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Grabovski in the shutdown role

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Old
02-24-2013, 01:33 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Bozak gets no credit because he's done nothing to help them. Kessel was a 60 point player before Lupul and PPG with him. Why is it that Phil can't do this with Bozak? Why is it that Kessel's production drops when he's not playing with another quality winger?
A full first line helps. I don't know why you would expect Kessel to keep on his production when having Mac on his wing lol. A PWF (JvR, Lupul) + a pass first centre that's good defensively + a scorer is what a top line needs. When you take one of those out, production is going to drop. But for you to to say he's done nothing to help them is pretty funny and ignorant.

Richards production has taken a hit without Nash on his line.

Anyways, give me your point of view on this topic. I have no idea what points you support or what you believe.

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02-24-2013, 01:56 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Eb View Post
Damn, it was tough to read the above.

Interactif was providing reasoning and backing up his points and TMLgunners awful grammar and throwing in profanity and laughing faces made it frustrating to read.

What I love the most, is people giving Bozak no credit for Phil potting 35+, Lupul having a career year and JVR up at the top of league in goals. You then flip sides, and Grabo gets excuses that his wingers are not producing but isn't laid any responsibility in why a 30 goal scorer won't ever score 15 goals again.

Grabo is playing against the other top lines simply because he's the best we currently have. And for a price of 5.5 a year, and what he's producing and doing, it is not worth it.

Grabo is a shoot first, Kessel is a scorer. Common sense, would say a center and a winger wouldn't work. As Interactif has stated there's a reason why coaches haven't played Grabo and Kessel together.

Overall chemistry, importance to the team, Bozak > Grabo.
It is so nice to read a post, where there is some real insightful analysis to it.

I agree with you, and I am sure others are judging by their critiques of having a 5.5M shut down C that is not suited to that role.

It is also getting really hard to the read same 2 or 3 posters here and the usual excuses here, as they bring to the Grabo disussion. Excuses to me are not worth responding to, nor are they points as much as they claim they are.

Anyone who has watched Grabo played knows he is not a #1C, nor a fit with Kessel, for one you need a player on the same level as Kessel's offensive skills and instincts. Not one that is a tunnel visioned playmaker, puck hog, that shoots first, misses and asks questions later approach.

We always said as Leafs fans, Grabo is here until we have better depth at Center, Kadri playing with Orr and Macarthur, and Frattin has produced, I know Grabo couldn't produce more with these set of wingers, and yet this is the same excuse we have had by these same 3 posters last year when Kule went down and Frattin was moved in with Grabo. 3 points in 10 games was the result.

Kadri has made Grabo expendable at 5.5, along with his inability to play with Kessel, most here know this, we should have a true discussion of this, and I commend the Leafs fans, not homers that see this. You guys make this forum worth coming back to.

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02-24-2013, 02:02 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
LOL wut? We've backed up our points plenty only for Interactif and you to avoid them completely.

Are you really complaining about grammar on an internet forum?
I have pointed out facts, you have provided excuses for Grabo, but if you want to provide facts how Grabo has met or exceeded expections this year under his 5.5M per for 5 year contract, we are listening.

Here's another fact that escaped you last night, Grabo line produced 1 goal last night, while allowing 3 goals against. Now when I say he had a major role in last night's loss, losing a big face off though this somehow escaped you, you reply major role?

Really man, just come clean and call a spade a spade.

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02-24-2013, 02:06 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
yup leave with ignoring my post..

thank you come again
Actually it's the other way around.

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02-24-2013, 02:09 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
i comment what the **** i want.. and when i want.. go to a grammar forum if you all about the "english"

it was tough reading this bull****, as i gave not one ****
All it does is demonstrate a lack of intelligence on your behalf.

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02-24-2013, 02:19 PM
  #106
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Carlyle has forced the shut down role on both Grabo and Kuli. They are offensive minded players. Carlyle has to let them load and shoot instead of playing defence.

Check out Kulis stat in KHL and you would understand what I am talking about. Also, Grabo is a shooter/scorer he is not cut out to be a checker. It was pretty evident from one of his interview that he is not enjoying that role.

Bozak has zero skill (except faceoffs and an ok shot), he is a checker and he should be employed with that role. Let the skillled guys get together and score

Kuli-Grabo-Kessel
Mac/JVR-Kadri-Frats/JVR (When Frats is back good-bye Mac)
McClement-Bozak-Komorov (grind the opposing team's top-line)
Orr-Stecks-Fraz/Brown

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02-24-2013, 02:50 PM
  #107
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Makes sense when Kadri's line is generating significant offense & they are being sheltered. Who else is going to shut guys down, our fourth line? Fact of the matter is the reason Kadri is having success is because he's being sheltered and used appropriately by Carlyle. He's not ready to face tougher minutes yet.

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02-24-2013, 03:06 PM
  #108
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You know what, I really don't get this shutdown talk like it is something new. Under Wilson, it was either Grabo or Bozak's line going head to head with the other team's best line. Nothing new, that excuse doesn't fly. In 10-11 the KGM line was always up against the top line, Grabo simply is not doing it at 5.5, and this is being used as an excuse because we all love saying shut down line. Kadri is a rookie center, playing Center the first time at the NHL level, obcourse you are going to use Grabo, if he was a good playmaker and could play with Kessel. Bozak would be the 3C, but RC knows Grabo is not, so you play him where he is or you trade him or bench him. If he keeps getting into RC's doghouse the latter is where he will find himself.

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02-24-2013, 04:10 PM
  #109
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I don't know if it's just me, but this season it seems like whenever Grabo scores a goal in a game the Leafs end up losing that game

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02-24-2013, 04:18 PM
  #110
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Does anyone every notice that when someone who makes big money has a bad game all you here is what an terrible contract they have but when some like scrivens has a bad game no one ever say o well he makes nothing so he is suppose to make mistakes that game was great value against the cap

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02-24-2013, 05:03 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
All it does is demonstrate a lack of intelligence on your behalf.
Sorry.. Where are my formal manners on a hockey board.

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Old
02-24-2013, 06:13 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Eb View Post
A full first line helps. I don't know why you would expect Kessel to keep on his production when having Mac on his wing lol. A PWF (JvR, Lupul) + a pass first centre that's good defensively + a scorer is what a top line needs. When you take one of those out, production is going to drop. But for you to to say he's done nothing to help them is pretty funny and ignorant.

Richards production has taken a hit without Nash on his line.

Anyways, give me your point of view on this topic. I have no idea what points you support or what you believe.
Ok, how come Grabo doesn't get the same excuse?

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02-24-2013, 06:21 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I have pointed out facts, you have provided excuses for Grabo, but if you want to provide facts how Grabo has met or exceeded expections this year under his 5.5M per for 5 year contract, we are listening.

Here's another fact that escaped you last night, Grabo line produced 1 goal last night, while allowing 3 goals against. Now when I say he had a major role in last night's loss, losing a big face off though this somehow escaped you, you reply major role?

Really man, just come clean and call a spade a spade.
What facts have you pointed out? You keep saying that Bozak is the reason for Kessel and Lupul's sucess, yet when I point out what happens when Kessel isn't playing with JVR or a Lupul his production drops, you ignore it. Grabo hasn't been put into a position to produce, when are you going to realize this, combine that with his line-mates lack of offense and you get your answer.

Here's a fact for you, Grabo was actually out there for both goals for, he scored 1 and was a big reason they scored the 2nd. He's also not the one who gave up a huge rebound and then pushed a player into our goalie for the 2nd Sens goal, he's also not the one who again gave up a huge rebound and failed to tie his man up in front. Yes, he should've scrambled the draw but that's why they call it a TEAM game, when one guy messes up you should be able to help him out. To put the loss soley on him both shows your ignorance, complete lack of any knowledge on the sport and not actually watching the game.

Really man, just come clean and call a spade a spade.

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02-24-2013, 06:21 PM
  #114
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Again, list down your points on the topic, so I know what I am trying to argue here.

I 'm saying overall Bozak is more important to this team than Grabo is. What are you trying to say?

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02-24-2013, 06:26 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Eb View Post
Again, list down your points on the topic, so I know what I am trying to argue here.

I 'm saying overall Bozak is more important to this team than Grabo is. What are you trying to say?
Bozak puts up points because he's carried by 2 far superior players. He's hardly a catalyst on that line. Getting the puck and looking for Phil isn't what I'd call a playmaker. Put him in Grabo's position with Grabo's linemates and he doesn't put up the points that he is now.

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02-24-2013, 06:27 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Bozak puts up points because he's carried by 2 far superior players. He's hardly a catalyst on that line. Getting the puck and looking for Phil isn't what I'd call a playmaker. Put him in Grabo's position with Grabo's linemates and he doesn't put up the points that he is now.
Throw Grabo on the first line. Kessel and JVR still produces at the same level?

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02-24-2013, 06:34 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Eb View Post
Throw Grabo on the first line. Kessel and JVR still produces at the same level?
I wouldn't doubt it. They've already been producing with an offensively inept center for the past few games. JVR also started catching fire when he was put on Grabo's line.

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02-24-2013, 06:39 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
What facts have you pointed out? You keep saying that Bozak is the reason for Kessel and Lupul's sucess, yet when I point out what happens when Kessel isn't playing with JVR or a Lupul his production drops, you ignore it. Grabo hasn't been put into a position to produce, when are you going to realize this, combine that with his line-mates lack of offense and you get your answer.

Here's a fact for you, Grabo was actually out there for both goals for, he scored 1 and was a big reason they scored the 2nd. He's also not the one who gave up a huge rebound and then pushed a player into our goalie for the 2nd Sens goal, he's also not the one who again gave up a huge rebound and failed to tie his man up in front. Yes, he should've scrambled the draw but that's why they call it a TEAM game, when one guy messes up you should be able to help him out. To put the loss soley on him both shows your ignorance, complete lack of any knowledge on the sport and not actually watching the game.

Really man, just come clean and call a spade a spade.
Actually I said Kessel had a career year with Bozak as his Center, only when Connolly failed. Ignored another fact. When Lupul went down he continued to produce with Bozak and the all world Crabb. Bozak head 8 points his last 10 games when Lupul went down, yep, that's another fact for you.

Now tell me why in your opinion think Grabo would be a good player for Kessel to play with. His 1 on 3 tunnel visioned playmaking? His 3 assists this year? Have you seen the guy play this year, or since RC became the head coach?

Give it up man, you are really looking silly with this Grabo nonsense, no one here with an objective opinion is happy with his 5.5M dollar play this year.

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02-24-2013, 06:44 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Eb View Post
Throw Grabo on the first line. Kessel and JVR still produces at the same level?
There is no denying Mac, Frattin are better players playing with Kadri, they were not effective with Grabo as their centre.

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02-24-2013, 06:45 PM
  #120
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I wouldn't doubt it. They've already been producing with an offensively inept center for the past few games. JVR also started catching fire when he was put on Grabo's line.
To each his own. I think chemistry trumps all, and Bozie has that.

And has mentioned before, I highly doubt we will ever end up seeing Grabo on that line.

Overall, IMO Bozak is important to the success of this team then Grabo, for less the cost to boot. Kadri has made Grabo expendable too.

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02-24-2013, 06:48 PM
  #121
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I wouldn't doubt it. They've already been producing with an offensively inept center for the past few games. JVR also started catching fire when he was put on Grabo's line.
Really? Like how Grabo made Frattin and Mac better players?

Tell me how has Frattin looked with Kadri this year? And Mac? Kadri has assisted on 3 of his goals this year. The facts keep coming.

I recall Grabo having a secondary assist on a primary assist by Kadri. One of his 3 this year. How many primary assists does Grabo have compared to Kadri?

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02-24-2013, 06:50 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Actually I said Kessel had a career year with Bozak as his Center, only when Connolly failed. Ignored another fact. When Lupul went down he continued to produce with Bozak and the all world Crabb. Bozak head 8 points his last 10 games when Lupul went down, yep, that's another fact for you.

Now tell me why in your opinion think Grabo would be a good player for Kessel to play with. His 1 on 3 tunnel visioned playmaking? His 3 assists this year? Have you seen the guy play this year, or since RC became the head coach?

Give it up man, you are really looking silly with this Grabo nonsense, no one here with an objective opinion is happy with his 5.5M dollar play this year.
Kessel obviously continued to produce, he just produced a lot less than he did with Lupul.

Considereing the minimal shifts that they get together they flat out dominate. Hell, in the last couple of minutes in the TB game last week they were on the ice together and were in the offensive zone pretty much the entire time and creating great opportunities.

Have you seen Grabo's linemates the past 2 years? Do you not wacth how piss poor offensively Kulemin is? McClement and Komarov aren't exactly known for their offense either. Why is it that when Grabo was playing with JVR(you know, a winger that can produce offense) his offensive output increased? And for all your talk about how Bozak is a much better playmaker, he has a whole 3 more assists then Grabo. This all while playing more minutes, more PP and playing with an 11 goal man. If he's so great why doesn't he have more?

Give it up man, you are really looking silly with this Grabo nonsense. Anyone who actually looks at how he's being played and not his contract realizes why he's not lighting it up.

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02-24-2013, 06:56 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Really? Like how Grabo made Frattin and Mac better players?

Tell me how has Frattin looked with Kadri this year? And Mac? Kadri has assisted on 3 of his goals this year. The facts keep coming.

I recall Grabo having a secondary assist on a primary assist by Kadri. One of his 3 this year. How many primary assists does Grabo have compared to Kadri?
Frattin struggeld to score period last year, didn't matter who he played with.

Mac has 2 20+ goal season's playing on Grabo's wing, this from a guy who was once thought of as a tweener and would never hit 20 goals or 40 points.

Kadri is also playing sheltered minutes VS weaker opposition, not to mention his quality of linemates have been better. Maybe you should tell us how Kadri's been producing since Frattin went down? He's gotten a couple of points on the PP, but nothing ES. What's going on there? He's not good enough to get mac and Orr goin?

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02-24-2013, 06:58 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Kessel obviously continued to produce, he just produced a lot less than he did with Lupul.

Considereing the minimal shifts that they get together they flat out dominate. Hell, in the last couple of minutes in the TB game last week they were on the ice together and were in the offensive zone pretty much the entire time and creating great opportunities.

Have you seen Grabo's linemates the past 2 years? Do you not wacth how piss poor offensively Kulemin is? McClement and Komarov aren't exactly known for their offense either. Why is it that when Grabo was playing with JVR(you know, a winger that can produce offense) his offensive output increased? And for all your talk about how Bozak is a much better playmaker, he has a whole 3 more assists then Grabo. This all while playing more minutes, more PP and playing with an 11 goal man. If he's so great why doesn't he have more?

Give it up man, you are really looking silly with this Grabo nonsense. Anyone who actually looks at how he's being played and not his contract realizes why he's not lighting it up.
So now you admit Kessel produced without Lupul as his winger? An admission, Bozak gets some credit, cause I know it wasn't because Crabb was his line mate.

Again with the excuses of Grabo's wingers.

Kadri has had the same wingers Grabo couldn't help and make them better, Frattin and Mac.

And this is the guy you want and think can play with Kessel. 2 NHL coaches disagree with you.

Again, Kadri has provided the secondary scoring that has made Grabo a 5.5 million dollar expendable shut down C, Bozak is a better fit as #1C, Kessel and JVR are producing. When we find a true #1C or someone better than Bozak in that slot. Grabo will be traded, he doesn't fit on this team as a #1C, we have a better secondary scoring option in Kadri, and he is an overpaid underachieving shutdown C.

Give it up man.

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02-24-2013, 07:01 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Eb View Post
To each his own. I think chemistry trumps all, and Bozie has that.

And has mentioned before, I highly doubt we will ever end up seeing Grabo on that line.

Overall, IMO Bozak is important to the success of this team then Grabo, for less the cost to boot. Kadri has made Grabo expendable too.
I'd say Kadri more or less makes Bozak more expendable if anything. If within the next year Kadri improves his faceoffs then he would be a perfect fit for Kessel and JVR/Lupul.

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