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Old
02-24-2013, 11:43 AM
  #951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Jones View Post
Is it wrong to want them to come close but just miss the playoffs? The experience would be great, but nobody could fault them for missing after their miserable start, and I'd rather give up this year's pick to OKC than next year's...
if your a raps fan that is 100% wrong

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02-24-2013, 12:04 PM
  #952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Jones View Post
Is it wrong to want them to come close but just miss the playoffs? The experience would be great, but nobody could fault them for missing after their miserable start, and I'd rather give up this year's pick to OKC than next year's...
Pretty sure these are the conditions on the pick:

Quote:
2013 first round pick (protected top 3 and 15-30 in 2013, top 2 and 15-30 in 2014-15, top 1 and 15-30 in 2016-17, unprotected in 2018)
So if we keep making the playoffs the next few seasons, which IMO is very possible (this yr will obviously be tough),then we'd just give up the pick at whatever spot it is in 2018. The one issue I see is that I'm not sure if we'd be able to move a 1st rd pick in a trade until this deal is complete. That's not a problem right now since we should be holding on to our 1st rd picks, but it could become an annoyance later. I still want playoffs this year though.

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Old
02-24-2013, 12:10 PM
  #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Jones View Post
Is it wrong to want them to come close but just miss the playoffs? The experience would be great, but nobody could fault them for missing after their miserable start, and I'd rather give up this year's pick to OKC than next year's...
You know what would be the best? Raps finish with like the 10th worst record and then win the lottery, Chicago Bulls style.

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02-24-2013, 12:17 PM
  #954
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The thing that I would hate about making the playoffs is giving Bosh the satisfaction of beating us in the first round. I would hate it. Not saying that I don't want to make the playoffs, it will just sting to just be fodder for the Miami Heat.


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Old
02-24-2013, 12:57 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
if your a raps fan that is 100% wrong
I don't think it's wrong. If the Raptors make the playoffs, it's going to be as an 8 seed. Which means they would play Miami and they would get destroyed. So if we're going to lose a draft pick, we might as well lose it this year in a weak draft and not have the spectre of that hanging over the team's head for the next few seasons.

And honestly the idea of the playoffs being a learning experience is BS unless you can compete to some degree. Getting smoked in 4 straight teaches you nothing. Except that you're not good enough yet. Which is something you can also learn by finishing 9th in the conference.

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02-24-2013, 02:51 PM
  #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
I don't think it's wrong. If the Raptors make the playoffs, it's going to be as an 8 seed. Which means they would play Miami and they would get destroyed. So if we're going to lose a draft pick, we might as well lose it this year in a weak draft and not have the spectre of that hanging over the team's head for the next few seasons.

And honestly the idea of the playoffs being a learning experience is BS unless you can compete to some degree. Getting smoked in 4 straight teaches you nothing. Except that you're not good enough yet. Which is something you can also learn by finishing 9th in the conference.
Playoff anything is quite a bit different then regular season. The whole feel of the playoff atmosphere is nothing compared to what the regular season is like. I do agree that losing a pick this year is probably the better option for Toronto, but I would kinda rather see them make the playoffs sooner rather then later.

TBH It's gonna most likely be the Heat we play in the 1st round any how, weather it's this season or next season, say what you want but the players have to play at another level in the playoffs, and I would rather give the guys a taste of that this season so they hopefully are ready for it next, then miss the playoffs this year.

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02-24-2013, 02:56 PM
  #957
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9th is the ideal spot for me as well this year. Just be done with the pick, having it hang over our heads for years would suck.

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02-24-2013, 03:06 PM
  #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
I don't think it's wrong. If the Raptors make the playoffs, it's going to be as an 8 seed. Which means they would play Miami and they would get destroyed. So if we're going to lose a draft pick, we might as well lose it this year in a weak draft and not have the spectre of that hanging over the team's head for the next few seasons.

And honestly the idea of the playoffs being a learning experience is BS unless you can compete to some degree. Getting smoked in 4 straight teaches you nothing. Except that you're not good enough yet. Which is something you can also learn by finishing 9th in the conference.
We've played Miami very well this season. I don't see us getting blown out in 4 straight. We could likely get swept, but I don't see this team getting blown out in any game.

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02-24-2013, 03:07 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
We've played Miami very well this season. I don't see us getting blown out in 4 straight. We could likely get swept, but I don't see this team getting blown out in any game.
We have hung in there, I love that

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02-24-2013, 03:20 PM
  #960
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Plus, I could see us stealing some home games against Miami. A sold out ACC in playoff atmosphere would be one of the toughest places to play in the NBA. Especially for Bosh. You never know. Let's just get there and enjoy it!

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02-24-2013, 03:34 PM
  #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
Plus, I could see us stealing some home games against Miami. A sold out ACC in playoff atmosphere would be one of the toughest places to play in the NBA. Especially for Bosh. You never know. Let's just get there and enjoy it!
Bosh has owned us since he has went to Miami. He hit a dagger three against us last time we faced them. Plus its not exactly fair to point to regular season matchups as the reason why we would fair well against Miami. Miami is notorious for playing down to the competition during the regular season, its why they haven't ever been in first place during the Big Three era.

I'd rather finish 7th and face the Knicks, that's a matchup we could take. 7th or 9th, that's what I'd want. 8th is 4 games and then golf.

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02-24-2013, 11:50 PM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
The thing that I would hate about making the playoffs is giving Bosh the satisfaction of beating us in the first round. I would hate it. Not saying that I don't want to make the playoffs, it will just sting to just be fodder for the Miami Heat.
But imagine the satisfaction that would come with upsetting the heat and knocking bosh out in the first round...

Then again, bosh already won a championship, I doubt he's holding much of a grudge against toronto and I don't see much reason to hold one against him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
I don't think it's wrong. If the Raptors make the playoffs, it's going to be as an 8 seed. Which means they would play Miami and they would get destroyed. So if we're going to lose a draft pick, we might as well lose it this year in a weak draft and not have the spectre of that hanging over the team's head for the next few seasons.

And honestly the idea of the playoffs being a learning experience is BS unless you can compete to some degree. Getting smoked in 4 straight teaches you nothing. Except that you're not good enough yet. Which is something you can also learn by finishing 9th in the conference.
This train of thought reminds me of a parable about a guy who prays to god for help during a flood. People come to rescue the man via boat, life raft, and helicopter, and the man turns them all away saying he believes god will save him. The man drowns in the flood, and when he gets to heaven he asks god why he didn't answer the man's prayers, and god say's "are you kidding me, I sent you a boat, a liferaft, and a helicopter!"

If you can make the playoffs, just get in and go for the ride! Otherwise you're saying that the only time it's worth making the playoffs is when you're a top 4 team in the league, and that may not happen in my lifetime.

I also think a lot of the top teams, because they ride stars so hard, are the most prone to decimating injuries, which can always even up a playoff series quickly.

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Old
02-25-2013, 12:09 AM
  #963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socratic View Post

This train of thought reminds me of a parable about a guy who prays to god for help during a flood. People come to rescue the man via boat, life raft, and helicopter, and the man turns them all away saying he believes god will save him. The man drowns in the flood, and when he gets to heaven he asks god why he didn't answer the man's prayers, and god say's "are you kidding me, I sent you a boat, a liferaft, and a helicopter!"

If you can make the playoffs, just get in and go for the ride! Otherwise you're saying that the only time it's worth making the playoffs is when you're a top 4 team in the league, and that may not happen in my lifetime.

I also think a lot of the top teams, because they ride stars so hard, are the most prone to decimating injuries, which can always even up a playoff series quickly.
Your comparison/parable makes no sense in this context. I'm not telling them to lose games on purpose or to refuse anything or any other comment of the sort. I was just addressing that they're not good enough as it stands to make any serious noise in the playoffs. They'd likely just get run out in 4 straight. And given that they've got to give up a draft pick sooner or later, they might as well lose it now in a crap draft as opposed to potentially missing out on the playoffs in the next couple years and losing the opportunity to get a stronger player out of that pick.

Also I made absolutely no assertion that they should only go for it if they're top 4. I think that next year they can and should run as far as they can. They'll almost certainly be a better team than they are now, and even if that likely only places them in the 6-8 range, I think they could still potentially do some damage. I don't see that out of this year's squad.

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Old
02-25-2013, 02:51 AM
  #964
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The Raptors are now 9th!

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Old
02-25-2013, 10:25 AM
  #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
I don't think it's wrong. If the Raptors make the playoffs, it's going to be as an 8 seed. Which means they would play Miami and they would get destroyed. So if we're going to lose a draft pick, we might as well lose it this year in a weak draft and not have the spectre of that hanging over the team's head for the next few seasons.

And honestly the idea of the playoffs being a learning experience is BS unless you can compete to some degree. Getting smoked in 4 straight teaches you nothing. Except that you're not good enough yet. Which is something you can also learn by finishing 9th in the conference.
I see what your saying and if the team chooses to remember the playoff experience as a blowout if it happen then you have mentally soft players. Its up to the coaching staff and management to put a positive spin on the season and bring the good points to light.

Anytime you can make the playoffs you need to make them just ask the LA Kings. So they blown out in 4 straight there is a learning curve and going to playoffs while getting beat serves as lessons and provides experience.

They get the playoff atmosphere from the ACC crowd and the playoff intensity felt can be used that next season Casey can use as motivation tell his players remember when the ACC was nuts and the adrenaline you guys felt going out there for your first playoff home game....that is our goal to get that feeling back.

If you say well I would rather finish 9th then the players don't get that feeling to take into next season or possible players coming to Toronto will say well they never make the playoffs so I want to go to a team that makes the playoffs.

The value outweighs any worry about getting blownout 4 straight. Imagine them stealing a game or 2 or even better pulling an upset however unlikely would be a huge boost for a franchise.

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Old
02-25-2013, 10:38 AM
  #966
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The Raptors are now 9th!
Progress. It feels good. How can anyone be upset? The Gay trade SAVED Coangelo's job.

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02-25-2013, 11:10 AM
  #967
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Your comparison/parable makes no sense in this context. I'm not telling them to lose games on purpose or to refuse anything or any other comment of the sort. I was just addressing that they're not good enough as it stands to make any serious noise in the playoffs. They'd likely just get run out in 4 straight. And given that they've got to give up a draft pick sooner or later, they might as well lose it now in a crap draft as opposed to potentially missing out on the playoffs in the next couple years and losing the opportunity to get a stronger player out of that pick.

Also I made absolutely no assertion that they should only go for it if they're top 4. I think that next year they can and should run as far as they can. They'll almost certainly be a better team than they are now, and even if that likely only places them in the 6-8 range, I think they could still potentially do some damage. I don't see that out of this year's squad.
Fair enough. Though I think that saying "I am okay with them not making the playoffs" is the same as being okay with them losing games. Admittedly, it's not the end of the world if that happens. I just don't understand why a fan would hope that they don't make the playoffs now.

To me that is the equivalent of turning away your favourite dessert because you think someone might come by in an hour with a larger serving of your favourite dessert.

The truth is we have a chance to make the playoffs for the next 3 or 4 straight years, and if we do, we give up a late first rounder in 2017. Now we may not make the playoffs any of those years, but I'd rather bring a sign to the games that says "Lets do playoffs!" than "Let's come 9th so we don't have to deal with uncertainty!"

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02-25-2013, 12:11 PM
  #968
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The other reason I would prefer they miss the playoffs this year instead of in the future is that I believe as long as the stipulation of the Lowry trade is hanging over the team, they can't trade any future 1st picks (they'd only be able to make trades after the lottery when their draft spot is set). Which hurts their ability to make potentially necessary deals at future trade deadlines involving picks.

So if they make the playoffs this year and next year there's an opportunity to pickup a solid player at the deadline (say that proper PF we covet to replace Bargs and pair with Johnson) they can't trade a 1st for the 2014 draft or beyond because they could still potentially miss the playoffs in any of those years and need to give up that pick to satisfy the Lowry deal.

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02-25-2013, 04:10 PM
  #969
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I'm new to the NBA, how's their equivalent of NHL's GCL? What quality, are there blackouts? Android app available?

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02-25-2013, 04:16 PM
  #970
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I am 50/50 on the giving up the pick this year. Ya it's a bad draft year and it looks like the way this season is going we finish somewhere 10th-8th. Best case scenario is we finish 9th give up the worst possible lottery pick to OKC, and it's a moral victory for the team considering they started 4-19 and finished so close to the playoffs with a lot of turmoil surrounding the team. Then they start next season strong and fresh and hopefully get a quality backup PG and a new PF in the off-season and have Amir come back of the bench as our new super sub.

On the other hand we make the playoffs. Ya it's the playoffs and it's exciting and anything can happen but I don't think this team is ready to go deep in the playoffs. Miami will destroy us but eventually if we want this young team to get better they need to experience the playoffs and get that experience for future years so they'll be more prepared for the hostility, tenacity and brutality of that which is the playoffs.

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02-25-2013, 04:26 PM
  #971
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If we do make the playoffs, it will be hilarious to see how much hate this team receives from the American media, who have never liked the Raptors to begin with. We're always underrated as it is, but if we play Miami as the 8 seed, I expect the fools like Steven A. Smith, Skip Bayless, Charles Barkley to talk a lot of ****. I expect their predictions will be something ridiculous like a sweep for Miami with 4 straight wins by over 30 points.

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02-25-2013, 04:34 PM
  #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
If we do make the playoffs, it will be hilarious to see how much hate this team receives from the American media, who have never liked the Raptors to begin with. We're always underrated as it is, but if we play Miami as the 8 seed, I expect the fools like Steven A. Smith, Skip Bayless, Charles Barkley to talk a lot of ****. I expect their predictions will be something ridiculous like a sweep for Miami with 4 straight wins by over 30 points.
But Barkley always says how he loves the city of Toronto and how it's his favourite place to visit.

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02-25-2013, 04:40 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
If we do make the playoffs, it will be hilarious to see how much hate this team receives from the American media, who have never liked the Raptors to begin with. We're always underrated as it is, but if we play Miami as the 8 seed, I expect the fools like Steven A. Smith, Skip Bayless, Charles Barkley to talk a lot of ****. I expect their predictions will be something ridiculous like a sweep for Miami with 4 straight wins by over 30 points.
Yeah, yeah pretty much. The amount of hate and times they attack Canada and Toronto is just absurd. I hate it.

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02-25-2013, 04:53 PM
  #974
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Not sure if it's been said yet, but Wiggins won the Naismith Prep POY award.

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02-25-2013, 05:36 PM
  #975
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Not sure if it's been said yet, but Wiggins won the Naismith Prep POY award.
Of course he did. Man, that kid is gonna be special!

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