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Danny Briere: activated Apr. 11 (concussion Mar. 25); Q and A article Apr. 11

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Old
02-24-2013, 08:16 PM
  #76
Snipsnap12
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First off briere wold have to waive his NTC, and I honestly don't see him doing that... We have so much other salary that's being wasted, his cap is too much for his production but he is money in the playoffs.

I love timonen but his cap hit is way too high, bryz isn't worth the money at all.

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02-24-2013, 08:20 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Agreed, but at $6.5 million it would have to happen at the deadline in his last year right? I don't think any teams are taking on that full cap hit, even if he is a bad Mofo come Spring.

You can't re-sign guys you amnestied can you?
You can't. The win-win-win situation for us is if Briere gets traded, wins the Cup somewhere, gets bought out, then gets signed here for cheap, then is a vital veteran presence for the Flyers' own Cup win.

I can dream.

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02-24-2013, 08:21 PM
  #78
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We all know damn well that if traded... the first failed PostSeason run there will be cries of how just one clutch performer would have won that lost series, and how the Flyers could have then gone all the way and won that elusive Cup... How Danny, who is Money in the stretch and PostSeason, would have been the difference and how Homer blew it once again.

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02-24-2013, 08:22 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
You can't. The win-win-win situation for us is if Briere gets traded, wins the Cup somewhere, gets bought out, then gets signed here for cheap, then is a vital veteran presence for the Flyers' own Cup win.

I can dream.
Let's keep this simple: what if we keep him, and win the cup for the next two years.

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02-24-2013, 08:27 PM
  #80
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Let's keep this simple: what if we keep him, and win the cup for the next two years.
Done.

Now we sit back and bask in the success.

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02-25-2013, 03:38 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
^ A well reasoned analysis. I would be inclined to handle it differently though, for a few reasons. If there's one place you can't win if your hockey team sucks, it's defense. However, if there's one place that pays the largest dividends for being above average, it's at center. I will expound on that opinion if you want, but for now let's just take it for granted as my philosophy.

The reasoning behind trading Couturier there works, if we presume he will never be a better offensive player than Schenn. I am not willing to make that presumption, and we know it is very unlikely that Schenn will become the type of defender that Couturier is. Also, any #1d worth trading for is not going to be the #1d we really want. If they were they wouldn't be traded, those guys don't get traded. It'll be a Bouwmeester type of #1D. At the expense of Couturier, no thank you.

Also, injuries happen. And there are surely going to be series and games where one of Schenn or Couturier needs to play more time for match-up reasons or what have you. And they can surely play some minutes at wing.

I'm of the opinion that when you have players that you think are unusual talents, you don't trade them to have your skill more aligned to a traditional depth chart. You get creative. In-the-box, stick-to-a-depth-chart thinking can't take precedent over getting talent on the ice.


That's just my thinking on it. If a legit #1D that brings something to the table that is otherwise unattainable is available you think about it. But those guys are never available.
Thanks for the compliment. I also think your reasoning is pretty well thought out and indeed I agree with a lot of it; specifically the part about depth at center being extremely important.

And indeed, if a Bouwmeester type player was the best we could do for Couturier or in a package including Couturier, there's no chance I'm pulling the trigger on a trade.

If however a true #1 defenseman becomes available, kind of how Yandle from Phoenix is "available", I'd be willing to explore trading Couturier.

My whole reasoning for Couturier being the odd man out is as follows:

1) The Flyers tend to like to structure their lines so that the top 2 lines are all about offense, the 3rd line is the shutdown line to put against others' top lines, and the 4th line is the energy line.

2) I think Brayden Schenn has more offensive ability than Couturier (certainly a better shot and better finishing) and is a more dynamic forward, while Couturier is a much better defensive forward, so assuming the Flyers' line structure holds, I think Schenn will always get the #2C assignment, will be paired with the better wingers (some combo of Hartnell/Simmonds/Read/Voracek/Briere), while Couturier will be stuck with wingers like Talbot/Fedotenko/Rinaldo,etc. and will be assigned to play against opponents' top lines in the "shutdown" role.

3) The presence of Luke Schenn. I don't think Homer can trade one Schenn now without trading them both.

4) Assuming that Couturier would always be in that #3C role as long as Giroux and Schenn are here, a lot of his ability would be "wasted". Couturier is not the type of forward who can take over a game offensively all by himself. He needs help and as long as he's on that 3rd line, he's not going to get much help from his wingers. So a good deal of his offensive ability/potential will not be put to good use.

5) The presence of Scott Laughton. Having seen a good deal of Laughton since we drafted him, I've been impressed by his defensive play. I think he might even be further along defensively than Couturier was while playing in juniors. I think Laughton is an ideal 3rd line center and I think using him in a shutdown role would be perfect. I also think we'd lose a lot less going from Couturier to Laughton @ 3rd line center than we would going from Schenn to Couturier @ 2nd line center and going from Couturier to Laughton @ 3rd line center.

For me, it's just a matter of efficient use of resources. Couturier is an excellent defensive forward, but he's so much more than that and deserves to be used as more than that, and in order for that to happen, he needs to be a top-6 player. But from a team standpoint, as long as Schenn and Giroux are here, the best place for Laviolette to play Couturier is as the #3C.

The ideal thing to do is to trade from our bounty of incredible centers to fill the weakness of a #1 puckmoving defenseman. And if we can do that by trading Couturier, you have to consider it; especially if Laughton shows next year that he can play the shutdown #3C role well.

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02-25-2013, 03:49 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Agreed, but at $6.5 million it would have to happen at the deadline in his last year right? I don't think any teams are taking on that full cap hit, even if he is a bad Mofo come Spring.

You can't re-sign guys you amnestied can you?
There are several smaller-market teams with a plentiful amount of cap space that might be willing to take Briere, since his actually salary is so low. St. Louis, Tampa, Phoenix, Ottawa, Anaheim, Nashville are all contending teams that could acquire him with little/no financial or cap ramifications.

The question will be if Danny B would waive his NMC. If he waives, I think there'd be several teams interested in him this trade deadline. If he doesn't waive, then it's a moot point.

Either way, I think Danny would have to be moved @ this deadline. If Danny makes it to the offseason as a Flyer and the Flyers decide he's not in their future plans, it would be most beneficial to Briere to refuse any/all trades and get (compliance) bought out.

With a compliance buyout:
-Briere chooses his destination
-Briere makes substantially more $$$ than if he plays the next 2 years for 5M total. With a buyout, Briere gets 2/3 of that $5M from the Flyers and is then free to sign elsewhere for whatever he can get. The total compensation will be well over $5M.

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02-25-2013, 06:23 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
4) Assuming that Couturier would always be in that #3C role as long as Giroux and Schenn are here, a lot of his ability would be "wasted". Couturier is not the type of forward who can take over a game offensively all by himself. He needs help and as long as he's on that 3rd line, he's not going to get much help from his wingers. So a good deal of his offensive ability/potential will not be put to good use.

5) The presence of Scott Laughton. Having seen a good deal of Laughton since we drafted him, I've been impressed by his defensive play. I think he might even be further along defensively than Couturier was while playing in juniors. I think Laughton is an ideal 3rd line center and I think using him in a shutdown role would be perfect. I also think we'd lose a lot less going from Couturier to Laughton @ 3rd line center than we would going from Schenn to Couturier @ 2nd line center and going from Couturier to Laughton @ 3rd line center.

For me, it's just a matter of efficient use of resources. Couturier is an excellent defensive forward, but he's so much more than that and deserves to be used as more than that, and in order for that to happen, he needs to be a top-6 player. But from a team standpoint, as long as Schenn and Giroux are here, the best place for Laviolette to play Couturier is as the #3C.

The ideal thing to do is to trade from our bounty of incredible centers to fill the weakness of a #1 puckmoving defenseman. And if we can do that by trading Couturier, you have to consider it; especially if Laughton shows next year that he can play the shutdown #3C role well.
I think everything you said in the post is very reasonable, however I disagree with 4 and 5. I think Couturier will be an offensive forward who can take over game. We have seen glimpses of it in Game 2 of the Penguins series last year and that overtime shift this year against Florida I think. He had a 5 game goal steak and has had a ton of chances the last three games. He is on 20. I really think some on this board are judging him for what he looks like now as to what he will look like in 5 years. His skating and strength will improve as will his production.

I think Laughton will be good but Couturier will be way better defensively IMO simple because of his size. Everybody thought Richards was a great defensive center but he look at Crosby and Ovechkins numbers against the Flyers during his time here. There were both over point per game. Now look at Malkins against Couturier. Laughton is a player like Richards I think. I don't even know who to compare Couturier with.

I would love for the Flyers to acquire a #1 defensemen and I believe in good asset management. The problem with obtaining a #1 is that they are never available and if they are, they cost more than they are worth. Phoenix wanted a similar return for Yandle that Nashville wanted for Weber, i.e. Couturier + Schenn +. That's ridiculous for a player that is a better version of Matt Carle. That is ridiculous for Weber even. The only Norris caliber defensemen that I can remember ever traded in his prime was Chris Pronger, and he was traded 4 times. Teams are reluctant to move them. So it is not as easy as saying acquire a #1 defensemen. Someone must be willing to sell. Look at the price of Pronger to Anahiem in his prime, 2 top 10 picks and 2 firsts. I don't think the Flyers could lose that talent and still be competitive. That is Couturier + Schenn + 2 firsts. A deal like that is poor asset management.

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02-25-2013, 06:31 AM
  #84
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I would try something like this:

Briere for defensive prospect (Hamilton), Bruins need winger and is contender.

Briere for young defender in package (Myers/Kulikov/OEL) Myers is in Buffalo where Briere might waive.

Briere for picks. I really dont want to trade him only for late first. Maybe 1st+conditional 1st next year if they win cup

Briere for shootfirst winger (Stewart). Blues are conterder and they feally need kind of Briere to reach cup. Stewart+1st for Briere?

We have lot of others playoff guys to make a package for contender, Knuble,Talbot,Fedotenko. If we continue this kind of succes i really want to see strong push for draft or prospects with trade.

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02-25-2013, 07:05 AM
  #85
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we are not getting a guy like Hamilton or OEL for Briere....

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02-25-2013, 08:49 AM
  #86
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I'm not sure he would fit in any Western conference roster. They are all so big on defence and Briere is all about offense.

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02-25-2013, 08:59 AM
  #87
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I would try something like this:

Briere for defensive prospect (Hamilton), Bruins need winger and is contender.

Briere for young defender in package (Myers/Kulikov/OEL) Myers is in Buffalo where Briere might waive.

Briere for picks. I really dont want to trade him only for late first. Maybe 1st+conditional 1st next year if they win cup

Briere for shootfirst winger (Stewart). Blues are conterder and they feally need kind of Briere to reach cup. Stewart+1st for Briere?

We have lot of others playoff guys to make a package for contender, Knuble,Talbot,Fedotenko. If we continue this kind of succes i really want to see strong push for draft or prospects with trade.
You are overvaluing Briere, and I doubt that any of Knuble, Talbot or Fedotenko adds substantially to a deal at the moment. I'd be thrilled if Briere could be dealt for a late 1st.

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02-25-2013, 09:00 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by JayB View Post
I would try something like this:

Briere for defensive prospect (Hamilton), Bruins need winger and is contender.

Briere for young defender in package (Myers/Kulikov/OEL) Myers is in Buffalo where Briere might waive.

Briere for picks. I really dont want to trade him only for late first. Maybe 1st+conditional 1st next year if they win cup

Briere for shootfirst winger (Stewart). Blues are conterder and they feally need kind of Briere to reach cup. Stewart+1st for Briere?

We have lot of others playoff guys to make a package for contender, Knuble,Talbot,Fedotenko. If we continue this kind of succes i really want to see strong push for draft or prospects with trade.
That would be awesome. Myers' value is probably never going to be lower. Do the Sabres need a guy like Briere though?

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02-25-2013, 09:10 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by JayB View Post
I would try something like this:

Briere for defensive prospect (Hamilton), Bruins need winger and is contender.

Briere for young defender in package (Myers/Kulikov/OEL) Myers is in Buffalo where Briere might waive.

Briere for picks. I really dont want to trade him only for late first. Maybe 1st+conditional 1st next year if they win cup

Briere for shootfirst winger (Stewart). Blues are conterder and they feally need kind of Briere to reach cup. Stewart+1st for Briere?

We have lot of others playoff guys to make a package for contender, Knuble,Talbot,Fedotenko. If we continue this kind of succes i really want to see strong push for draft or prospects with trade.
you will never get that for Briere. No one is going to give up a vital part of their team for Briere. If anything, all we'll get for him is drafts picks and/or prospects

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02-25-2013, 09:16 AM
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you will never get that for Briere. No one is going to give up a vital part of their team for Briere. If anything, all we'll get for him is drafts picks and/or prospects
I could see them getting picks or potentially Myers. The other deals I think are highly unlikely.

If they could get Myers, which I think the Flyers would probably have to add a little, I think I would do it even if the Flyers were in contention at the deadline.

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02-25-2013, 09:30 AM
  #91
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Briere for young defender in package (Myers/Kulikov/OEL) Myers is in Buffalo where Briere might waive.
Sorry my bad english but did you now get the point? Briere++ for young defender.

But Myers would be very nice for Flyers. This would be fantasy but i would love to see something like this coming: Briere+Meszaros+Fedotenko+Wellwood+Knuble for Myers+Ott+Foligno


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02-25-2013, 10:09 AM
  #92
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I could see them getting picks or potentially Myers. The other deals I think are highly unlikely.

If they could get Myers, which I think the Flyers would probably have to add a little, I think I would do it even if the Flyers were in contention at the deadline.
why would Buffalo trade Myers for an aging centerman when all signs point to them missing the playoffs?

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02-25-2013, 10:14 AM
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why would Buffalo trade Myers for an aging centerman when all signs point to them missing the playoffs?
That is why I said "potentially" and asked if the Sabres would even be interested in a player like Briere. If they are out of the playoffs race they obviously wouldn't. If they are in the playoff race, it is a possibility. Reading comprehension, my friend.

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02-25-2013, 10:14 AM
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Sorry my bad english but did you now get the point? Briere++ for young defender.

But Myers would be very nice for Flyers. This would be fantasy but i would love to see something like this coming: Briere+Meszaros+Fedotenko+Wellwood+Knuble for Myers+Ott+Foligno
uhhh?

Fedotenko, Wellwood and Knuble all have little to no value

that would be a terrible trade for BUF

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02-25-2013, 10:17 AM
  #95
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uhhh?

Fedotenko, Wellwood and Knuble all have little to no value

that would be a terrible trade for BUF
But it worked in nhl13!

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02-25-2013, 10:18 AM
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That is why I said "potentially" and asked if the Sabres would even be interested in a player like Briere. If they are out of the playoffs race they obviously wouldn't. If they are in the playoff race, it is a possibility. Reading comprehension, my friend.
"potentially" could mean a lot of things, to which you didn't specify

My reading comprehension is just fine, thank you very much

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02-25-2013, 10:34 AM
  #97
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We all know damn well that if traded... the first failed PostSeason run there will be cries of how just one clutch performer would have won that lost series, and how the Flyers could have then gone all the way and won that elusive Cup... How Danny, who is Money in the stretch and PostSeason, would have been the difference and how Homer blew it once again.


I can easily see that scenario playing out if we cut ties with Briere.

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02-25-2013, 10:38 AM
  #98
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I would try something like this:

Briere for defensive prospect (Hamilton), Bruins need winger and is contender.

Briere for young defender in package (Myers/Kulikov/OEL) Myers is in Buffalo where Briere might waive.

Briere for picks. I really dont want to trade him only for late first. Maybe 1st+conditional 1st next year if they win cup

Briere for shootfirst winger (Stewart). Blues are conterder and they feally need kind of Briere to reach cup. Stewart+1st for Briere?

We have lot of others playoff guys to make a package for contender, Knuble,Talbot,Fedotenko. If we continue this kind of succes i really want to see strong push for draft or prospects with trade.
Briere's probably worth a late 1st and mid prospect at most. And I highly doubt any of those defensemen are available right now. Maybe Myers would be but the cost to get him wouldn't be worth it.

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02-25-2013, 10:39 AM
  #99
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"potentially" could mean a lot of things, to which you didn't specify

My reading comprehension is just fine, thank you very much
Debatable.

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02-25-2013, 10:51 AM
  #100
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I like Briere, but what scenario could possibly allow us to keep him without losing our young core? It's impossible with the new cap.

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