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All-Encompassing Tortorella/Sather Thread

View Poll Results: A quarter of the way through the 2013 season, do you approve or disapprove of Torts?
Approve 168 50.45%
Disapprove 165 49.55%
Voters: 333. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-24-2013, 01:41 AM
  #301
JeffMangum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
You're right. Last year was pure luck; we advanced to the ECF in spite of Torts' coaching.

And let's be real. He's had 16 games too many to get this team playing well. He should have been let go yesterday. 16 games? That's an eternity to get a team to gel together.

I'm surprised some of you aren't blaming the injuries on Torts. Oh wait. You are. It's Torts' fault Girardi turned his foot when blocking Subban's shot.

This fanbase absolutely sucks sometimes. Scratch that. Most of the time.
Umm, don't put words in my mouth.

I didn't say last year was pure luck, all I said was that it's not like Torts was doing the impossible or anything - all I'm saying is that if the team isn't responding to him, or isn't built for his system, yes, I'm going to start questioning whether or not he's the right option for this franchise moving forward. I've NEVER been a huge fan of Torts' coaching style. I like him more than a lot of other coaches, but I don't think the style of play he employs is right for our current roster.

Why does voicing this concern make me "suck" as a fan? Is it because you disagree with me? I don't give a **** if you disagree with me, disagree with me all you want, just don't belittle me or others like that, especially if you're not going to argue the points I've been bringing up with some actual analysis, just "OMG ur so stoopid" isn't going to cut it.

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Old
02-24-2013, 01:42 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
It was a really, REALLY good season.

It was a pretty decent post season. only 2 teams went further.
I'm a positive guy for the most part but I was very disappointed in last years playoff run. We were outplayed in all 3 series, and got by with our stellar D and Hank. It was infuriating that we had that large scoreless drought in the Sens series and we never really got to Holtby against the Caps.

This team lacks consistent offensive pressure night after night. That was the story last year even after our great regular season. This year, its not only lack of pressure but a total lack of puck possession. Teams are cycling and getting shots from the circles while we struggle to enter the zone.

The last 2 games have been maddening to watch. And for the most part minus maybe a couple of games, this season has been almost unbearable to watch. It amazes me that a team with this much offensive talent can not put up goals if their lives depended on it. Even after wins I feel like this team just isn't going in the right direction.

We need some sort of change

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02-24-2013, 01:47 AM
  #303
NY Lito
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Umm, don't put words in my mouth.

I didn't say last year was pure luck, all I said was that it's not like Torts was doing the impossible or anything - all I'm saying is that if the team isn't responding to him, or isn't built for his system, yes, I'm going to start questioning whether or not he's the right option for this franchise moving forward. I've NEVER been a huge fan of Torts' coaching style. I like him more than a lot of other coaches, but I don't think the style of play he employs is right for our current roster.

Why does voicing this concern make me "suck" as a fan? Is it because you disagree with me? I don't give a **** if you disagree with me, disagree with me all you want, just don't belittle me or others like that, especially if you're not going to argue the points I've been bringing up with some actual analysis, not just "OMG ur so stoopid".
What the hell do you know about our current roster? It's been a handful of games. And when have we had our "complete" starting lineup together? How many games have we been fully healthy?

Torts has had no time nor luck with injuries to get this team playing well. Yet you'll say his system isn't right for the roster. Pretty sure no system is going to work with this many injuries and a smattering of rookies and AHLers in it.

And if you want to talk about putting words into people's mouths, I never said last year was the "pinnacle of great coaching." But guess what, it was a great job. Took a team of youngsters that was short on high-end offensive talent and took them to the ECF while finishing first in the East.

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02-24-2013, 02:03 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
What the hell do you know about our current roster? It's been a handful of games. And when have we had our "complete" starting lineup together? How many games have we been fully healthy?

Torts has had no time nor luck with injuries to get this team playing well. Yet you'll say his system isn't right for the roster. Pretty sure no system is going to work with this many injuries and a smattering of rookies and AHLers in it.
I know that we lost 4 very important grinders in Mitchell, Fedotenko, Prust, and Dubinsky. Players that fit Tortorella's system like a glove. They were replaced with players that don't really fit the grinding, cycling style, and most of our lines are not capable of playing that style. Kreider/Pyatt-Richards-Gaborik are incapable of cycling the puck well. Hagelin-Stepan-Nash are capable, but they're really the only line we have that is, and that line is good at everything. Powe-Halpern-Asham can, but they're going to play that way regardless of the system. For our current roster, he needs to open up the transition game more. He needs to utilize the offensive skill that this team has up front, this isn't the one-line team from last year. They have some legitimate offensive threats in their top-6, and this style really doesn't benefit them.

I'm not calling for the firing of Tortorella, not right this moment, at least. I'm completely fine with giving him time to see what he can do with a healthy roster. That being said, I still think he needs to change the offensive strategy, or at least tweak at it, because it's obvious that certain players are struggling with the style that we're trying to play. If he can do that, I'll be more than happy if he stays. There's a lot of things I like about Torts, but his stuborness is the thing that irks me the most, and it shows here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
And if you want to talk about putting words into people's mouths, I never said last year was the "pinnacle of great coaching." But guess what, it was a great job. Took a team of youngsters that was short on high-end offensive talent and took them to the ECF while finishing first in the East.
I'll give him credit, it was a great season, both for the team and for the coach. That being said, though, I really don't think what he did last year was anything truly "special" or surprising. We had a very good hockey team last year, a great collection of players playing at a high level. I know people loved to complain about their offensive capabilities, but they were still a top team in the league without a dominant offense. They had (and still have) a great defense and the best goaltender in the world. Even though the players up front weren't all stars, it was a good mix of grit and skill. The forward lineup changed drastically in the offseason, and through this season already. Adjustments need to be made with new players being added, different players.

JMO.

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02-24-2013, 02:03 AM
  #305
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As a Habs fan looking at Tort tonight, he looked defeated. Last year I remember when your team was not playing well, he got all riled up like a lion and would scream at the players to wake up(and it would work). He did not even attempt that it seems tonight. I was looking at the bench and he Tort had no passion, no life...like his team. It's as if they stopped listening to him and he doesn't give a f.

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02-24-2013, 02:27 AM
  #306
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He is super disrespectful i wouldn't want him as my couch firing up other teams doesn't make much sense really

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02-24-2013, 04:34 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
Let's dream a bit.
Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf are Rangers.

My hope would be that they put on the Rangers blue, skate out and do what they do.
Would that be a realistic expectation? Or, would 'Rangeritis' creep in, and that tandem, who we all know, without any doubt, are top level players, not become what was expected and be personna non grata two seasons later?

I've been a Rangers fan forever, seen them come and go, so my question is valid. And obviously not related to a particular coach.
Bringing in high priced free agents all the time is part of the problem.

Teams need time to gel. Players need time to get comfortable in NYC.

And, there's something to be said about an organization to focuses on grooming and developing their own prospects, and doing what they can (within reason) to keep good players around long-term. Loyalty and commitment to a player means a lot.

It seems like the Rangers were on the right track the last few years, but that run last year clouded everyone's judgement and the Rangers once again sold their soul for the "quick fix". Nothing against Nash, but tearing up one of the tightest dressing rooms for one guy almost never works.

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02-24-2013, 04:49 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
Bringing in high priced free agents all the time is part of the problem.

Teams need time to gel. Players need time to get comfortable in NYC.

And, there's something to be said about an organization to focuses on grooming and developing their own prospects, and doing what they can (within reason) to keep good players around long-term. Loyalty and commitment to a player means a lot.

It seems like the Rangers were on the right track the last few years, but that run last year clouded everyone's judgement and the Rangers once again sold their soul for the "quick fix". Nothing against Nash, but tearing up one of the tightest dressing rooms for one guy almost never works.
How the **** was trading Dubi and Artie a quick fix? How many years do we have to give these guys? You're talking out of your ass.

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02-24-2013, 04:55 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Vidic15 View Post
How the **** was trading Dubi and Artie a quick fix? How many years do we have to give these guys? You're talking out of your ass.
lol, acquiring the "savior" in Nash was the quick fix. Dubinsky may not have had the best stats, but his work ethic and hustle rubbed off on his teammates. Artismov still has the potential to boost his stats a bit. Plus, you're missing the culture int he dressing room - that HBO series last season showed just how special last year's team was; they genuinely were the closest team in the league last year, and it showed on the ice. You need a good blend of players for a successful team, not just an all-star roster.

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02-24-2013, 07:37 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
IMO, it's quite the opposite. This team has a lot of skilled players (Hagelin, Stepan, Gaborik, Nash, Kreider, Richards, Miller, Callahan), but they don't have a lot of gritty, in your face players. Most of those players aren't really "soft", outside of Gaborik and Richards, but they're not the type of players that will wreak havoc on teams' opposing D in the form of forechecking/cycling. They need to start setting up in the D zone, up through the neutral zone, and already have the puck under control as they enter the offensive zone. Set up off the rush, not off the dump and chase.

Total agreed al the way from Norway.

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02-24-2013, 07:58 AM
  #311
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Nash out is killing us. This doesn't excuse our lack of heart but he's capable of turning things around in a split second annd we lost a lot of grit and gell to acquire him. So, in turn, these past 3 games have been more brutal to watch than anything all season which makes us go a little over the top. Richards looks like a showgirl. He's humps defensively but when he has the puck he thinks he's ****ing Houdini. That S.O.B. needs a wake up call. We need our big boys to create. Gabby is here and there. Whatever, he's a sniper. We need guys creating FOR him. I see nothing being created out there. Those are the boys are the ones who are supposed give spark to the rest of the line up. I think a lot of our issue is the inability to make things happen offensively. Even last year. We grinded out a **** ton of games by getting dirty gols but we never really CREATED like some other teams with huge talent do so well. IMO, it has a lot to do with the coaching. We need someone back there who has a remotely creative mind and who sees the ice in the different light. The talent is there. The leadership is there. The grind and grit is there. Every one of them is smart enough and capable enough to open up some ice for the next guy. Torts and co. are probably the best in the league at developing boys into men but I can't figure out why, with all this talent, we can't score at least 2-3 goals a game. In the end, it always narrows down to the vision of the coaching staff. We do what we're taught to do and it may even look good in their eyes when they're watching tape but realistically, its just not working for us offensively. I don't think its heart. We have plenty of it. It boils down to our overall game plan. It needs change. With Torts's style in-check, is that change we need possible?

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02-24-2013, 08:07 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
lol, acquiring the "savior" in Nash was the quick fix. Dubinsky may not have had the best stats, but his work ethic and hustle rubbed off on his teammates. Artismov still has the potential to boost his stats a bit. Plus, you're missing the culture int he dressing room - that HBO series last season showed just how special last year's team was; they genuinely were the closest team in the league last year, and it showed on the ice. You need a good blend of players for a successful team, not just an all-star roster.
acquiring an all star talent like Nash was a move we had to make, esp for a player like Dubinsky, who essentially is 2nd-3rd line talent being overpaid. Anisimov is as enigmatic as they come. Even if we still has Erixon, he would not even be in the lineup...

I do agree that we turned over too many pieces in Prust, Mitchell, and Feds, but this wouldn't have made that much of an impact had we had a full training camp and preseason. all of the growing pains associated with new faces and youth being integrated into your lineup is taken care of with the right preparation.

The NYR couldn't hold back from making the Nash move for fear of a lockout, yet the worst case scenario happened to us, as far as chemistry and team preparation.

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02-24-2013, 08:21 AM
  #313
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So happy this thread is open again.

IMO, Torts is slamming square pegs into round holes. It's not working, and he's the one that needs to adjust, not the players.

1. Lindy Ruff
2. Peter Horachek
3. Larry Robinson

Any three of those guys I would take over Torts.

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02-24-2013, 09:14 AM
  #314
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His system is becoming downright painful to watch. Causes high blood pressure too.

Never any clean offensive zone entries. Never any nice passes. Hell, our defense sucks too right now.

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02-24-2013, 09:19 AM
  #315
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Never liked him. Wanted Laviolette when they fired Renney. I do have to admit that the team seemed to respond last year, however. Not sure how long his leash is with the injuries - tough to blame the coach with all the talent in the press box.

That said, I would love to see a coach that's less of an ******* and more willing to commit to an offensively oriented game, so if Slats is considering I'm in favor.

More importantly - if they fire Torts, will they fire Gernander in HFD as part of a package deal? Please?

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02-24-2013, 09:22 AM
  #316
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So happy this thread is open again.

IMO, Torts is slamming square pegs into round holes. It's not working, and he's the one that needs to adjust, not the players.
Bang on silverfish on the Square/Round comment...although I deleted your coaching choices . I'm not sure if Ruff is an answer for us . Maybe we better start looking for a more modern guy with a more up tempo style of game plan .

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02-24-2013, 10:02 AM
  #317
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The problem i see with Torts is he is a phoney in every sense of the word.. He preaches tuff in your face hockey yet he doesn't allow it to happen. He signs and trades for Torts guys which is fine as a coach should have the players he want's put he punishes them and you can see the effects he has on them ex. Richards looks like a beaten dog..
I warned many yrs ago that he would strip this team of it's physical toughness and we would end up be pushed around.. I don't want to hear anyone question this fact in the enforcer /goon world i have a ton of connections and know these players personally.. Colton Orr tho limited played a effective shut down game under Renney and was in the head of players like Crosby and Ovch. Yet Torts never even wanted him and Sather granted his wishes and he was not offered a deal and gone.. Then Brashear is signed for what reason i will ever know as he was washed up and coming off a KO that almost killed his career. He was so beaten down by Torts and his punishments that he would have killed him if could have gotten away with it, then you slowly see the Rangers sign Rupp a torts guy can play and be tough. nice knowing ya kid hello Com Pow Chicken**** Powe and he is nearly killed and gone. oh by the way nice job of allowing MCD to get crushed with no one going near the guy who did it.Does that sound like we heard it before under torts? yea in Calgary with Drury !!! Please don't tell me Torts had Prust . Prust was a throw in that way exceeded his value in NY be became a fan favorite and well deserved as he did everything possible to win.. The islanders have Boulton/Martin/Carkner The Flyers any combo of 3 goons Pens have guys that will throw down Boston is tough 1-24 on the roster we need to win series vs these teams to make the playoffs and they out muscle and push the Rangers around it is a joke.. Torts keep screaming and yelling and being a bully i guess it is the fastest way to early tee times.

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02-24-2013, 11:49 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
The problem i see with Torts is he is a phoney in every sense of the word.. He preaches tuff in your face hockey yet he doesn't allow it to happen. He signs and trades for Torts guys which is fine as a coach should have the players he want's put he punishes them and you can see the effects he has on them ex. Richards looks like a beaten dog..
I warned many yrs ago that he would strip this team of it's physical toughness and we would end up be pushed around.. I don't want to hear anyone question this fact in the enforcer /goon world i have a ton of connections and know these players personally.. Colton Orr tho limited played a effective shut down game under Renney and was in the head of players like Crosby and Ovch. Yet Torts never even wanted him and Sather granted his wishes and he was not offered a deal and gone.. Then Brashear is signed for what reason i will ever know as he was washed up and coming off a KO that almost killed his career. He was so beaten down by Torts and his punishments that he would have killed him if could have gotten away with it, then you slowly see the Rangers sign Rupp a torts guy can play and be tough. nice knowing ya kid hello Com Pow Chicken**** Powe and he is nearly killed and gone. oh by the way nice job of allowing MCD to get crushed with no one going near the guy who did it.Does that sound like we heard it before under torts? yea in Calgary with Drury !!! Please don't tell me Torts had Prust . Prust was a throw in that way exceeded his value in NY be became a fan favorite and well deserved as he did everything possible to win.. The islanders have Boulton/Martin/Carkner The Flyers any combo of 3 goons Pens have guys that will throw down Boston is tough 1-24 on the roster we need to win series vs these teams to make the playoffs and they out muscle and push the Rangers around it is a joke.. Torts keep screaming and yelling and being a bully i guess it is the fastest way to early tee times.
-The coach doesn't sign and trade for anyone.
-Richards looks awful because he's not in shape and has no confidence in his game. It has absolutely nothing to do with being "beaten" by Torts. He wasn't ready to start an NHL season. It's obvious.
-Colton Orr was never, ever in the heads of Crosbys and OVs - I don't care what anybody told you.
-Brashear sucked, not because of being punished by Torts, but because he was over the hill and past the point of being an effective NHL player.
-"Chicken**** Powe" did more in terms of being an effective player in a week or so than Rupp did in a year+.
- While it's definitely crappy that nobody came to defend McD, I have a hard time beliveing its because Torts told them not to. When anything goes wrong, the first reaction around here is people blaming Torts for it. Maybe he told them not to retaliate but I've seen no proof of that and I don't see a team that stands up for one another this season regardless of what Torts may or may not have said about a specific incident.
-Torts' "screaming and yelling and being a bully" led to this team winning 50+ games last year and advancing to the ECF. Real early tee times.

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02-24-2013, 12:43 PM
  #319
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I knew people would disagree but your 100% wrong coaching as a bully wears out fast , motivation and knowing who to kick and who to cuddle makes. A great coach. If Richards in just out of shape we are 18 games into the season wtf it take 40 games to get in shape ? Gabby scores. Everywhere but ny ? I coach has a ton to say about players that are kept or not signed if you don't know that I am sorry

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02-24-2013, 01:02 PM
  #320
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I knew people would disagree but your 100% wrong coaching as a bully wears out fast , motivation and knowing who to kick and who to cuddle makes. A great coach. If Richards in just out of shape we are 18 games into the season wtf it take 40 games to get in shape ? Gabby scores. Everywhere but ny ? I coach has a ton to say about players that are kept or not signed if you don't know that I am sorry
How does anyone know he coaches like a bully? Because he's curt with the media?

That's my exact point throughout this entire thread. People point to whatever part of the team bothers them, blame Torts, and then everyone else piles on while nobody takes a second to think about whether the original blame was put in the right place. Richards sucks? Must be Torts. Guys aren't playing creatively? Must that Torts told them not to do anything but dump and chase. Nobody is standing up for each other? Must be that Torts told them not to fight etc. etc. etc. Maybe it's him. Maybe it's not. These judgements are almost entirely uninformed speculation though and they shouldn't be stated as fact like they currently are.

Based on what we've actually seen in terms of how players TOI has been adjusted and how Torts has spoken about the players individually - he knows who to kick and who to cuddle in some cases. Hags went from whipping boy to the most effective forward real quick, seemingly in part because he was "kicked." McD, whenever he's had an off game or a stretch of fighting the puck, has never, ever been called out. Hank is almost never blamed for anything. Those guys carry the team and they're "cuddled" for it while guys who don't pull their weight regularly aren't.

What if it takes Richards 40 games to get into shape? That sucks. I'm not arguing that. But that doesn't mean that Torts is "beating" him into sucking like you said. It means he's out of shape.

Gabby scores everywhere but NY? Check out his stats again and get back to me on that.

Yeah, a coach has a lot to say about transactions but the GM makes them, and you don't blame the coach for the GM listening to him. The GM deserves the blame for his own job performance. Again, perfect example of blaming Torts for everything before really thinking about it. From the last two posts, you went from sayings its his fault that Richards is playing poorly and the personel moves are solely his decision to saying that Richards is out of shape and the coach has "a ton to say" about moves. These are examples of the kind of thing that goes on around here all the time.

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02-24-2013, 02:15 PM
  #321
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As a Habs fan looking at Tort tonight, he looked defeated. Last year I remember when your team was not playing well, he got all riled up like a lion and would scream at the players to wake up(and it would work). He did not even attempt that it seems tonight. I was looking at the bench and he Tort had no passion, no life...like his team. It's as if they stopped listening to him and he doesn't give a f.
I remember seeing Torts screaming at Gilroy and Richards and at the referee and his post-game interview rant against Pacc was pure Tortorellism, if you ask me.

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02-24-2013, 02:20 PM
  #322
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The question in my mind is, why people keep telling short training camp is one excuse for this poor performance?

It was a short training camp for every single team in NHL. That is not an excuse of any kind.

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02-24-2013, 02:27 PM
  #323
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Torts sets the tone with the training camp like few other coaches. Teams who are playing a more defensive/grinding style (Phoenix, L.A, Nashville) have been struggling a little more than all-out offensive juggernauts (Chicago, Pittsburgh, Anaheim).

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02-24-2013, 02:50 PM
  #324
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Training Camp isnt an excuse. Every team dealt with the same ****.

These players were going at it well before the season even started. They knew.

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02-24-2013, 03:26 PM
  #325
ImIdaho
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Right about now, I want to see Torts..receive a stunner from Stone Cold.

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