out? Its pathetic that if Nash or McD are out we are completely screwed.

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02-24-2013, 11:25 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
I would like you to come up with another rental option? I rather buy low then spend a ton on a Iginla( who is also not doing well)

Boyle is a pile and it wont hurt them moving that salary out and replacing it with a rental......they cant add salary to next yr with the RFA's

sorry to get off topic as this is a Richards thread.............bottom line with him is give the guy a chance to bounce back and IF he doesnt yea sure buy him out, I think we all agree with this
A rental option for what? Why do they need a rental option?

Right now, what they do need is to get healthy, figure out how to play a full 60 minutes and re-discover the identity that made them successful last year

Nik Antropov or any of your other beloved rental options can't do that.

We all know you love to play arm chair GM but making trades based on ideas like "he's a pile" and Nik Natropv (with his whopping 5 more points than the aforementioned pile)will "add offense" is silly. Especially when you look at this team and at what their current flaws are.


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Old
02-24-2013, 11:25 AM
  #32
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Can understand buying out Richards and maybe trading Gaborik.

Firing Torts--the performance of his team with no training camp and several key players out all things considered does not necessarily mean he should go. He should go only if there is a better option for
the team moving ahead. Don't really want to hear about it at least until those calling for his head could postulate some of those options. I'll start--Lindy Ruff? I don't think so.

I trade Gaborik if I'm not liking my chances of making the playoffs and I get a very good return--including that team's 1st rd. pick this season + quite a bit more. Girardi should bring back a 1st as well + but to be honest I'm not interested in moving him except for an overpayment. A solid d-man like him is worth a lot to a team that has serious hopes of going far in the playoffs and good defensemen are a premium and always key late minute additions. The problem here also is these won't be early 1st round picks.

We can write the season off (if need be)--still keep the core--come back healthy and hungrier (grittier) next year--work on upgrading the overall talent of the team where we can get back to rolling 4 lines. That's not pleasant when you had such high hopes to begin with but you don't always get what you want.

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:36 AM
  #33
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I won't overreact over a lockout season with no preparation after losing a bunch of glue players and no times for the new ones to mesh, specially when half of them didn't come ready to play and had already checked out (Richards). I think whatever happens this season, burn the tape and take it seriously next year. Then if **** continues I would blow it up but the Rangers have too many bricks laid down to completely blow anything up.

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:38 AM
  #34
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yea it isnt horrific at 1.7 but it is too much for a 4th liner.......If Rupp can be moved at 1.5 then Boyle has value.....im not saying just give him away but I would deal him for a cheaper option or even a rental.........similar to Powe at 1 mil saving 500K over Rupp

Reality Richards, Gaborik, Nash, Callahan, Stepan, Hagelin are locked in for spots............Asham, Halpern,Powe should be the 4th line........so that leaves Pyatt, Boyle and then kids, Miller, Thomas, Kreider.............they need one or two vet rentals this yr...........I offer Boyle to Winnipeg for Antropov and say a late pick...............Jets get a guy who is under contract for a yr and Rangers get help now for the offense.......Antropov isnt tearing it up so he should have the highest value
I'm not automatically against moving Boyle, but again Halpern is going to be 37 when this season is over and I would rather keep Boyle as our 4th line C. He won't make as much on his next contract, based on the way he has played, and he is ideal for the role, and great because he can be on a #1 PK and slide up the lineup in case of injuries. The marginal amount by which he's overpaid is not enough for me to move him. I would also rather him on the fourth line with Halpern and Powe than Asham. Boyle, Halpern, Powe is a really excellent fourth line.

Yes, we could use a veteran third liner to play with Miller and Kreider. Someone better than Boyle and yes, someone of Antropov's ilk/cost would be ideal, but I'd rather offer a C level prospect and a third or a second and ADD depth, rather than swap one guy for another. Also, one reason I AM against moving Boyle is that I think part of the problem this year is that we took a tight knit, largely home grown group (even guys like Prust who weren't "home grown" in the strictest sense became legit NHL players in NY, or guys like Feds who had a kinship with AA and won a Cup with Richards and Torts earlier in his career, and guys like Mitchell who had been looking for his shot, trying to prove himself) and we showed that we're willing to ship guys out and dismantle that chemistry and that your friends in the room are not safe and could be gone tomorrow, while bringing in a bunch of new faces. The result is visible in the other thread about whether or not we're too soft of a team. That TEAM mentality where EVERYONE played like a Ranger last year and everyone blocked shots, finished checks, forechecked hard and backchecked harder is gone. I think that has a lot to do with the turnover in the room and so I don't take a well liked guy on a cheap contract like Boyle and move him just for the sake of it. He should be our fourth line center going forward. We want to add a veteran for a pick to bolster our depth, that's fine. Moving out more familiar faces is not the answer right now, IMO.


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Old
02-24-2013, 11:41 AM
  #35
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weren't the blue jackets doing the same thing with Nash? I have no problem with "building around Nash", but it has to be real talent, not NHL retreads and mediocre talents. The whole point was Nash not having to shoulder the whole burden alone. I can't imagine it working in NY, if didn't work in Ohio...
The difference between Columbus building around Nash and NYR building around Nash would be night and day. We will be a max cap team so there will be other stars in our lineup.

That said, it's still way too premature to be having serious thoughts of blowing up this team. We're only 1/3 of the way through the season. Plenty of time for our guys to get healthy and the team to start playing solid hockey. And as we all know, you want to be playing your best hockey going into the playoffs, not out of the gate. This season isn't a lost cause at this point.

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:41 AM
  #36
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If Richards continues to dog it I wonder how seriously they'd consider buying him out this summer instead of next and go after Getzlaf. Buy out Richards, trade Gaborik, sign Getzlaf and Perry

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:42 AM
  #37
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I can see Pyatt as an upgrade for Feds, even though i don't see that much about his game that i like...

Why didn't we have to let Mitchell go and sign Halpern? to me that was just useless turnover. Nothing wrong with Mitchell as a 4C and not disrupting that much chemistry.

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:44 AM
  #38
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The difference between Columbus building around Nash and NYR building around Nash would be night and day. We will be a max cap team so there will be other stars in our lineup.

That said, it's still way too premature to be having serious thoughts of blowing up this team. We're only 1/3 of the way through the season. Plenty of time for our guys to get healthy and the team to start playing solid hockey. And as we all know, you want to be playing your best hockey going into the playoffs, not out of the gate. This season isn't a lost cause at this point.
yes it has to be real talent. If we buyout out BR we need a top 1C coming in! if we trade Gaborik, we need at least a 30g scorer coming back!

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02-24-2013, 11:47 AM
  #39
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Keep most of the team together. Make some minor moves like the Powe deal that seemed to help us out before everyone went down injured. if that doesn't work..... then...
We need a big body who hits, fights, leads and scores. If that means dealing a top prospect, then so be it.

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:53 AM
  #40
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I would like you to come up with another rental option?

Why are you convinced we need a rental? Or this rental is going to single-handedly lead us to the promise land?

I don't think we need anything yet. Not until we know what we have. We haven't seen this team operate on all cylinders.

There were a lot of changes with the roster. Add a shortened season, and some injuries on top of that.

Torts has had more success with less.

Patience is probably our best move now. The team needs to start playing together. We haven't seen that yet.

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:59 AM
  #41
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Patience is probably our best move now. The team needs to start playing together. We haven't seen that yet.
Indeed. Still a lot of hockey to be played.

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Old
02-24-2013, 12:26 PM
  #42
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http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...GOJVqBj4SYWbdN

Brooks brings up Gaborik as a compliance buyout. What? The Rangers can trade him. The Rangers should trade him. Richards is an absolute compliance buyout. If he plays this way for the rest of the season,consider executing the buyout this summer. Why risk the possibility of an injury?
Many teams will be able to not use 2 compliance buyouts, or use them on lesser numbered guys (i.e., like if we had kept Rupp and used one on him).

We should try to trade Richards, his NMC notwithstanding, to a club that will use their compliance on him. That will allow us to keep our last compliance as emergency insurance in case somebody like Nash gets too injured to be worth his contract, but not injured enough to go on LRIR.

We have to pay a trade partner for the privilege of doing that.
I don't know how much we are allowed to eat of Richards salary both this year, next, and as to the cost of the buyout. Even assuming we could do most of the $$$, beyond such financing, we have to pay a team to do this for us.

That is the approach we should try, and we should do it without delay, not wait til the off season.

I called it on Richards. Sorry I had to, but the truth must be told.
Let's bite the bullet and move on.

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Old
02-24-2013, 12:32 PM
  #43
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We took a chance hoping Richards would be a good player. He was showing decline already in dallas and had just been concussed not to mention wrong side of 30 and all that.

We now have a miracle option to dump it. I'd NEVER advocate dumping Gabs who has actually performed up to and perhaps past expectation. Nash is likewise signed to massive length but I'd NEVER advocate dumping him because he's clearlyworth every penny.

That said we all know Gabs contract is up soon and that he is too old to resign so we WILL lose him anyway. If we can trade him for some picks and/or a good prospect and a legitamate 2nd/3rd liner around the level of an anisimov it's great. On top of that the cap space is needed. So we add a little to our pool, keep Nash (who is better than Gabs by a significant degree), keep everyone (Hag, step, CK, McD, Staal , MDZ, McI, JT and those highly regarded overseas prospects we have). There's a LOT to go with.

This team sans Richards and Gabs is way more talented than anything Nash was ever with in Clb. And we also have the willingness to go out an sign/trade for guys like Boyle, Prust, Feds, etc to fill out the roster around him. Most of the roster IS filled out around him. I don't consider dumping BR and Gabs blowing it up tho b/c there's way too much still there

Even if we buyout Richards and keep Gabs I'm still comfortable so no I do not think we have to explore getting rid of Gab but I certainly understand the rationale and think it could be a good idea.

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02-24-2013, 12:33 PM
  #44
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I agree it's time for the front office to start thinking about buying out Richards. His lack of production and just poor performance all together is enough to start the idea of doing it but also the fact that he's old and is gonna be lingering around for the next several years at 6 1/2 per year. I'll say this.....come 2014, it's going to be interesting for the Rangers and FA. Nearly half the roster will be UFA's. I wonder who stays and who goes. For some reason I don't see Callahan resigning.

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02-24-2013, 12:36 PM
  #45
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I definitely think Richards could be traded, but the fact the clause of retirement while under a backloaded contract in the new CBA is concerning. Would totally screw the team over.

I'm all for trading Gabby after the season if they want to shed salary and promote from within.

Could they go after a Perry and deal Gaborik somewhat like trading Gomez, although much more of an albatross, get young players/picks in return and use that money to sign Perry in the offseason? With the cap going down, It might be best to kind of do what Philly did with Richards and Carter and get value back for the players and take that a develop younger at the NHL level.

If both of them were to go, I'd like to see the team add Perry/Getzlaf, whichever becomes available. Depending on the signing based on position, I'd like to sign a 2nd line forward as well, to allow some flexibility if Stepan takes a jump to become a top line player. Personally hope Perry becomes available. I'd try and sign Stephen Weiss. Doubt Florida keeps him. Good 2nd line or even top line option if need be. Get rid of the 3rd and 4th line plugs we have (Boyle) an try younger players with something to prove there.

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Old
02-24-2013, 12:42 PM
  #46
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Many teams will be able to not use 2 compliance buyouts, or use them on lesser numbered guys (i.e., like if we had kept Rupp and used one on him).

We should try to trade Richards, his NMC notwithstanding, to a club that will use their compliance on him. That will allow us to keep our last compliance as emergency insurance in case somebody like Nash gets too injured to be worth his contract, but not injured enough to go on LRIR.

We have to pay a trade partner for the privilege of doing that.
I don't know how much we are allowed to eat of Richards salary both this year, next, and as to the cost of the buyout. Even assuming we could do most of the $$$, beyond such financing, we have to pay a team to do this for us.

That is the approach we should try, and we should do it without delay, not wait til the off season.

I called it on Richards. Sorry I had to, but the truth must be told.
Let's bite the bullet and move on.
Why would we pay for the privilege of having someone else use an amnesty buyout on Richards? Who else are we going to need/want to buyout in the next 16 months? There are no more long term cap destroying deals left on our roster, with the exception of perhaps Nash, who isn't going anywhere. Not sure I see the need to lose more assets.

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02-24-2013, 12:43 PM
  #47
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I Definately feared Richards contract but being front loaded I though the Rangers would get the 4 really good years out of him.

I just took a look at cap geek. This doesn't look like a traceable contract to me. After this season dollar amount is $9mil, $8.5, $8.5 and $7 mil. Plus another $10 mil in bonus money. $33 mil in salary alone After this season. Any team interested would seriously have to love this guy as a player to have interest. Or...you would have to take one unwanted contract back in exchange for another.

Buyout is making more sense at this point .

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Old
02-24-2013, 12:50 PM
  #48
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Indeed. Still a lot of hockey to be played.
And not just this season.

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Old
02-24-2013, 12:50 PM
  #49
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We took a chance hoping Richards would be a good player. He was showing decline already in dallas and had just been concussed not to mention wrong side of 30 and all that.

We now have a miracle option to dump it. I'd NEVER advocate dumping Gabs who has actually performed up to and perhaps past expectation. Nash is likewise signed to massive length but I'd NEVER advocate dumping him because he's clearlyworth every penny.

That said we all know Gabs contract is up soon and that he is too old to resign so we WILL lose him anyway. If we can trade him for some picks and/or a good prospect and a legitamate 2nd/3rd liner around the level of an anisimov it's great. On top of that the cap space is needed. So we add a little to our pool, keep Nash (who is better than Gabs by a significant degree), keep everyone (Hag, step, CK, McD, Staal , MDZ, McI, JT and those highly regarded overseas prospects we have). There's a LOT to go with.

This team sans Richards and Gabs is way more talented than anything Nash was ever with in Clb. And we also have the willingness to go out an sign/trade for guys like Boyle, Prust, Feds, etc to fill out the roster around him. Most of the roster IS filled out around him. I don't consider dumping BR and Gabs blowing it up tho b/c there's way too much still there

Even if we buyout Richards and keep Gabs I'm still comfortable so no I do not think we have to explore getting rid of Gab but I certainly understand the rationale and think it could be a good idea.
Completely agreed. To me, the core is:

Nash
Cally
Steps
Hags
Miller
Krieder
Staal
McD
Girardi
Hank
(I don't include MDZ, because I think he could be moved for a player of similar value and age who's a better fit - e.g. ROR - that could then be added to the group above.)

As long as you aren't moving guys off of that list and keep the majority of the top prospects in the system, you aren't blowing up the core. Indeed, in moving Gabs and/or Richie, you'd be looking to grow that core.

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02-24-2013, 12:51 PM
  #50
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Don't know what happened to this guy from last year to now.. no way he declined this much in a year

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