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All-Encompassing Tortorella/Sather Thread

View Poll Results: A quarter of the way through the 2013 season, do you approve or disapprove of Torts?
Approve 168 50.45%
Disapprove 165 49.55%
Voters: 333. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-24-2013, 03:29 PM
  #326
Bob Richards
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Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
Right about now, I want to see Torts..receive a stunner from Stone Cold.
I'm not going to derail this thread, but man that put so many awesome ideas in my head.

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Old
02-24-2013, 04:15 PM
  #327
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Tort's is not the issue, a coach can only do so much. That being said the team may have tuned him out and if so he has to go. The real issue that identify is your top talents outside of Nash have not been playing up to there talent levels.

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02-24-2013, 04:19 PM
  #328
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Can shot blocking strategy be pinpointed to Callahan and Girardi?

They are both tops in the league in that stat and have been for years. They log the most ice time out of Rangers F/D and they are the team leaders. Maybe Torts tells to follow the leaders and play like them, hence Gabby/Richards diving for shot blocks.

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02-24-2013, 04:20 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by lucicfist View Post
Tort's is not the issue, a coach can only do so much. That being said the team may have tuned him out and if so he has to go. The real issue that identify is your top talents outside of Nash have not been playing up to there talent levels.


Still not a fan of the system regardless.

Itd be nice to know what it feels like to win by offense on a consistent basis a la Chicago, Pittsburgh, Vancouver, Tampa Bay, etc.

Fun, exciting hockey.

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02-24-2013, 04:21 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by lucicfist View Post
Tort's is not the issue, a coach can only do so much. That being said the team may have tuned him out and if so he has to go. The real issue that identify is your top talents outside of Nash have not been playing up to there talent levels.
Can only do so much??? He implements the system to be used!!!! What don't you understand? Every player plays the same way. Dump and chase. And I like Torts but enough is enough. The injuries are irrelevant because this has been a problem before the injuries.

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Old
02-24-2013, 04:35 PM
  #331
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The question in my mind is, why people keep telling short training camp is one excuse for this poor performance?

It was a short training camp for every single team in NHL. That is not an excuse of any kind.
There's a difference between it being an excuse for poor performance and it being a reason for poor performance. It being an excuse means that it absolves everyone of blame. It doesn't, but IMO, it's a reason that this team is doing so poorly. Every single team didn't have the turnover NYR did. High turnover means people need to get used to each other as people and as players before they're completely comfortable. It means the team system and identity needs to be tweaked to fit the new guys. It means that the games where everyone can play and coaches can tweak without losing any points (preseason) are hugely important.

I see a bunch of guys who aren't sure about what their teammates are going to do, and that gets in the way of passing tape to tape or standing up for one another after dirty hits. I see a system that asks certain guys to dump and chase and others to skate the puck in try to make plays. The players don't know each other well enough and the system hasn't been properly adjusted to the new guys. Starting on time, having a normal camp, having a preseason, and having 82 games would all be hugely helpful to this team right now. Those things didn't happen. It doesn't take the responsibility away, but it offers an explanation IMO.

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02-24-2013, 04:49 PM
  #332
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A system like Chicago plays would be perfect, IMO. They play great 2-way hockey over there. They attack as a five-man unit, and there's always at least one guy open for a pass. They don't just grind grind grind. They pressure the puck carrier in the D zone.

Torts relies too much on shot blocking, rather than taking the puck away in the first place. The collapsing BS has to stop.

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02-24-2013, 05:12 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
A system like Chicago plays would be perfect, IMO. They play great 2-way hockey over there. They attack as a five-man unit, and there's always at least one guy open for a pass. They don't just grind grind grind. They pressure the puck carrier in the D zone.

Torts relies too much on shot blocking, rather than taking the puck away in the first place. The collapsing BS has to stop.
Defense without shot blocking? Does such a thing exist?

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02-24-2013, 05:17 PM
  #334
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I have not been watching a lot this season but does it seem like some players are tuning him out?

There was a clip of Torts yelling at Gilroy and the look on his face was completely "whatever" and it seemed like the players on the bench were also apathetic to the whole situation.

Hard to get meaningful context from one clip but it looked that way to me.

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Old
02-24-2013, 07:12 PM
  #335
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I voted disapprove, but that doesn't put me into the "fire torts" camp at all. You know the team is going to compete hard in the majority of their games, and that if they do get outworked in a game, they're going to get, at the very least, an earful from their coach. Plus Torts doesn't have a problem making ice-time disappear when he doesn't approve of a player's performance.

My issues with the team's coaching right now is:

1. The PP absolutely needs to be addressed. Now. It's ridiculous that a team in the NHL would allow it's PP to wallow as long as the NYR's has. It needs to be fixed, whether it's adding to the bench staff, or going hard to the drawing board. The NYR have playmakers, shooters, and a few guys that go hard to the net. They should be scoring.

2. I don't like that Torts cuts the bench down so much each game. He should be able to get reliable minutes out of 10 forwards everynight. I see a ton of teams get reliable minutes from their 4th lines that don't have 4th line's all that much better, if at all.

3. Line juggling. I know it's hard to fault this, and still want your coach quick to pull the trigger on a mini-benching, but I see a difference. There's plenty of times he breaks up lines without benchings, but instead just to shake things up. It doesn't seem effective. I can't think of many times, off-hand, that it's actually lead to increased scoring.

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02-24-2013, 07:21 PM
  #336
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I'm all for canning Torts at this point in time. I was never a huge fan of his other than last season (but who wasnt?). I honestly have no clue who to bring in as I don't know who's available outside of Ruff but I think we definitely need to bring someone in that allows this team to get involved more offensively and do things other than just grind it out and just throwing pucks at the net and hoping for a goal to be scored.

Our defense when healthy is legit. I respect what Torts and Sully have done for our D-Men and developing them to be this good. But I feel that bringing someone in that focuses more on offense will greatly benefit this team because our D is already superb and have no doubt in my mind that the likes of G, Staal, McD, DZ will still be reliable defensively while possibly adding more offense to their game and allow our forwards to be more creative. I think if we can bring it the right coach in here, we could truly see the team we all expected and wanted to see this season, and next.

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02-24-2013, 07:40 PM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaeTM View Post
I'm all for canning Torts at this point in time. I was never a huge fan of his other than last season (but who wasnt?). I honestly have no clue who to bring in as I don't know who's available outside of Ruff but I think we definitely need to bring someone in that allows this team to get involved more offensively and do things other than just grind it out and just throwing pucks at the net and hoping for a goal to be scored.

Our defense when healthy is legit. I respect what Torts and Sully have done for our D-Men and developing them to be this good. But I feel that bringing someone in that focuses more on offense will greatly benefit this team because our D is already superb and have no doubt in my mind that the likes of G, Staal, McD, DZ will still be reliable defensively while possibly adding more offense to their game and allow our forwards to be more creative. I think if we can bring it the right coach in here, we could truly see the team we all expected and wanted to see this season, and next.
Any ideas on a replacement?

Seems like most people want him gone with no replacement in mind.

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Old
02-24-2013, 07:48 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
There's a difference between it being an excuse for poor performance and it being a reason for poor performance. It being an excuse means that it absolves everyone of blame. It doesn't, but IMO, it's a reason that this team is doing so poorly. Every single team didn't have the turnover NYR did. High turnover means people need to get used to each other as people and as players before they're completely comfortable. It means the team system and identity needs to be tweaked to fit the new guys. It means that the games where everyone can play and coaches can tweak without losing any points (preseason) are hugely important.

I see a bunch of guys who aren't sure about what their teammates are going to do, and that gets in the way of passing tape to tape or standing up for one another after dirty hits. I see a system that asks certain guys to dump and chase and others to skate the puck in try to make plays. The players don't know each other well enough and the system hasn't been properly adjusted to the new guys. Starting on time, having a normal camp, having a preseason, and having 82 games would all be hugely helpful to this team right now. Those things didn't happen. It doesn't take the responsibility away, but it offers an explanation IMO.
I think the Rangers are getting beyond that point.

These are professionals, who, for the most part, have played with each other before and know each other. A lot of these guys scrimmaged together during the lockout, and everyone on the Rangers should know how Nash plays and his style simply from years of scouting reports and gameday strategies.

Hockey is just a game, not rocket surgery.

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02-24-2013, 08:01 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
Any ideas on a replacement?

Seems like most people want him gone with no replacement in mind.
I posted three choices that no one seemed to comment on.

1. (Immediate replacement) Lindy Ruff
2. (off-season replacement) Peter Horachek
3. (off-season replacement) Larry Robinson

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Old
02-24-2013, 08:08 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
Any ideas on a replacement?

Seems like most people want him gone with no replacement in mind.
Nah, unfortunately. I don't know much about who coaches and who's available (I said that earlier on in my post) I just think it's time.

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02-24-2013, 08:15 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
There's a difference between it being an excuse for poor performance and it being a reason for poor performance. It being an excuse means that it absolves everyone of blame. It doesn't, but IMO, it's a reason that this team is doing so poorly. Every single team didn't have the turnover NYR did. High turnover means people need to get used to each other as people and as players before they're completely comfortable. It means the team system and identity needs to be tweaked to fit the new guys. It means that the games where everyone can play and coaches can tweak without losing any points (preseason) are hugely important.

I see a bunch of guys who aren't sure about what their teammates are going to do, and that gets in the way of passing tape to tape or standing up for one another after dirty hits. I see a system that asks certain guys to dump and chase and others to skate the puck in try to make plays. The players don't know each other well enough and the system hasn't been properly adjusted to the new guys. Starting on time, having a normal camp, having a preseason, and having 82 games would all be hugely helpful to this team right now. Those things didn't happen. It doesn't take the responsibility away, but it offers an explanation IMO.


its been 17 games. how much longer do they need? there are enough players from last year where the turnover shouldn't be an issue. are you going to tell me we're playing like crap because we have a new fourth line? ironically enough, our best player this season is someone who wasn't even on the team last year. i understand youre not saying its an excuse and if you want to talk about guys not knowing what their teammates are going to do that falls on the coaching. how is anyone going to develop any chemistry when the lines get changed 8 times a game?

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02-24-2013, 08:19 PM
  #342
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I wonder whatever happened to the Safe-is-Death version of Tortorella.

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02-24-2013, 08:23 PM
  #343
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I wonder whatever happened to the Safe-is-Death version of Tortorella.
That is the real question.

The current coaching staff definitely has the ability to use thier horses in a better way. They did it before and it got them a ring. Why they insist on continuing to put a plow on Secretariat is beyond me.

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02-24-2013, 08:26 PM
  #344
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I wonder whatever happened to the Safe-is-Death version of Tortorella.
all talk but no action.

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02-24-2013, 08:29 PM
  #345
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Still not a fan of the system regardless.

Itd be nice to know what it feels like to win by offense on a consistent basis a la Chicago, Pittsburgh, Vancouver, Tampa Bay, etc.

Fun, exciting hockey.

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02-24-2013, 08:29 PM
  #346
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all talk but no action.
There was plenty of action in Tampa Bay. "Safe is Death" has never been the motto since he's been at the helm in New York.

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02-24-2013, 08:31 PM
  #347
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There was plenty of action in Tampa Bay. "Safe is Death" has never been the motto since he's been at the helm in New York.
He did actually use it here during the short time between taking over for Renney and the end of that season.

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02-24-2013, 08:35 PM
  #348
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I posted three choices that no one seemed to comment on.

1. (Immediate replacement) Lindy Ruff
2. (off-season replacement) Peter Horachek
3. (off-season replacement) Larry Robinson
I also suggested Dallas Eakins.

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02-24-2013, 08:36 PM
  #349
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He did actually use it here during the short time between taking over for Renney and the end of that season.

Yeah this is what ive been saying.

He also used it early in Gaborik's first year here in 09-10. We started off with it 7-0 or something I remember and then after that everything fell apart and he re-adjusted relative to the talent.

There was always talk of how this team lacked an identity post-Renney and we didnt get one until last year really.

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02-24-2013, 08:38 PM
  #350
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I also suggested Dallas Eakins.
Would be an interesting choice. He hasn't had too much success with the Marlies though, not to mention that whole Kadri debacle.

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