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The 2013 Draft Thread: Not Winnin' For #(??)...

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02-24-2013, 04:39 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
That's a load of crap imo, the guy is a character player with high hockey IQ, the biggest question that ive seen is his skating which isn't a big deal. He won't be the most flashy guy offensively but he is very effective none the less.

Ive stood beside some scouts at the Jack quite often and honestly couldn't believe some of the things they were saying about some players, you wonder how some of the got a job with an NHL team..

I agree with you on Jones though, I am not really sure what separates him from a guy like Nurse besides maturity. I would still take him top 3 though based on what others have said, ive never seen him play with Portland though.

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02-24-2013, 04:58 PM
  #502
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Drouin looked dominant today

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02-24-2013, 05:01 PM
  #503
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42GP, 93 points.
That projects to 182 points over an 82 game season

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02-24-2013, 05:07 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
Afino-Drouin.

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02-24-2013, 05:51 PM
  #505
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God damnnnn Drouin was good today.

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02-24-2013, 05:57 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
That's a load of crap imo, the guy is a character player with high hockey IQ, the biggest question that ive seen is his skating which isn't a big deal. He won't be the most flashy guy offensively but he is very effective none the less.

Ive stood beside some scouts at the Jack quite often and honestly couldn't believe some of the things they were saying about some players, you wonder how some of the got a job with an NHL team..
If he was really committed, he'd be able to lead his crappy team that has the talent level to probably only be a middling team in the OJHL to the playoffs, obviously.

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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Afino-Drouin.
Having been a booster of Drouin for nearly two years now, I can say that he has a fire that makes him special.
He has the hands and the IQ, but he wants to make a difference and he has an edge to him.
He's not going to blow anyone up, but he's not afraid to get dirty and push back.
It's what sets him apart from just about all of the other smaller, skilled forwards out there.

The same can't be said for Max.

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02-24-2013, 06:33 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
If he was really committed, he'd be able to lead his crappy team that has the talent level to probably only be a middling team in the OJHL to the playoffs, obviously.

Having been a booster of Drouin for nearly two years now, I can say that he has a fire that makes him special.
He has the hands and the IQ, but he wants to make a difference and he has an edge to him.
He's not going to blow anyone up, but he's not afraid to get dirty and push back.
It's what sets him apart from just about all of the other smaller, skilled forwards out there.

The same can't be said for Max.
Actually a lot of it can. Max played with an edge and wasn't afraid to push back.... had great hands ..skated like the wind.

IQ and fire? Doesnt really fit Max...but the rest does.

Anyways...I was only being a smartass. Ive never watched the kid.

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02-24-2013, 06:48 PM
  #508
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While I love seeing guys doing this because it means they have skill and creativity, the fact is that this almost never happens in the NHL. Guys play the body and don't let you stickhandle around like that highlight. Unless you're playing against the Sabres of course.

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02-24-2013, 06:55 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
While I love seeing guys doing this because it means they have skill and creativity, the fact is that this almost never happens in the NHL. Guys play the body and don't let you stickhandle around like that highlight. Unless you're playing against the Sabres of course.
This reminds me of when hall was being drafted and everyone said he'd get shutdown by nhl D. Didn't really happen

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02-24-2013, 08:10 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
While I love seeing guys doing this because it means they have skill and creativity, the fact is that this almost never happens in the NHL. Guys play the body and don't let you stickhandle around like that highlight. Unless you're playing against the Sabres of course.
I would bet he will be able to do some pretty unbelievable things with the puck in the NHL, he has that much talent that he will undress defenders at the NHL level.

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02-24-2013, 08:19 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Actually a lot of it can. Max played with an edge and wasn't afraid to push back.... had great hands ..skated like the wind.

IQ and fire? Doesnt really fit Max...but the rest does.

Anyways...I was only being a smartass. Ive never watched the kid.
I think Max would have been content to just zoom around out there with the puck.

Drouin, on the other hand, isn't just flash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
While I love seeing guys doing this because it means they have skill and creativity, the fact is that this almost never happens in the NHL. Guys play the body and don't let you stickhandle around like that highlight. Unless you're playing against the Sabres of course.
He's incredibly elusive and if "5'11" Pat Kane can do the same type of thing, "5'11 and maybe still growing" (has grown nearly four inches in two years) Drouin will be fine.

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02-24-2013, 08:29 PM
  #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
While I love seeing guys doing this because it means they have skill and creativity, the fact is that this almost never happens in the NHL. Guys play the body and don't let you stickhandle around like that highlight. Unless you're playing against the Sabres of course.
Guys can and do make moves like this in the NHL, it's just not too common. It's certainly not common to be able to do it from set zone play like we saw here, but once you get a guy a bit out of position, you can fake him out when he's overcompensating. I have no doubt you'll see Drouin do some amazing things at the NHL level.

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02-24-2013, 08:31 PM
  #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
I think Max would have been content to just zoom around out there with the puck.

Drouin, on the other hand, isn't just flash.

He's incredibly elusive and if "5'11" Pat Kane can do the same type of thing, "5'11 and maybe still growing" (has grown nearly four inches in two years) Drouin will be fine.
Funny, I was just thinking about Kane in relationship to another player the other day (may even have been Drouin). When I think of guys who are listed around 5'10-6', I think of how Kane rarely looks like a midget out there. He's incredibly shifty and not a toothpick. That listed height may be considered small, but I don't think there's much practical difference between 5'11 and 6'1 so long as you're talented and have some muscle.

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02-25-2013, 05:19 AM
  #514
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Drouin is really making a case for #1 overall, kid just has insane ability and a work ethic / tenacity to match.

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02-25-2013, 08:51 AM
  #515
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Drouin's not going no. 1. Go take a look at Ennis' Medicine Hat highlights. He made kids look like it was their first day on skates. It didn't mean he was going to be better than Stamkos. Seth Jones is the clear no. 1 in my book, and I think you could make a case for several others to go ahead of Drouin so that he slipped out of the top 5.

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02-25-2013, 08:54 AM
  #516
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Barkov is putting up really impressive numbers. 44 pts in 48 games in SM-liiga for a 17 yr old who, if he was born two weeks later, wouldn't be eligible until the 2014 draft. That's pretty incredible.

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02-25-2013, 09:37 AM
  #517
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Drouin has to get a really long look. The question could be will he be on the board when the Sabres pick....

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02-25-2013, 09:45 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Drouin's not going no. 1. Go take a look at Ennis' Medicine Hat highlights. He made kids look like it was their first day on skates. It didn't mean he was going to be better than Stamkos. Seth Jones is the clear no. 1 in my book, and I think you could make a case for several others to go ahead of Drouin so that he slipped out of the top 5.
go look at Patrick Kane because that what Drouin will be, not Tyler Ennis.

I would be pretty shocked if he went #1 aswell but I would be suprised if it isn't MacKinnon, Jones, and Drouin as the top 3 guys drafted.

Drouin is the type of player that will revitalize a franchise the same way Kane did in Chicago, he will see seats.

Drouin would make the Sabres a pretty exciting team to watch.

Their are very few comparisons between Ennis and Drouin


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02-25-2013, 09:50 AM
  #519
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Funny, I was just thinking about Kane in relationship to another player the other day (may even have been Drouin). When I think of guys who are listed around 5'10-6', I think of how Kane rarely looks like a midget out there. He's incredibly shifty and not a toothpick. That listed height may be considered small, but I don't think there's much practical difference between 5'11 and 6'1 so long as you're talented and have some muscle.
I think I remember reading that the league average was around 6' or 6'1, so it's not a problem for players like Kane to succeed as long as they have the intelligence to do so.
Physical advantages are nice, but if I'm looking for a difference maker and have to choose between an average sized player who is incredibly intelligent and a bigger player that's not the smartest, I'm going with the former.
It's why our best current player is 5'11, our best player ever was 6'1 and had almost no standout physical abilities, and why there are so many players in our game that were forgotten or cut at one point or another (guys that were short and grew like Giroux, guys that were short and never grew like Conacher and Ennis, guys with average size and little to no athletic ability like Stepan).

Also on this topic, I recently learned that the average height and weight in the Q is right around the NHL.
Just thought I'd throw that out there for those that buy into what hacks like Jack Parker say about the league being filled with 15 year old midgets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SECRET SQUIRREL View Post
Drouin is really making a case for #1 overall, kid just has insane ability and a work ethic / tenacity to match.
As much as I like him, I don't think he goes first and I think it'd be in his best interest not to.
I don't think he'll go first because ultimately, I don't know if his ceiling that much higher than a player like MacKinnon.
I see them as different players with similar ceilings, but MacKinnon brings more to the table right now and is more likely to reach his upside.
If Drouin is developed properly though, I think he can be a very similar player.

The development part is why I don't think it'd be in his best interest to go first.
If he goes a bit lower, even second, there's less pressure for him to immediately be a lock to play in the NHL.
Personally, I've always envisioned him staying another year or two in junior transitioning to center while maturing physically like almost all players do at that age.
If he does make that transition, which I believe he can due to the fact that he previously played the position (hasn't since 2011, though) and his smarts and style, I think his value ultimately goes up.

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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Drouin's not going no. 1. Go take a look at Ennis' Medicine Hat highlights. He made kids look like it was their first day on skates. It didn't mean he was going to be better than Stamkos. Seth Jones is the clear no. 1 in my book, and I think you could make a case for several others to go ahead of Drouin so that he slipped out of the top 5.
Funny, you constantly pimp Ennis and you're now using him to knock other players.

There's a few differences between the two, playing style and size being the two most notable.
Ennis is a waterbug type, whereas Drouin is a Datsyuk/Nugent-Hopkins type.

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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Barkov is putting up really impressive numbers. 44 pts in 48 games in SM-liiga for a 17 yr old who, if he was born two weeks later, wouldn't be eligible until the 2014 draft. That's pretty incredible.
Funny to think back to September when TSN dropped him because of "questions about his offensive upside", yet he's now produced at an unprecedented rate and has done so through a combination of hard work and pure skill.

Sometimes you can't help but wonder about some scouts.

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02-25-2013, 10:20 AM
  #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
I think I remember reading that the league average was around 6' or 6'1, so it's not a problem for players like Kane to succeed as long as they have the intelligence to do so.
Physical advantages are nice, but if I'm looking for a difference maker and have to choose between an average sized player who is incredibly intelligent and a bigger player that's not the smartest, I'm going with the former.
It's why our best current player is 5'11, our best player ever was 6'1 and had almost no standout physical abilities, and why there are so many players in our game that were forgotten or cut at one point or another (guys that were short and grew like Giroux, guys that were short and never grew like Conacher and Ennis, guys with average size and little to no athletic ability like Stepan).

Also on this topic, I recently learned that the average height and weight in the Q is right around the NHL.
Just thought I'd throw that out there for those that buy into what hacks like Jack Parker say about the league being filled with 15 year old midgets.

As much as I like him, I don't think he goes first and I think it'd be in his best interest not to.
I don't think he'll go first because ultimately, I don't know if his ceiling that much higher than a player like MacKinnon.
I see them as different players with similar ceilings, but MacKinnon brings more to the table right now and is more likely to reach his upside.
If Drouin is developed properly though, I think he can be a very similar player.

The development part is why I don't think it'd be in his best interest to go first.
If he goes a bit lower, even second, there's less pressure for him to immediately be a lock to play in the NHL.
Personally, I've always envisioned him staying another year or two in junior transitioning to center while maturing physically like almost all players do at that age.
If he does make that transition, which I believe he can due to the fact that he previously played the position (hasn't since 2011, though) and his smarts and style, I think his value ultimately goes up.

Funny, you constantly pimp Ennis and you're now using him to knock other players.

There's a few differences between the two, playing style and size being the two most notable.
Ennis is a waterbug type, whereas Drouin is a Datsyuk/Nugent-Hopkins type.

Funny to think back to September when TSN dropped him because of "questions about his offensive upside", yet he's now produced at an unprecedented rate and has done so through a combination of hard work and pure skill.

Sometimes you can't help but wonder about some scouts.
I pimp Ennis in regards to his comparables, Hodgson, ROR, Gagner, etc. I think he is part of the solution around here, not the problem. But you'd have to be an idiot to put him on an elite level as of now, maybe he can get there, but it's a ways off as of now. It would be hard to look at the 2008 draft and put him in the top 10, let alone the top 5 or 1, which is what we are talking about with Drouin.

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02-25-2013, 11:03 AM
  #521
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I'm hoping for a top-5 pick, a second 1st rounder (somehow, just figure it out, Darcy), and at least four picks in the top-45 or 50 picks. This is draft is going to be extremely important, even moreso than most.

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02-25-2013, 11:11 AM
  #522
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I'm hoping for a top-5 pick, a second 1st rounder (somehow, just figure it out, Darcy), and at least four picks in the top-45 or 50 picks. This is draft is going to be extremely important, even moreso than most.
Would people consider trading the Miller, Vanek, Pominville, Stafford remaining "rochester" core if it meant getting more picks?

Imagine trading Vanek + to Columbus and taking MacKinnon and Drouin 1-2 overall

Almost like the Sedins?

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02-25-2013, 11:22 AM
  #523
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Would people consider trading the Miller, Vanek, Pominville, Stafford remaining "rochester" core if it meant getting more picks?

Imagine trading Vanek + to Columbus and taking MacKinnon and Drouin 1-2 overall

Almost like the Sedins?
except no team in their right mind is going to give up that high of a pick for 26/21/29/30

you could likely get a mid 1st++

I think you may be able to lure CGY 1st if they are in a playoff hunt.

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02-25-2013, 11:29 AM
  #524
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I pimp Ennis in regards to his comparables, Hodgson, ROR, Gagner, etc. I think he is part of the solution around here, not the problem. But you'd have to be an idiot to put him on an elite level as of now, maybe he can get there, but it's a ways off as of now. It would be hard to look at the 2008 draft and put him in the top 10, let alone the top 5 or 1, which is what we are talking about with Drouin.
That would be a reasonable argument if Drouin and Ennis were the same type of player, but they're not.

For proof that scouts acknowledge that there's a big difference, look no further than Nic Petan's position in most rankings.
He's shredding the WHL and has plenty of tricks in his bag, but he's an Ennis type.
He's smaller than listed and uses his hands, smarts, and his edges to be elusive.

Drouin is doing the same thing in the Q, but there's more to him.
He uses his whole body to be elusive and doesn't mind engaging (is very good at rolling off checks) or playing in traffic, plus he uses his stick very effectively to dispossess.
Players with those qualities are the type that go high in any draft or re-draft.

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02-25-2013, 11:51 AM
  #525
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
That would be a reasonable argument if Drouin and Ennis were the same type of player, but they're not.

For proof that scouts acknowledge that there's a big difference, look no further than Nic Petan's position in most rankings.
He's shredding the WHL and has plenty of tricks in his bag, but he's an Ennis type.
He's smaller than listed and uses his hands, smarts, and his edges to be elusive.

Drouin is doing the same thing in the Q, but there's more to him.
He uses his whole body to be elusive and doesn't mind engaging (is very good at rolling off checks) or playing in traffic, plus he uses his stick very effectively to dispossess.
Players with those qualities are the type that go high in any draft or re-draft.
A great example of that was the best shift video someone just posted. He used his body against the defender that was 4 inches taller than him and pushed him right away along the boards. This kid is going to be special for sure.

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