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Why is Bud Holloway not on your team?

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Old
02-23-2013, 11:18 AM
  #26
Chazz Reinhold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
Yes that's starting to annoy me as well.
All this talent the Kings are "throwing away" hasn't seem to hurt them too much.

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02-23-2013, 11:37 AM
  #27
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I would have liked to see how Bud would have done in LA. Seems like a Williams style player. I think another team will sign him this offseason.

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02-23-2013, 11:53 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
All this talent the Kings are "throwing away" hasn't seem to hurt them too much.
No if I throw away $1.000, it doesnt hurt me too much either.

If I keep it, I can do even greater things.

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02-23-2013, 12:12 PM
  #29
Chazz Reinhold
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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
No if I throw away $1.000, it doesnt hurt me too much either.

If I keep it, I can do even greater things.
You really think Holloway or Purcell or Moulson or Hickey or Loktionov are going to be difference between the Kings repeating or not?

I swear, some people complain just to complain. No team in the NHL is going to be able keep every single prospect. That's just the way it goes, and that's why there are restrictions such as waivers. None of the players the Kings have let go are superstars or on the path to be superstars.

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02-23-2013, 12:30 PM
  #30
Frolov 6'3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
You really think Holloway or Purcell or Moulson or Hickey or Loktionov are going to be difference between the Kings repeating or not?

I swear, some people complain just to complain. No team in the NHL is going to be able keep every single prospect. That's just the way it goes, and that's why there are restrictions such as waivers. None of the players the Kings have let go are superstars or on the path to be superstars.
No, stick to the point please. You said; All this talent the Kings are "throwing away" hasn't seem to hurt them too much. I think that's so short sided. The Kings have won a Cup so why would we care about the future ? I want to win a second, third and more. Heck, we are 12th in the conference !

Holloway is lighting up the 3rd best league for two straight years and he was in our system. In the meantime, Moulson is going to have a 4th straight 30 goal campaign and that Purcell dude is doing pretty well as well.

No, no team can keep every single prospect, FACT, but this is getting ridiculous. Cliché, Zeiler, Segal, Clune etc etc. all got a shot.

Bud still has to show NHL potential. I've seen some games, he's really good.

I'm curious which other NHL team has let go three 60 point players, for next to nothing, in a four year time span.

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02-23-2013, 12:48 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
All this talent the Kings are "throwing away" hasn't seem to hurt them too much.
With old ass wingers all about to leave. You might want to look at the future and not our current roster buddy. It doesn't hurt to have good YOUNG forwards does it. I don't know about you but we seem to not have an abundance of that. The future we have old wingers and some old forwards soon to leave, I rather not trade for one I rather have one of our own players get a chance. Open your eyes to the future because some of our current players won't be here Penner Stoll Williams. That's a lot. Then we will have a problem.

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02-23-2013, 04:10 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
With old ass wingers all about to leave. You might want to look at the future and not our current roster buddy. It doesn't hurt to have good YOUNG forwards does it. I don't know about you but we seem to not have an abundance of that. The future we have old wingers and some old forwards soon to leave, I rather not trade for one I rather have one of our own players get a chance. Open your eyes to the future because some of our current players won't be here Penner Stoll Williams. That's a lot. Then we will have a problem.
Say what ?

Manchester is loaded with Forwards. What the Kings lack is NHL ready Defenders.

Not to mention next year, all the college Forwards will be AHL eligible.

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02-23-2013, 06:20 PM
  #33
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The Kings didn't really throw anyone away.

Has everyone forgotten how bad Teddy Purcell was? He just couldn't make a play. He had hands of stone when he was with us. I remember multiple tap-in goals that he just flat out missed. He didn't make good passes and he didn't have a great shot. I was so excited to see him promoted to the Kings, but it just didn't pan out. He was even on the first line for a while with Kopitar and Brown. How long do you wait?

Where was Loktionov going to go? Kopitar - Richards - Stoll - Fraser... I don't see Loktionov being a bottom-six center and the Kings have Kopitar (well, hopefully) and Richards (and even Carter) locked up long-term. There was nowhere for him to play. We tried him on the wing... it never worked out.

Hickey had many chances to impress in training camps, but never did. Well, not after he got injured, anyway. It was a toss-up between him and Doughty in '08-'09 but Drew beat him out, injuries caught up with Hickey, and he was never the same after that. Hickey is getting a decent chance on one of the worst blue lines in the league. If Mitchell AND Greene weren't injured, we wouldn't even be talking about this. We are just unlucky that three of our top-six defenders are out long term. With that said, Drewiske, Ellerby, and Muzzin have stepped up and are playing big minutes. That's a pretty big deal.

Moulson didn't get a fair shake, and we lost out on that. But Moulson also benefits by playing with John Tavares, who is a better player than anyone on the Kings (except perhaps Kopitar). Tavares has been on the ice for what, 60+ straight Moulson goals? Moulson is a good player and I wish he would have had that success here, but I really doubt that that would have been the case.

Honestly, I think the player that got shafted the hardest was Brian Boyle. He looked good for the Kings. He had size, but that doesn't mean he was meant to be a fourth-line checking center. Oh well.

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02-24-2013, 01:26 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
I'm curious which other NHL team has let go three 60 point players, for next to nothing, in a four year time span.
Moulson, Purcell and who?

If you mean Holloway, that's some nice spin doctoring. He's a 60 point SEL player (which is nice for sure) not an NHL player.

Honestly, the only players who have left LA for nearly nothing that have done anything great are Purcell and Moulson, and both got a sloid try out in LA. Purcell had 91 games as a King, while Moulson got 29. It's not like they were never given a look.

As for the rest of the guys mentioned in this thread, like Loktionov, Holloway and Hickey, what have they really proven to be labelled as given away talent? Loki has one goal in three games as a Devil, Hickey has one goal in 11 games with the Islanders, and Holloway is in Europe. Do they have talent? Yes. Have they proven anything? Not at all.

And for the record, every team has a Purcell or Moulson of some level. Detroit lost Quincey to us and gave away Leino (though he came back to earth last year). Chicago got Patrick Sharp from Philly for Matt Ellison. Bryzgalov was lost by Anaheim on waivers. Calgary walked away from Martin St. Louis and trading Marc Savard for Ruslan Zainullin. It happens.

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02-24-2013, 01:41 AM
  #35
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When was Brian Boyle on the Sharks?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/...S3w4en_5tivLYF

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02-24-2013, 04:42 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Moulson, Purcell and who?

If you mean Holloway, that's some nice spin doctoring. He's a 60 point SEL player (which is nice for sure) not an NHL player.

Honestly, the only players who have left LA for nearly nothing that have done anything great are Purcell and Moulson, and both got a sloid try out in LA. Purcell had 91 games as a King, while Moulson got 29. It's not like they were never given a look.

As for the rest of the guys mentioned in this thread, like Loktionov, Holloway and Hickey, what have they really proven to be labelled as given away talent? Loki has one goal in three games as a Devil, Hickey has one goal in 11 games with the Islanders, and Holloway is in Europe. Do they have talent? Yes. Have they proven anything? Not at all.

And for the record, every team has a Purcell or Moulson of some level. Detroit lost Quincey to us and gave away Leino (though he came back to earth last year). Chicago got Patrick Sharp from Philly for Matt Ellison. Bryzgalov was lost by Anaheim on waivers. Calgary walked away from Martin St. Louis and trading Marc Savard for Ruslan Zainullin. It happens.
I don't know why people bring up Purcell....He plays with probably the Best Shooter in the NHL, also a guy named St. Lou.

If You can't put up points playing with those guys....You don't deserve to put on hockey skates.

Moulson is about the only Guy the Kings should have taken a longer look at.

My personal Beef, Hickey should have stayed. But you can't keep them all.

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02-24-2013, 05:10 AM
  #37
Frolov 6'3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Moulson, Purcell and who?

If you mean Holloway, that's some nice spin doctoring. He's a 60 point SEL player (which is nice for sure) not an NHL player.

Honestly, the only players who have left LA for nearly nothing that have done anything great are Purcell and Moulson, and both got a sloid try out in LA. Purcell had 91 games as a King, while Moulson got 29. It's not like they were never given a look.

As for the rest of the guys mentioned in this thread, like Loktionov, Holloway and Hickey, what have they really proven to be labelled as given away talent? Loki has one goal in three games as a Devil, Hickey has one goal in 11 games with the Islanders, and Holloway is in Europe. Do they have talent? Yes. Have they proven anything? Not at all. Breaking all kind of records and is 11th in the league in hits as well. Where do you see that. I was a bit surprised about that because he didnt look very phyisical in the games I've seen.

And for the record, every team has a Purcell or Moulson of some level. Detroit lost Quincey to us and gave away Leino (though he came back to earth last year). Chicago got Patrick Sharp from Philly for Matt Ellison. Bryzgalov was lost by Anaheim on waivers. Calgary walked away from Martin St. Louis and trading Marc Savard for Ruslan Zainullin. It happens.
Again, which other NHL team has given away two +60 points players in such a short time. That will be three anytime soon when Holloway is coming to the NHL. Breaking all kind of records and is 11th in the league in hits as well, you dont see that very often.

I dont care Detroit lost Quincey on waivers. I dont care Chicago got Sharp from Philly for crap. I already said, that happens. That can happen so now and then, but not three players in a timespan of 3 years. Than you are doing something wrong. Of course we get to hear the usual stuff that player A is playing with Tavares and player B with Stamkos. The Kings have Kopitar and he's not a scrub. I never had a problem with Purcell because he got a good look. Moulson was ridiculous though, so was Holloway.

On top of that, I would have kept Hickey over Muffin as well.


Last edited by Frolov 6'3: 02-24-2013 at 05:21 AM.
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02-24-2013, 06:01 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
Again, which other NHL team has given away two +60 points players in such a short time. That will be three anytime soon when Holloway is coming to the NHL. Breaking all kind of records and is 11th in the league in hits as well, you dont see that very often.

I dont care Detroit lost Quincey on waivers. I dont care Chicago got Sharp from Philly for crap. I already said, that happens. That can happen so now and then, but not three players in a timespan of 3 years. Than you are doing something wrong. Of course we get to hear the usual stuff that player A is playing with Tavares and player B with Stamkos. The Kings have Kopitar and he's not a scrub. I never had a problem with Purcell because he got a good look. Moulson was ridiculous though, so was Holloway.

On top of that, I would have kept Hickey over Muffin as well.
At what point did we give Holloway away, though? Lombardi was upset that Holloway left in the first place. He told Moller to go, but was upset when Holloway left.

Quote:
“That’s, (heavy sigh)…that’s really frustrating,” Lombardi started with. “This is another one of those things in the CBA where it was kind of predictable. Whenever you have a cap in the minors, so to speak, and also, we have a problem in our system…not only are we losing these guys, but they’re still building equity towards free agency. It used to be that you had to get service, like in baseball. Now you have this thing where these kids can go over there, earn double the money and still move along the path of free agency.”
Quote:
“In Holloway, we were talking at the deadline, we almost called him up. Now, is he ready to be a regular? But, when Justin Williams went down, he (Holloway) got himself on the board, where we had National Hockey League people saying ‘You know what, let’s give him a shot.’ And that’s how close he’s starting to come along. Now, to go to Europe? It’s mind-boggling to me, other than the money’s so much different. So, you go over there and you earn $120-grand, or 120-Euros or whatever, it’s tax free. You get a car and an apartment. There is a big gap, you know. But, usually the guys who do that…are 26-27 (years old) and they’ve kind of already been labeled as ‘minor league players’ and maybe a ‘call-up.’ But, when you’re dealing with 22-year olds, this is mind-boggling – for these kids, where their whole dream was to play in the (NHL).”
I don't think we "gave" Holloway away. At all.

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02-24-2013, 06:13 AM
  #39
Frolov 6'3
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Clune, Cliche, Zeiler, Segal etc...all scrubs who got at least a call. Meanwhile Holloway is the leading scorer on your farm team and never got a sniff @ NHL action. Almost = still nothing.

If you think we didnt give him away, than you can say he was mistreated. There's a reason he got such a contract from a SEL team. He wasnt a crappy player.

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02-24-2013, 06:33 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
Clune, Cliche, Zeiler, Segal etc...all scrubs who got at least a call. Meanwhile Holloway is the leading scorer on your farm team and never got a sniff @ NHL action. Almost = still nothing.

If you think we didnt give him away, than you can say he was mistreated. There's a reason he got such a contract from a SEL team. He wasnt a crappy player.
I won't disagree with that. We brought up scrubs to help on the fourth line. But is it necessarily a bad thing to leave our highest-scoring minor leaguer to try to bring that team to the playoffs? The Kings made the playoffs in 2010-11 by going 8-2-3 in February and 9-3-2 in March, including 11 straight games without a regulation loss. The Kings sucked for most of the season and then went 19-8-5 to finish the season. Had we brought up Holloway that season and he hadn't performed well, we would all be talking about how he needed more time in the AHL and that we messed up his development by bringing him up too early. We would probably be saying, "We should have let him try to lead the Monarchs to a Calder Cup."

I just don't see why he bolted after leading the Monarchs in scoring. He didn't even go to training camp. He was next in line, ready to be called up. He had a tremendous season and would have been rewarded for it by making the team. Do you remember who started the season in LA? Scrubs like Ethan Moreau and Trent Hunter, because we didn't have anyone else ready to play. We didn't have Carter yet, either. Our team wasn't very good.

Our opening roster was:

Gagne - Kopitar - Brown
Parse - Richards - Williams
Hunter - Stoll - Moreau
Clifford - Richardson - Lewis

Holloway would have made the team over Parse, Hunter, and Moreau for sure. It wasn't like Holloway had been wasting away in the AHL either - it was only his second full season there. He was a third round pick in 2006 and played in the WHL until he joined Manchester in '08-'09 - what was he expecting?

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02-24-2013, 06:50 AM
  #41
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Well, you got to admit, he might be right. He was fully convinced that he belonged in the NHL, or at least should have gotten a call up already. SEL is no NHL, but the odds are he will be very effective in the NHL.

I like that.

I was almost in the same situation @ work. New employee suddenly got a pay raise and I didnt. I think I'm better and deserve more, threatened to leave and suddenly I get even more. I like that too.

Not sure if Bud had any bargaining power. Doubt it would work with Lombardi though...he's that stubborn.

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02-24-2013, 09:56 AM
  #42
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The only time I think about Moulson or Purcell is when they are brought up by overindulgent point-counters during the latest scoring spree.

Boyle I don't think about at all.

Bud frickin Holloway? LOLOLOLOL

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02-24-2013, 10:40 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Moulson, Purcell and who?

If you mean Holloway, that's some nice spin doctoring. He's a 60 point SEL player (which is nice for sure) not an NHL player.

Honestly, the only players who have left LA for nearly nothing that have done anything great are Purcell and Moulson, and both got a sloid try out in LA. Purcell had 91 games as a King, while Moulson got 29. It's not like they were never given a look.

As for the rest of the guys mentioned in this thread, like Loktionov, Holloway and Hickey, what have they really proven to be labelled as given away talent? Loki has one goal in three games as a Devil, Hickey has one goal in 11 games with the Islanders, and Holloway is in Europe. Do they have talent? Yes. Have they proven anything? Not at all.

And for the record, every team has a Purcell or Moulson of some level. Detroit lost Quincey to us and gave away Leino (though he came back to earth last year). Chicago got Patrick Sharp from Philly for Matt Ellison. Bryzgalov was lost by Anaheim on waivers. Calgary walked away from Martin St. Louis and trading Marc Savard for Ruslan Zainullin. It happens.
he also set the SEL playoff scoring record last year. He set Skellefteas all time points record this year and the season isn't even done. IIRC he is also 3 assists away from setting the SEL all time assists record.

I think you are underplaying what this guy is doing by saying he is "only" a 60 point sel player. Hell, the guy is likely to break 70 this season seeing as he is sitting at 67 with 4 more games to go I think...

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02-24-2013, 10:52 AM
  #44
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It's like watching Let's Make A Deal, where somebody put $500 in Holloway's hand and asked if he wanted to keep that or take Door #1. He kept the money and it turns out there was a New Car! behind Door #1. He could have made the Kings in place of Trent Hunter in October 2011, but "Oh Well." Now he's taken his seat again in the crowd and we've got brand new contestants.

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02-24-2013, 03:41 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
he also set the SEL playoff scoring record last year. He set Skellefteas all time points record this year and the season isn't even done. IIRC he is also 3 assists away from setting the SEL all time assists record.

I think you are underplaying what this guy is doing by saying he is "only" a 60 point sel player. Hell, the guy is likely to break 70 this season seeing as he is sitting at 67 with 4 more games to go I think...
Yeah he's doing more than just "really well".
-SEL playoff record
-First foreigner to win SEL in points
-Most points ever by a foreigner in SEL
-Most points ever by a Skellefteå-player
-Needs 2 points in the remaining 4 games to have scored the second most points ever in SEL
-Needs 3 assists to beat the assist record
-11th in hits

Also, Oscar Möller has scored fourth most goals in SEL this year in just 24 games. (2 hat-tricks and one 4 goal game)
Name Team Pos GP G AVG.
Söderberg, Carl LHC CE 50 29 0.58
Arlbrandt, Pär LHC LW 50 20 0.40
Holloway, George SAIK RW 51 19 0.37
Möller, Oscar SAIK RW 24 18 0.75
Fasth, Jesper HV71 RW 43 18 0.42


Last edited by SurMartin: 02-24-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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02-24-2013, 03:47 PM
  #46
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I *really* hope this is something that can be reconciled. The guy is a player, and we may have forward holes next year.

It would be horrible asset management to lose him for nothing, at least.

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02-24-2013, 05:47 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
I don't know why people bring up Purcell....He plays with probably the Best Shooter in the NHL, also a guy named St. Lou.

If You can't put up points playing with those guys....You don't deserve to put on hockey skates.

Moulson is about the only Guy the Kings should have taken a longer look at.

My personal Beef, Hickey should have stayed. But you can't keep them all.
People bring up Purcell because he's had success since leaving here. I get it, I just don't worry about it much. He was given a good chance here. Honestly, so was Moulson. How many 9th rounders who are cast off get 29 games to prove themselves? Outside of 1st and 2nd round picks, no prospects really get much chance to prove themselves at the pro level. You either make it early, or you don't. Muzzin now is a prime example. He's had 27 career games and people around here want him scratched when Martinez is healthy.

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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
Again, which other NHL team has given away two +60 points players in such a short time.
Again, if you'd ready the very post of mine you are quoting, you'd see Calgary did it with Marc Savard and Martin St. Louis. That's even worse than what LA did, since Savard was NHL proven (which Moulson and Purcell were not) and that Savard and St. Louis turned into high 90-point scorers, which Moulson and Purcell don't seem destined to be.

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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
That will be three anytime soon when Holloway is coming to the NHL.
So says you. I prefer to wait for a guy to play an NHL game before jumping to that conclusion. Plenty of other surefire NHLers did nothing when they finally got the the NHL.

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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
Breaking all kind of records and is 11th in the league in hits as well, you dont see that very often.
All very impressive, but once again, give him an NHL game first before we call him a top 2 line player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
I dont care Detroit lost Quincey on waivers. I dont care Chicago got Sharp from Philly for crap. I already said, that happens. That can happen so now and then, but not three players in a timespan of 3 years.
As I said above, it can happen, and let's stop calling Holloway something he hasn't proven to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
Than you are doing something wrong. Of course we get to hear the usual stuff that player A is playing with Tavares and player B with Stamkos. The Kings have Kopitar and he's not a scrub.
Does anyone know for sure either played with Kopitar? Especially Moulson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
I never had a problem with Purcell because he got a good look. Moulson was ridiculous though, so was Holloway.
I do agree with you on Holloway, I felt he should have got a look. Won't aree on Moulson though, sorry. 29 games is a decent look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
On top of that, I would have kept Hickey over Muffin as well.
Most would have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KapG View Post
he also set the SEL playoff scoring record last year. He set Skellefteas all time points record this year and the season isn't even done. IIRC he is also 3 assists away from setting the SEL all time assists record.

I think you are underplaying what this guy is doing by saying he is "only" a 60 point sel player. Hell, the guy is likely to break 70 this season seeing as he is sitting at 67 with 4 more games to go I think...
I did not say he is 'only' a 60 point SEL player. I said that's what he is so far. I acknowledge the fact he can be a good NHL player, in fact I think he has a good chance to do so. Unlike Frolov 6'3 though, I'm not going to label him as a 60 point NHLer until he actually is.


Last edited by Chazz Reinhold: 02-24-2013 at 06:40 PM. Reason: removed deleted post
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02-24-2013, 07:00 PM
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Docgonzo
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With all this talk about not dwelling on our cup and looking towards our future, shouldn't we stop talking about Moulson and Purcell and look towards prospects that we have.

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02-24-2013, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Does anyone know for sure either played with Kopitar? Especially Moulson
Moulson did play with Kopitar and Brown at the beginning of the 08 season. He had one point (a goal) and was a -4 in 7 games with them and he was taken off the line. He looked like crap, and he was traded not too long after that.

That trade was a wake-up call, a classic case of change of scenery. I think he realized it was put up or shut up at that point.

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02-24-2013, 07:09 PM
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Chazz Reinhold
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Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
Moulson did play with Kopitar and Brown at the beginning of the 08 season. He had one point (a goal) and was a -4 in 7 games with them and he was taken off the line. He looked like crap, and he was traded not too long after that.

That trade was a wake-up call, a classic case of change of scenery. I think he realized it was put up or shut up at that point.
Moulson was never traded. He was sent down to Manchester after those 7 games. The Kings didn't re-sign him in the off season, and he signed a tryout contract with the Islanders. All this talk about "giving" Moulson away is revisionist history. 28 other NHL teams didn't think enough of him to give him a contract or even invite him to training camp; only the Islanders gave him that chance.

http://www.insidesocal.com/kings/200...ith-islanders/

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