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Ryan O'Reilly Headed to Offer Sheet or Trade (Part 4)

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:39 PM
  #276
Mowerman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Not what I said.

Schenn was HF's #1 rated prospect at the time of the trade to Philly. Grigorenko, at least by HF, is the lesser regarded player.

Simmonds is more valuable than JGL.

The picks are even.

So, Richards and O'Reilly aren't equal. The trade proposal I offered is similar but not equal accordingly.
They aren't comparable deals. Mike Richards is a guy who "broke out" with a 75 point season (at pretty much the same age as well). He's scored 30 goals twice (28 another year), had 4 consecutive 60 point+ seasons, one 75 point season and an 80 point season. He also went a PPG in 23 playoff games leading his team to the finals. Not to mention he has "intangibles" in spades. Just as good defensively at least as O'Reilly, much better physical game, isn't afraid to drop the gloves, was the captain of his team & has extensive playoff experience, guy that is known to show up during the big games, etc etc. He had a pretty damn good resume outside of the nhl (juniors, olympics, world juniors, etc).

O'Reilly has a few years as a #3 centre and a 55 point season.

The only similarity is that they play centre. A Richards deal is not a framework for an O'Reilly deal. You are absolutely daft if you believe that a deal centred around O'Reilly should be similar in any way, shape or form. Period.

^ If you'd rather have a prospect that looks to have limited offensive upside over one that has a 30 goal season when they are near identical otherwise (except that Biggs plays the body a bit more and isn't afraid to fight), okay. That being said I don't do that deal. O'Reilly brings little to our team unless we can move Grabovski. He's not a #1 centre and we have our #2 guy locked up fairly long term. Overpayment as well, Kadri + Kulemin was getting us in discussion for Richards IIRC.

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Old
02-24-2013, 04:44 PM
  #277
Cujomi
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Anyone see the most recent rumours from HIr?

Quote:
The Ottawa Senators have an offer on the table for Avs’ O’Reilly of Zibanejad and Zack Smith. Being told the Avs want Silfverberg included in the deal instead of one of the 2 pieces offered by Ottawa, as well as a 1st round pick. However, the Avs are not pushing away the current offer on the table from the Sens. Sources say they expect O’Reilly to be dealt closer to trade deadline day.
So basically it looks like this...

Our offer: Ottawa gets Ryan O'Reilly for Zibanejad and Smith
Colorado's counter offer: Ottawa gets Ryan O'Reilly for Silfverberg, Smith and 1st 2013

If this is remotely true Colorado is out to lunch.

I think the rumoured Ottawa offer has value both ways...the counter-offer from Colorado is absolutely ridiculous.

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02-24-2013, 04:53 PM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Anyone see the most recent rumours from HIr?



So basically it looks like this...

Our offer: Ottawa gets Ryan O'Reilly for Zibanejad and Smith
Colorado's counter offer: Ottawa gets Ryan O'Reilly for Silfverberg, Smith and 1st 2013

If this is remotely true Colorado is out to lunch.

I think the rumoured Ottawa offer has value both ways...the counter-offer from Colorado is absolutely ridiculous.
Uh....Its HI. The guy is a joke. He knows nothing. His name is banned from HF for a reason.

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02-24-2013, 04:56 PM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Anyone see the most recent rumours from HIr?



So basically it looks like this...

Our offer: Ottawa gets Ryan O'Reilly for Zibanejad and Smith
Colorado's counter offer: Ottawa gets Ryan O'Reilly for Silfverberg, Smith and 1st 2013

If this is remotely true Colorado is out to lunch.

I think the rumoured Ottawa offer has value both ways...the counter-offer from Colorado is absolutely ridiculous.
It's not. He's a kid disguising pure guesses as insider rumors.

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Old
02-24-2013, 05:00 PM
  #280
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I don't know who is overvaluing more... RoR valuing himself.. Or the Avs valuing ROR.

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02-24-2013, 05:05 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Leman Russ View Post
I don't know who is overvaluing more... RoR valuing himself.. Or the Avs valuing ROR.
Still think it's funny they won't pay him like he's a #1C but they want that much in a trade.

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02-24-2013, 05:07 PM
  #282
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^ No, a no1 C would get much more than that in a trade. Why do you think they don't get moved...

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02-24-2013, 05:10 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
Still think it's funny they won't pay him like he's a #1C but they want that much in a trade.
Is Jordan Staal a #1 Centre? Because he got Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin and the 8th overall pick. The Avs are asking for less than that in return for O'Reilly who may very well be as good as Staal. O'Reilly put up higher points total than any of Staal's season while leading the league in takeaways.

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02-24-2013, 05:11 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
Still think it's funny they won't pay him like he's a #1C but they want that much in a trade.
So I guess salary reflects worth these days? Just because we won't pay it to him on his first extension, does not mean he will never be or is not a number one center. Should be grateful the Avs haven't caved and screwed up other team's negotiations with their own RFAs.

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02-24-2013, 07:00 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
Still think it's funny they won't pay him like he's a #1C but they want that much in a trade.
No one pays players what they are worth when they first are coming off ELC's unless they are superstars. It's a matter of prove to me what your worth. Just because they don't give him the money doesn't mean they don't value him as an asset at that level.

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02-24-2013, 07:12 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
Is Jordan Staal a #1 Centre? Because he got Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin and the 8th overall pick. The Avs are asking for less than that in return for O'Reilly who may very well be as good as Staal. O'Reilly put up higher points total than any of Staal's season while leading the league in takeaways.
I donno man, Silfverberg, Smith and our 1st this year (without Karlsson and Spezza for the year) is something I would rather have than the Carolina package.

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02-24-2013, 10:10 PM
  #287
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Just some FYI on what O'Reilly is doing right now from one of our insiders OrrOverGretzky ( Dom Tiano https://twitter.com/dominictiano ): he's been up in London practicing with the Knights and helping out with the Jr B Cullitons as they prepare for the playoffs.

edit: fixed twitter link


Last edited by VeddarRants: 02-24-2013 at 10:39 PM.
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Old
02-24-2013, 10:53 PM
  #288
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Do the Avs have to trade him at all? Don't they retain his rights for 3 or 4 years no matter what they do now?

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02-24-2013, 10:55 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by FrontalLombardomy View Post
They aren't comparable deals. Mike Richards is a guy who "broke out" with a 75 point season (at pretty much the same age as well). He's scored 30 goals twice (28 another year), had 4 consecutive 60 point+ seasons, one 75 point season and an 80 point season. He also went a PPG in 23 playoff games leading his team to the finals. Not to mention he has "intangibles" in spades. Just as good defensively at least as O'Reilly, much better physical game, isn't afraid to drop the gloves, was the captain of his team & has extensive playoff experience, guy that is known to show up during the big games, etc etc. He had a pretty damn good resume outside of the nhl (juniors, olympics, world juniors, etc).

O'Reilly has a few years as a #3 centre and a 55 point season.

The only similarity is that they play centre. A Richards deal is not a framework for an O'Reilly deal. You are absolutely daft if you believe that a deal centred around O'Reilly should be similar in any way, shape or form. Period.
Of course you can compare and contrast Richards and O'Reilly and draw conclusions. Throwing stats out doesn't stop anyone from doing that, also considering that you're skewing ages and stats. Richards was 22 when he broke out and put up 75 points. O'Reilly put up 55 at 20 years old. The only valid comparison there is that they were both in their 3rd season. But what's harder to do- start in the NHL at 20 or 18? Big difference in terms of development between those ages. So your first statement, "at pretty much the same age as well," isn't pretty much the same age; it isn't true.

You pointed out that Richards was a far better and more complete player at the time of the trade than O'Reilly. No argument from me. Richards was also 26 years old with far more experience at the time of the trade. And between the actual Richards trade, and the one I proposed, the Richards deal is better. And it is comparable and can be a framework, because Richards was traded for his current worth, at least at the time. O'Reilly is going to be traded for his future worth, and the potential that he becomes a two-way 2C. So while O'Reilly isn't the player Richards is or was at the time of the trade, his value is in a future of increased performance, already showing a glimpse of what may be to come last season.

Before you start throwing around names, maybe consider that both sides of an argument have supporting logic.

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02-24-2013, 11:56 PM
  #290
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I never noticed him in a Avs game, almost forgot he existed, now he's the missing piece to make any teams a lock for the the cup.

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02-25-2013, 12:02 AM
  #291
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ROR could be a good fit in ottawa sliding in behind Spezza.

OTT has some solid prospects and arent ever a perennial lottery team.

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02-25-2013, 12:16 AM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
I never noticed him in a Avs game, almost forgot he existed, now he's the missing piece to make any teams a lock for the the cup.
Then you weren't watching the puck or following the play. He is an excellent defensive player, always on the puck carrier, and often strips them of the puck.

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02-25-2013, 12:37 AM
  #293
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I just wish all this would be over already.

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02-25-2013, 12:51 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
I never noticed him in a Avs game, almost forgot he existed, now he's the missing piece to make any teams a lock for the the cup.
guess you only saw duchene play C for the avs then, he is far more noticeable than stastny.

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02-25-2013, 06:40 AM
  #295
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^ No, a no1 C would get much more than that in a trade. Why do you think they don't get moved...
Not a #1 C in a contract hold-out...

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02-25-2013, 06:52 AM
  #296
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Not a #1 C in a contract hold-out...
The Sabres got the #5 (Connolly) and #8 (Pyatt) overall picks for Peca, who had sat out an entire season and had a career high of 56 pts at age 26. Peca already had a Selke to his name, as well, but he also had six more years to bolster his resume than O'Reilly has.

Colorado is going to get something really good for ROR.

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02-25-2013, 06:56 AM
  #297
Pierce Hawthorne
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Do the Avs have to trade him at all? Don't they retain his rights for 3 or 4 years no matter what they do now?
Nope, that's why the Avs are in control of the situation. ROR is an RFA until he's 25 right now, 26 if he doesn't play this year.

Avs have 3+ years of controlling ROR. We can wait potentially that long to trade him, or if we don't get the right trade, we can still bite the bullet and resign him to the 5M.

In fact, I have a feeling if ROR isn't traded by the offseason, theres still a decent chance he'll sign with the Avs once we see what some of the other RFAs get in the offseason.

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02-25-2013, 07:08 AM
  #298
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The Sabres got the #5 (Connolly) and #8 (Pyatt) overall picks for Peca, who had sat out an entire season and had a career high of 56 pts at age 26. Peca already had a Selke to his name, as well, but he also had six more years to bolster his resume than O'Reilly has.

Colorado is going to get something really good for ROR.
And yet most teams could pay less just by getting him to sign an offer sheet.

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02-25-2013, 07:19 AM
  #299
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And yet most teams could pay less just by getting him to sign an offer sheet.
Oreilly wont sign an offer sheet, been said many a times around here.

If by the extreme chance he does, Avs simply match and get to keep Oreilly.

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02-25-2013, 07:20 AM
  #300
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If Ottawa trades for O'Reilly, then what is going to happen to Turris. Would he like to play 3rd liner, and does Ottawa value Mika Zib more than Silfverberg.

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