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HNIC shows new potential alignment with 16 teams in "east" groupings

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02-24-2013, 03:46 PM
  #251
Jag68Sid87
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Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
I'm not a Jets fan, but I would think the Pros of joining a Central conference/division would outweigh the Pros of playing in the same group as Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver.

Other than the Canadian media coverage, what other benefits are there for Jets fans to go with the Western Canadian teams?
What is bigger than Canadian media coverage in hockey? No, seriously.

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02-24-2013, 03:49 PM
  #252
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A note on Exp Teams:
I am not a fan. I don't think further dilution of talen is a good plan.
Lots of players are staying in Europe and Russia. If they were all coming here in droves and there was no KHL, I may feel differently, but that is not the case.
I'd take a guess that the league having an extra $100 million or so to spend on player salaries would go a long way towards greasing the wheels to bring those European and Russians back. To begin with a number of them were squeezed out in the first place because of the cap spending limits.

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02-24-2013, 03:50 PM
  #253
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I don't get this and why people are in favor of ruining the competitive balance of the playoffs

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02-24-2013, 03:51 PM
  #254
MuckOG
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
What is bigger than Canadian media coverage in hockey? No, seriously.
So that's it???

How about earlier game start/finish times? Divisional rivals within driving distance?

Besides, I doubt that the all-powerful Canadian media would ignore Winnipeg if they were in the Central. It's not like they still wouldn't be playing all the other Canadian teams at least twice each season.

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02-24-2013, 03:51 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Toomuts View Post
From my perspective no, I believe rivalries are built from playoff series not location which this model thrives on.

I'm not concerned about HNIC cause either way they put Winnipeg at the bottom of the Canadian teams and with this proposal we will be on NBC more to get the "exposure" some others are worried about. Also I prefer TSNJETS anyways, way better coverage.

Like that we will get Chicago/Toews six times a year.

But this is my perspective others feel much different but hey Winnipeg has an NHL team how can we complain...
No matter what division you're in, you'll always be on HNIC more than NBC, that's for sure.

You're not getting any NBC 'exposure', no matter where you are. The first time you'll see the Jets on NBC is when they reach the Stanley Cup playoffs. Unless you mean NBC Sports Network, which will still be limited to once you make the playoffs.

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02-24-2013, 03:51 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
This is how I would like to see it set up (including bringing back the old names)....

Columbus (12pts)



I think this structure makes a far better geographical sense.
This blows your whole theory. Columbus would play all of their divisional games outside of their time zone and all of their in conference games would be two or more time zones away when every team in the other conference is in their time zone. Makes no sense to strand Columbus out in the West.

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02-24-2013, 03:53 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
So that's it???

How about earlier game start/finish times? Divisional rivals within driving distance?

Besides, I doubt that the all-powerful Canadian media would ignore Winnipeg if they were in the Central. It's not like they still wouldn't be playing all the other Canadian teams at least twice each season.
Agree to disagree. It's a disaster for Winnipeg, imo.

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02-24-2013, 03:57 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Detroit and Columbus still being in Central Division was never quoted anywhere as being a travel issue for the PA. And as has been pointed out, Detroit, Chicago, Nashville, St Louis, and Minnesota http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1460 all had their travel greatly reduced with the previous proposal. The specific travel issue that had been mentioned was in relation to what was preceived as unnecessary distance for the Florida teams being part of the NE.

And with respect to the Wildcard idea, if that's the key to getting the PA's acceptance, well that could've just as easily have been adapted to the previous realignment proposal.

I'm only looking for sense, otherwise I don't see the point in debating this or any topic, if there's no sense to it.
On the topic of sense, I'm rather surprised you didn't have more to say re regarding my speculation that the Detroit move is in part to placate people that were unhappy before. If the "unhappy 4" were Toronto, Montreal, Florida, and Tampa bay, giving them Detroit makes a lot of sense. Compare that to whom a Detroit move would possibly be undesirable:

Chicago: May be more indifferent than you think. Compared to what is currently in use, even with less Detroit this is still a massive improvement for them. Wirtz May be inclined to play along rather than jeopardize it. Chicago can certainly self sustain.

Nashville and st. Louis: the two big whiners in this, most likely. They're far too reliant on Detroit for their own success.

Columbus: if Detroit goes, they go. And the Atlantic teams should be as much if not more of a boon to them than Detroit plus Chicago. The other current central teams are irrelevant to their financial success.

Winnipeg: too busy being happy about having a team, and too busy being sold out the next few years.

Minnesota: might care, and powerful owner, but see Chicago. I suspect Leopold prefers the other gains to Detroit.

Colorado: wouldn't mind Detroit, but also doesn't mind not seeing any etz or ptz teams.

Dallas: see Colorado. They're one of the biggest winners, too much at stake to protest lack of Detroit.

So to me it looks like Toronto and Montreal (plus maybe the two Florida teams) vs two not very powerful Midwest teams (plus maybe a couple others of the same mold). I know who wins that battle.

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02-24-2013, 03:59 PM
  #259
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Yeah I was more or less thinking the same thing when I saw the new proposed division realignments. It hurts Quebec's chances and kind of limits Phoenix being able to move East, but that second Toronto team in the Central division makes a lot of sense, then throw another expansion team in Seattle to balance out the Pacific division and everything's even.

If you do go to Quebec you're pretty much going to have to move Columbus back to the central, which sucks for them.
True, but they can't base things on how it might impact future expansion/relocation. No guarantee Quebec ever gets a team regardless of alignment. I know they are building an arena, but that doesn't guarantee anything. KC has an arena and was rumored to be getting a team until the man who wanted to bring a team there went to jail. Not saying the same thing would happen to the Quebec leader, but who knows.

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02-24-2013, 04:05 PM
  #260
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I don't like this...

Seattle has a VERY slim chance of working.... They won't even be the primary tennants of the new building, which hasn't even broken ground yet, meanwhile Quebec's arena will be 12 months into the process of building by the time they do break ground in Seattle... Lastly, There has been TOO much talk of seattle, which leads me to believe that this entire relocation to seattle will never happen...
1. Who cares they won't be the primary tenant? Many NHL teams share arenas with nba teams. Not sure what the point of this issue

2. Quebec is 12 months ahead, but both are scheduled to be ready by the start of the 15-16 reason, another non issue

Quote:
I still see Hartford as a viable market in the next 3 years...

Lastly, Mr Bettman does NOT want an NHL team playing in Key Arena..
3. Ahh there it is, Hartford supporter.

4. Link? There has been reports that the NHL would be okay with that. They let the yotes play in American west arena.

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02-24-2013, 04:06 PM
  #261
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The problem is expansion IS coming. I hope everybody accepts that by now. The two best expansion locations by a country mile are Quebec City and Markham (Toronto2). NO U.S. team should be used for expansion. Expansion teams usually SUCK early. You want Canadian teams for that. The fans will get upset but still flock the arenas. Sucking will be greeted with apathy, otherwise. You definitely don't want that. If Phoenix has to go, then move it to Seattle. And forget about trying to forcefeed other markets in the U.S. Geography is a terrible argument to bring in both Seattle and Portland over Quebec City or Markham.

THAT is why we have to stop bringing Western Conference teams into the Eastern Conference. Winnipeg is coming to the Western Conference, which is good, but two more Eastern teams are on the way. That's mainly why Detroit needs to stay in the West. Aside from the fact they have now established themselves in the Western Conference and identified as such. It's like trading your captain. You don't trade your captain. Well, you don't move the captain of the Western Conference to the East.

So, perhaps some outside-the-box thinking is required here to make this thing work. Because if this new realignment and Detroit's demands force the league to NOT expand to Quebec City and Markham, then they'd only be shooting themselves in the foot.

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02-24-2013, 04:06 PM
  #262
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On the topic of sense, I'm rather surprised you didn't have more to say re regarding my speculation that the Detroit move is in part to placate people that were unhappy before. If the "unhappy 4" were Toronto, Montreal, Florida, and Tampa bay, giving them Detroit makes a lot of sense. Compare that to whom a Detroit move would possibly be undesirable:

Chicago: May be more indifferent than you think. Compared to what is currently in use, even with less Detroit this is still a massive improvement for them. Wirtz May be inclined to play along rather than jeopardize it. Chicago can certainly self sustain.

Nashville and st. Louis: the two big whiners in this, most likely. They're far too reliant on Detroit for their own success.

Columbus: if Detroit goes, they go. And the Atlantic teams should be as much if not more of a boon to them than Detroit plus Chicago. The other current central teams are irrelevant to their financial success.

Winnipeg: too busy being happy about having a team, and too busy being sold out the next few years.

Minnesota: might care, and powerful owner, but see Chicago. I suspect Leopold prefers the other gains to Detroit.

Colorado: wouldn't mind Detroit, but also doesn't mind not seeing any etz or ptz teams.

Dallas: see Colorado. They're one of the biggest winners, too much at stake to protest lack of Detroit.

So to me it looks like Toronto and Montreal (plus maybe the two Florida teams) vs two not very powerful Midwest teams (plus maybe a couple others of the same mold). I know who wins that battle.
Just on this note, I believe the unhappy four were the Florida teams, Montreal, and the Rangers. So Toronto didn't need any "appeasing".

And to once again repeat the other point: The previous proposal wasn't rejected because 4 teams voted against it.

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02-24-2013, 04:06 PM
  #263
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Agree to disagree. It's a disaster for Winnipeg, imo.
Considering they are sold out for the next few years with the commitments the STH had to sign, and their waiting list, I don't think it will matter.

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02-24-2013, 04:09 PM
  #264
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Why bother with 4 Divisions and 2 Conferences? No way one can even out the divisions with 15 teams in each conference. Why not just make 2 conferences with 15 teams each and let that be it?

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02-24-2013, 04:11 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The problem is expansion IS coming. I hope everybody accepts that by now. The two best expansion locations by a country mile are Quebec City and Markham (Toronto2). NO U.S. team should be used for expansion. Expansion teams usually SUCK early. You want Canadian teams for that. The fans will get upset but still flock the arenas. Sucking will be greeted with apathy, otherwise. You definitely don't want that. If Phoenix has to go, then move it to Seattle. And forget about trying to forcefeed other markets in the U.S. Geography is a terrible argument to bring in both Seattle and Portland over Quebec City or Markham.

THAT is why we have to stop bringing Western Conference teams into the Eastern Conference. Winnipeg is coming to the Western Conference, which is good, but two more Eastern teams are on the way. That's mainly why Detroit needs to stay in the West. Aside from the fact they have no established themselves in the Western Conference and identified as such. It's like trading your captain. You don't trade your captain. Well, you don't move the captain of the Western Conference to the East.

So, perhaps some outside-the-box thinking is required here to make this thing work. Because if this new realignment and Detroit's demands force the league to NOT expand to Quebec City and Markham, then they'd only be shooting themselves in the foot.
When (or if) expansion happens, they can always do another re-alignment, like they have done many times in the past. I don't think it makes sense to consider that now for this proposal when there is nothing imminent in terms of relocation or expansion.

No problem!

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02-24-2013, 04:12 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
When (or if) expansion happens, they can always do another re-alignment, like they have done many times in the past. I don't think it makes sense to consider that now for this proposal when there is nothing imminent in terms of relocation or expansion.

No problem!
I guess I'm naive, because I believe expansion is imminent (at least the announcement).

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02-24-2013, 04:14 PM
  #267
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Considering they are sold out for the next few years with the commitments the STH had to sign, and their waiting list, I don't think it will matter.
Exactly...and if they play a home and home against every other Canadian team, there will be 12 opportunities to schedule a Jets vs. [Canadian team] for HNIC.

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02-24-2013, 04:14 PM
  #268
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I still think that the NHL would be better off having 15 teams in the East and 15 teams in the West:



Is that so hard, guys?

And an alternative that keeps the NYC-area and Pennsylvania teams together:


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02-24-2013, 04:15 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I guess I'm naive, because I believe expansion is imminent (at least the announcement).
If it were truly immiment, then don't you think it would've been reflected in this plan???

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02-24-2013, 04:16 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The problem is expansion IS coming. I hope everybody accepts that by now. The two best expansion locations by a country mile are Quebec City and Markham (Toronto2). NO U.S. team should be used for expansion. Expansion teams usually SUCK early. You want Canadian teams for that. The fans will get upset but still flock the arenas. Sucking will be greeted with apathy, otherwise. You definitely don't want that. If Phoenix has to go, then move it to Seattle. And forget about trying to forcefeed other markets in the U.S. Geography is a terrible argument to bring in both Seattle and Portland over Quebec City or Markham.

THAT is why we have to stop bringing Western Conference teams into the Eastern Conference. Winnipeg is coming to the Western Conference, which is good, but two more Eastern teams are on the way. That's mainly why Detroit needs to stay in the West. Aside from the fact they have now established themselves in the Western Conference and identified as such. It's like trading your captain. You don't trade your captain. Well, you don't move the captain of the Western Conference to the East.

So, perhaps some outside-the-box thinking is required here to make this thing work. Because if this new realignment and Detroit's demands force the league to NOT expand to Quebec City and Markham, then they'd only be shooting themselves in the foot.
I have my suspicions that QC or Markham are not in the league's current plans for expansion. At this point, I think Seattle, Houston, and KC are all favored (with one of those potentially being a relo option for Phoenix). The present alignment proposal may be a hint at that. I strongly suspect the BoG and particularly the US media powers within are eyeing large untapped US markets west of the Mississippi.

QC or Markham (Definitely not both) will be a fallback option if something doesn't pan out, and only for a very large expansion fee. Both won't happen; there's no way in hell the US media powers allow greater than 1/4 the league be Canadian teams at this point.

Personally, I'd like to see a Quebec team, but I think it's much less of an option than some people are hoping. They're looking like a tertiary option.

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02-24-2013, 04:22 PM
  #271
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Certainly a kick in the teeth for supporters of expansion/relocation to Quebec City or another eastern Canadian market. Unless they're just doing this to placate Detroit into finally making good on their "promise" only to need to turn around and put Detroit back in Chicago's division out of necessity.

Also, clearly a sign that the NHL thinks that Chicago's resurgent road draw is here to stay.

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02-24-2013, 04:26 PM
  #272
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If it were truly immiment, then don't you think it would've been reflected in this plan???
Not yet. I think they want to get this phase of realignment out of the way first. Then IMO have PHX settle either way. After that expansion can be announced with 4 conferences it will be more straight forward to move teams east-west around of vv.

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02-24-2013, 04:34 PM
  #273
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If I was the league I'd keep the divisions as they are right but switch Nashville and Winnipeg from the Southeast to the Central and vice versa. Then in a year or 2 see what happens with Phoenix and/or expansion and then do a bigger realignment.

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02-24-2013, 04:35 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
I have my suspicions that QC or Markham are not in the league's current plans for expansion. At this point, I think Seattle, Houston, and KC are all favored (with one of those potentially being a relo option for Phoenix). The present alignment proposal may be a hint at that. I strongly suspect the BoG and particularly the US media powers within are eyeing large untapped US markets west of the Mississippi.

QC or Markham (Definitely not both) will be a fallback option if something doesn't pan out, and only for a very large expansion fee. Both won't happen; there's no way in hell the US media powers allow greater than 1/4 the league be Canadian teams at this point.

Personally, I'd like to see a Quebec team, but I think it's much less of an option than some people are hoping. They're looking like a tertiary option.
I hope you're wrong. You might be right, though, but I hope you're wrong. Expansion to the U.S. is a horrendous idea.

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02-24-2013, 04:39 PM
  #275
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If I was the league I'd keep the divisions as they are right but switch Nashville and Winnipeg from the Southeast to the Central and vice versa. Then in a year or 2 see what happens with Phoenix and/or expansion and then do a bigger realignment.
Well, THANK GAWD you're not the league!!!


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