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HNIC shows new potential alignment with 16 teams in "east" groupings

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02-24-2013, 12:32 PM
  #151
patnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
And realignment also should NOT be about Canadian snowbirds seeing their team in person in South Florida while the Panthers and Hurricanes (and Lightning), teams not too far from each other in relative NHL terms, are in different conferences (per this proposal).

Just sayin...
Right, because having division teams close to the teams in florida has done wonders for their ticket sales and bottom-lines.

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02-24-2013, 12:33 PM
  #152
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Dallas was in the norris. It should be with Chicago.

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02-24-2013, 12:33 PM
  #153
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I still do not get what is wrong with something like this...


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02-24-2013, 12:34 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
It should be about making money in their cases. Who is more likely to show up on the road. It's clear the message being sent here by the NHL: You're not showing up to enough games, so we're opening the door for people who will.
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We really have to think about this, frankly. The Florida teams don't want in with the Canadian teams, and Montreal openly stated that they don't want it either. So who's forcing that alignment? It has to be the Atlantic teams that don't want the Florida teams in their group. They're probably siding with Carolina and saying: Put Carolina with us, which then precludes the Florida teams being added into the Atlantic. **** that Atlantic Division!
GKJ, don't take this as me challenging your POV on this, but I'd like to know your response to the above.

If the Florida teams aren't in favor of it, and some of those Canadian teams are against it, then who is forcing the issue?

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02-24-2013, 12:36 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by NJDevils7 View Post
I still do not get what is wrong with something like this...

because it is 6 divisions and they are finally realizing 4 divisions with divisional play-offs is better for the league. Both for rivalries and $$$$.

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02-24-2013, 12:36 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
And Toronto. Detroit has wanted to be east forever though. Chicago gotta get the rivalry with Dallas and LA going and become the anchor of the west.
LA won't be in their division. I'm sure they'll try to force a rivalry with Minnesota, and it's cool to finally have them in the division, but it's not the same as having Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, and Minnesota all together.

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02-24-2013, 12:38 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by NJDevils7 View Post
I still do not get what is wrong with something like this...

Selfishly speaking as a Wild fan, I prefer the NHL's proposal. I want the Wild out of a division with Calgary and Edmonton. Minnesota, Winnipeg, Chicago, and St Louis have a historical rivalry..and it would make sense to include Dallas in there as well.


Last edited by MuckOG: 02-24-2013 at 12:44 PM.
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02-24-2013, 12:40 PM
  #158
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A few points based on the opinions being presented:

Perhaps we should believe the league and expansion really isn't on the cards for a while. The fact that the HFBoards list of preferred expansion/relocation cities does not fit in this realignment means nothing to Gary Bettman and the league. Look back at how many times the league was realigned from the O6 era through the end of the WHA. They will deal with it as it comes.

If Detroit valued their rivalry with Chicago and St Louis as much as people here think they do they would not have been demanding since the 90s to move to the East.

I think crossover formats and proposal made by some on here are very unnecessarily complicated. It seems like with this alignment and the Hotstove report, 4 out of 7 teams in the "Western" and "Central" conferences will make the playoffs and 5 out of 8 teams in the "Northeastern" and "Atlantic" conferences will make the playoffs. Wild Card to me implies a baseball-style short series between the 4th and 5th in those two conferences. Divisional playoffs in the first two rounds are here whether most like it or not.

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02-24-2013, 12:42 PM
  #159
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This makes a bit more sense if you swap PIT and CBJ with FLA and TB. I know PIT wants to insist on being tied to Philly but they're closer to Columbus, Detroit, and Buffalo then they are to Philly. Pittsburgh just isn't an East Coast city. The NFL and MLB realize this.

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02-24-2013, 12:50 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
GKJ, don't take this as me challenging your POV on this, but I'd like to know your response to the above.

If the Florida teams aren't in favor of it, and some of those Canadian teams are against it, then who is forcing the issue?
The Atlantic crowd who don't want to be separated from each other. If I were any one of that Toronto-Boston-Florida crowd, I'd be against it too. But there isn't enough to block the 2/3 vote, I think only three of them voted it down last year.

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02-24-2013, 12:52 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Dallas was in the norris. It should be with Chicago.
False

The North Stars were in Norris ,, The Dallas Stars were in Central for a few years then left

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02-24-2013, 12:55 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
It should be about making money in their cases. Who is more likely to show up on the road. It's clear the message being sent here by the NHL: You're not showing up to enough games, so we're opening the door for people who will.
I get that notion as well, to a degree. As it stands now, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the feasibility of how many more times Habs fans and Leafs fans will make the trips to Tampa than they currently do. Not saying they wouldn't, as they've historically shown that they do, but how many more trips above and beyond the norm? Locally, the remaining team fans have also been well respresented at Lightning games.

I wonder if this is more like an opportunity for Jeff Vinik to increase ticket pricing, as in the premium game variety, than it is to ensure butts are in the seats. I've always had the opinion since he took over as owner that a marginal-to-FMV ticket avg price increase was in order, as attendance hasn't always been an issue. It's the low price that is. I was hoping it would start this season but the Lockout kinda put a squash to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Ambiguity. With this set up you have two open spots in the west and two Florida teams playing 'Two of these things is not like the other.' I don't know the economics for the two FLA teams but Looking at the rest of the teams in the new conference, geography says those two FLA teams would be better in S. Ontario and Quebec. I'm not rooting for it but it looks like the league would consider it. Still, I see the two FLA teams have surprising attendance numbers. FLA is 9th in attendance %. and TB is 7th in average attendance.

As for the west, Portland and Seattle are there waiting for hockey. Portland has the Rose Garden; 18k seats 70 Boxes. Seattle will might have an arena with the new basketball team.
I won't lie or be delusional... that vision has been circling around in my head for the last 16 hours, that the geographical aspect to this proposal looks an awful like a QC and TOR2 franchise. Be wary of the attendance %'s and numbers, BFC999, as they tend to be "slightly" overinflated. The Lightning have announced sell outs for every home game thus far, but would venture to guess that all but 2 home games were actual to capacity/every seat filled true sellouts. The other 2 being around the mid-hundreds shy, but "announced" as a sell out.

I can't truly speak for Sunrise, and taking into account the apparent "vacant" seats due to Club Red. They're there, just not visible (Club Red) according to friends of mine. But proposing that the two are candidates for Northern relocation, well... that's something the League would have to seriously, and with great certainty, go thru every scenario as to why it's justified and the subsequent ramifications (Lease with Broward County as a start).

Just thinking out loud here with some difficulty.


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 02-24-2013 at 01:01 PM. Reason: rephrase that
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02-24-2013, 12:55 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
Selfishly speaking as a Wild fan, I prefer the NHL's proposal. I want the Wild out of a division with Calgary and Edmonton. Minnesota, Winnipeg, Chicago, and St Louis have a historical rivalry..and it would make sense to include Dallas in there as well.
Hawks have never had any rivalry with Winnipeg

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02-24-2013, 12:55 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
The Atlantic crowd who don't want to be separated from each other. If I were any one of that Toronto-Boston-Florida crowd, I'd be against it too. But there isn't enough to block the 2/3 vote, I think only three of them voted it down last year.
Yes, but has the "Atlantic crowd" already included Carolina in its mix? No one is talking about splitting up the current Atlantic Division in order to fit the Florida teams in. But I am suggesting that the Atlantic Divsion doesn't want the Florida teams and has been pressuring to have them added in elsewhere.

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02-24-2013, 01:02 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
I get that notion as well, to a degree. As it stands now, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the feasibility of how many more times Habs fans and Leafs fans will make the trips to Tampa than they currently do. Not saying they wouldn't, as they've historically shown that they do, but how many more trips above and beyond the norm? Locally, the remaining team fans have also been well respresented at Lightning games.
Especially if they get Detroit and somehow QC added in. Those two cities/teams are going to be more attractive additional rivals than the Florida teams will ever be.

And I've always argued that there is a NYC - Florida connection as well, so why not combine those two.

New Yorkers flock to Florida
http://www.postonpolitics.com/2012/1...tt-is-pleased/

Florida first choice for fleeing New Yorkers
http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/ne...eeing-new.html

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02-24-2013, 01:06 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
True alignment should be:

EASTERN CONFERENCE
Northeast: Boston, Buffalo, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
East: New Jersey, New York I, New York R, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
Southeast: Carolina, Columbus, Florida, Tampa Bay, Washington

WESTERN CONFERENCE
Central: Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota, Nashville, St. Louis
Northwest: Calgary, Colorado, Edmonton, Vancouver, Winnipeg
Southwest: Anaheim, Dallas, Los Angeles, Phoenix, San Jose

Same playoff format.
6 x 4 division games.
2(or 3) x 10 conference games.
2 x 15 interconference games.

= 74(or 84) game season.

Why can't the NHL just keep it this simple and clean?
Sucks for Columbus, Dallas, Detroit and Winnipeg

You need to consult a map. This isn't close to true alignment.

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02-24-2013, 01:06 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Yes, but has the "Atlantic crowd" already included Carolina in its mix? No one is talking about splitting up the current Atlantic Division in order to fit the Florida teams in. But I am suggesting that the Atlantic Divsion doesn't want the Florida teams and has been pressuring to have them added in elsewhere.
Whether it is Columbus and Carolina or Florida and Tampa doesn't matter to me. I just want the 6 Patrick Division teams together.

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02-24-2013, 01:06 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Yes, but has the "Atlantic crowd" already included Carolina in its mix? No one is talking about splitting up the current Atlantic Division in order to fit the Florida teams in. But I am suggesting that the Atlantic Divsion doesn't want the Florida teams and has been pressuring to have them added in elsewhere.
No, they don't want them because they want the Capitals (old rival). If it means they have to take the Hurricanes, then they will take the Hurricanes. Peter Karmanos has a lot of influence among the owners, I'm sure he wants to be there.

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02-24-2013, 01:09 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...le-hockey-team
Sporting News declares winners and losers on proposed alignment.



Good a time as any to start new thread.
Why 16 teams in the East and 14 in the West ?

Anyway, Phoenix won't stay out west for very long (be relocated in QC) and Winnipeg belongs in the Western Conf. for sure.

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02-24-2013, 01:10 PM
  #170
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I fail to see how Montreal flying to Florida is somehow worse than Edmonton flying to LA

Sure, there are a bunch of other teams between Montreal and Miami, but if the Atlantic teams wanna stick together, so be it

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02-24-2013, 01:11 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
No, they don't want them because they want the Capitals (old rival). If it means they have to take the Hurricanes, then they will take the Hurricanes. Peter Karmanos has a lot of influence among the owners, I'm sure he wants to be there.
I've got part of that, but not all of it. I don't see why the Atlantic has to take Carolina if it wants Washington. But you're saying that Karmanos' wanting to keep the Hurricanes from being part of the NE is what's forcing the Florida teams into the NE contrary to what the Florida teams want and what some of the NE want.


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02-24-2013, 01:13 PM
  #172
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I fail to see how Montreal flying to Florida is somehow worse than Edmonton flying to LA

Sure, there are a bunch of other teams between Montreal and Miami, but if the Atlantic teams wanna stick together, so be it
The ****ing Atlantic teams can stay together regardless!!

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02-24-2013, 01:16 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
You need to consult a map. This isn't close to true alignment.
It is if you think the continent ends at the Mississippi River

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02-24-2013, 01:21 PM
  #174
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I like that division from a TB perspective. Doesn't change viewing times at all as its still all ETZ, travel is still cake compared to anything in the west, and most importantly that division is way bigger $ than the current one. Don't really care what Florida thinks, but pretty much the same perspective there.
The division is terrible when applied to common sense. You have two teams who are completely removed from the rest of the division, you actually have to pass an entire division to get to them. It makes more sense to take the two northernmost teams in the "Atlantic" conference and move them into into the northern one while adding Tampa to the Atlantic conference.

The division may be bigger money but Tampa is relying less and less on visiting fans as their own fanbase has swelled. It makes no sense to put them in a conference where the reasoning is "You don't have enough fans". It's insulting.

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02-24-2013, 01:24 PM
  #175
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I still do not get what is wrong with something like this...

Say NJ isn't tied to NY. For the sake of argument, put the Devils where the Wings or Jackets are. Detroit/New Jersey is what, an hour flight? Hour and a half? Would you like your team to be in the west? Detroit and Columbus are further west than New Jersey, but that doesn't make them western teams.

Vancouver is an original NHL expansion team, and have been around for 40 years. Winnipeg is a recently relocated team, and were originally a WHA team. Vancouver doesn't want to split from Edmonton and Calgary. If the league could've put Vancouver in the Pacific, it would've been done in 1998.

There's no way the important teams in the East want Nashville in the East. It's an hour behind. The East doesn't do 8pm.

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