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Should Thornton be traded?

View Poll Results: Should Joe Thornton be traded?
Yes 27 20.77%
No 86 66.15%
Not sure 17 13.08%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-24-2013, 07:39 PM
  #51
Barrie22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Just a little on Boyle before he was married. JT and Marleau both have some teaching skills although I wouldn't think of either as big mentors. I don't think JT or Marleau are anywhere near coach level in teaching skills like Francis, Oates, etc. Pavs and Marleau are both involved in other hockey endeavors outside of the Sharks, Marleau has a camp and Pavs a junior team.
thornton has the experience of coming into the league at a young age and learning it from the bottom up. 4th line fighter, 3rd line checker, 2nd line power forward, 1st line power forward, 1st line playmaker, and now going back to 1st line 2 way forward.

i am not 100% sure of marleau, but wasn't he technically the same way?

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Old
02-24-2013, 07:49 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
**** no and you should feel horrible for even suggesting this. Marleau should go. Jumbo's the greatest Shark past, present and future and will never leave SJ.
I fully agree with this statement if there ever was a day Jumbo was traded they better have the golden gate on lock down. It would hurt as bad if not more than the Niners getting screwed in the past Superbowl. Joe isn't the problem and he wants to win.. Clearly he is frustrated. Even while frustrated I think he's going easy on people he's been fighting.. He could have completely wrecked Toews but I think he held back even while pissed off. We can let almost anyone else go but not our effective troll captain. (Obviously do not trade Niemi, Stuart, Couture, Wingels, Burns, Mr. Kennedy)

I'd be up for trading Pavelski if we get a super nice return, but it better be a fleecing because I can see trading Pavs coming back to bite us in the ass something fierce. And hopefully he would be sent out east if a trade occurs.

I think before we do anything drastic the Koala needs to go.. Seriously. I think he's lost the room big time and his strategies are clearly not working. How many times has the guy been outcoached? It's ridiculous. Todd isn't a horrible coach but he does not fit with this team anymore. In the beginning it looked like a good match and we were always holding the puck and screening goalies, but we've gone away from the original system early on in his tenure and other teams have figured us out big time.

The idea of trading Thornton makes no sense to me. It will be a sad day if he retires without a cup in teal and even if he does win it with a contender I will be happier than when the 2006 Canes won (My 2nd team) but doing it in SJ will be the best cup raise since Ray Bourque did it with Colorado.

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Old
02-24-2013, 08:01 PM
  #53
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i dont think its a matter of joe thornton not being good enough. Shut down our top line and we got nothing. Thats how its been the past 4 seasons. I say we trade either thornton or marleau and even up the strength of our lines. Fire the pro-cess, and get a coach that can introduce a new system players can buy into.

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Old
02-24-2013, 08:20 PM
  #54
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I'm undecided on this one, I might be with the majority of those in favor in trading him, that it all depends on the return we would get. But I don't really see why we would. Let's trade TMac for some picks.

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Old
02-24-2013, 08:30 PM
  #55
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Trade Clowe, Pavelski and Marleau in that order before you trade Thornton.

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Old
02-24-2013, 08:31 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinboo View Post
i dont think its a matter of joe thornton not being good enough. Shut down our top line and we got nothing. Thats how its been the past 4 seasons. I say we trade either thornton or marleau and even up the strength of our lines. Fire the pro-cess, and get a coach that can introduce a new system players can buy into.
So the answer is spread out your offensive talent. They don't need to trade anyone...besides, it's not realistic right now anyway. Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski should never play together at even strength anymore unless it is the dying stages of a game that they're losing. The bottom six provides nothing and you need a third line capable of scoring in order to be able to consistently provide offense at a high enough level to win on most nights.

This is a concept that DW has fought constantly because he doesn't want to put one of his top six guys through that for whatever reason but it's better for the team to have Thornton, Couture, and Pavelski each centering their own lines.

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Old
02-24-2013, 08:31 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
That's an absolutist statement I just don't agree with. Even with a young crop that you're turning to on a rebuild, they will need a veteran presence to help them along.
Look at the best teams in the league now. The Hawks, Pens, Kings and Bruins were all REALLY bad for a while. That's how you properly rebuild, if that's what you are doing.

I am not saying we should, but I am saying if the 'brain trust' decides to re-build, they should go for it fully. Give Pavs a chance to lead. Give Logan a chance.

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Old
02-24-2013, 08:32 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I agree that a management change should come first before a rebuild begins. They have a lot of front office remodeling to do before rebuilding would be worth pursuing.
Agreed.

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Old
02-24-2013, 08:50 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
Look at the best teams in the league now. The Hawks, Pens, Kings and Bruins were all REALLY bad for a while. That's how you properly rebuild, if that's what you are doing.

I am not saying we should, but I am saying if the 'brain trust' decides to re-build, they should go for it fully. Give Pavs a chance to lead. Give Logan a chance.
Just because they were bad doesn't mean that they dumped all their vets either.

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Old
02-24-2013, 09:02 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
So the answer is spread out your offensive talent. They don't need to trade anyone...besides, it's not realistic right now anyway. Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski should never play together at even strength anymore unless it is the dying stages of a game that they're losing. The bottom six provides nothing and you need a third line capable of scoring in order to be able to consistently provide offense at a high enough level to win on most nights.

This is a concept that DW has fought constantly because he doesn't want to put one of his top six guys through that for whatever reason but it's better for the team to have Thornton, Couture, and Pavelski each centering their own lines.
i honestly dont even watch the games anymore. besides the 5 mins where someone scores i have no idea whats up with them.

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Old
02-24-2013, 09:11 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
Look at the best teams in the league now. The Hawks, Pens, Kings and Bruins were all REALLY bad for a while. That's how you properly rebuild, if that's what you are doing.

I am not saying we should, but I am saying if the 'brain trust' decides to re-build, they should go for it fully. Give Pavs a chance to lead. Give Logan a chance.
why do the bruins always get thrown in with the really bad teams for there rebuild?

from the season that thornton was drafted in.

the bruins have missed the playoffs 5 times in 15 seasons. in those 5 years they missed the playoffs only twice did they draft (on there own accord) in the top 5 (thornton, kessel), and 2 times in the top 10.

they drafted 2 times in the top 10 because of trades, hamilton and seguin.

i would not call what boston did sucking for years to become good, they have for the most part missed the playoffs but still were competitive, then next season come back and make the playoffs.

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Old
02-24-2013, 09:14 PM
  #62
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Old
02-24-2013, 10:32 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
why do the bruins always get thrown in with the really bad teams for there rebuild?

from the season that thornton was drafted in.

the bruins have missed the playoffs 5 times in 15 seasons. in those 5 years they missed the playoffs only twice did they draft (on there own accord) in the top 5 (thornton, kessel), and 2 times in the top 10.

they drafted 2 times in the top 10 because of trades, hamilton and seguin.

i would not call what boston did sucking for years to become good, they have for the most part missed the playoffs but still were competitive, then next season come back and make the playoffs.
They missed the playoffs 4 out of 7 seasons and didn't win a playoff series for 8 years. They had the same results as the Islanders in that time frame.

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Old
02-24-2013, 10:52 PM
  #64
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Short answer: No.

long answer: Hell no.

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:14 PM
  #65
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The Sharks couldn't win the SC when these guys were in their prime.

The Sharks are Calgary circa two years ago.

Wait a few years and you'll have a team with depreciating assets and zero prospects. Actually that's the Sharks now. But wait two years and you'll have a long rebuild with not much to trade. It's a long rebuild anyway.

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:17 PM
  #66
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No, he still makes players around him better.

We need to make a deal, just not one with Jumbo.

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:32 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
They missed the playoffs 4 out of 7 seasons and didn't win a playoff series for 8 years. They had the same results as the Islanders in that time frame.
they missed the playoffs twice since the last lockout. 2005-06 and 06-07. 05-06 was kessel at 5th. 06-07 was zach hamill at 8th

before the last lockout, they missed the playoffs in 00-01 picked 19th overall. and then missed again in 99-00 and picked 7th overall.

then they missed the playoffs in 96-97, the year they picked 1st overall to draft thornton.

a team that picks only only twice in the top 5 and 4 times in the top 10 in a span of 15 years is not a team that is rebuilding.

just because they only made it out of the 1st round of the playoffs once in that same time span doesn't mean they were rebuilding.

before thornton the bruins had to go all the way back to 1987 to draft in the top 5 again.

the bruins didn't rebuild through tanking and getting high picks, they rebuilt on the fly by trades, and free agent signings and late round draft picks.

krejci 2nd round 63rd overall
bergeron 2nd round 45th overall
marchand 3rd round 71st overall
ryder (free agent signing/trade)
horton (free agent signing/trade)
recchi (free agent signing/trade)
kelly (free agent signing/trade)
lucic 2nd round 65th overall
peverley (free agent)
seidenberg (free agent/trade)
kaberle (free agent/trade)
ference (free agent/trade)
boychuk (free agent/trade)
chara (free agent)
seguin (2nd overall via trade)
paille (free agent/trade)
campbell (free agent/trade)
mcquaid (free agent/trade)
thornton (free agent/trade)
hnidy (free agent/trade)

does that team look like it was built through sucking? only 4 of those players should of been drafted by the bruins, 5 of them were thanks to the brilliant idiot like burke.

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:48 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
So the answer is spread out your offensive talent. They don't need to trade anyone...besides, it's not realistic right now anyway. Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski should never play together at even strength anymore unless it is the dying stages of a game that they're losing. The bottom six provides nothing and you need a third line capable of scoring in order to be able to consistently provide offense at a high enough level to win on most nights.

This is a concept that DW has fought constantly because he doesn't want to put one of his top six guys through that for whatever reason but it's better for the team to have Thornton, Couture, and Pavelski each centering their own lines.
very well put.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VP and GM View Post
No, he still makes players around him better.

We need to make a deal, just not one with Jumbo.
Agree completely. With a deal, should be at least a couple. One possibly from our top 4 to 6 and another replacing one or better yet a couple via the bottom 6.

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:53 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
they missed the playoffs twice since the last lockout. 2005-06 and 06-07. 05-06 was kessel at 5th. 06-07 was zach hamill at 8th

before the last lockout, they missed the playoffs in 00-01 picked 19th overall. and then missed again in 99-00 and picked 7th overall.

then they missed the playoffs in 96-97, the year they picked 1st overall to draft thornton.

a team that picks only only twice in the top 5 and 4 times in the top 10 in a span of 15 years is not a team that is rebuilding.

just because they only made it out of the 1st round of the playoffs once in that same time span doesn't mean they were rebuilding.

before thornton the bruins had to go all the way back to 1987 to draft in the top 5 again.

the bruins didn't rebuild through tanking and getting high picks, they rebuilt on the fly by trades, and free agent signings and late round draft picks.

krejci 2nd round 63rd overall
bergeron 2nd round 45th overall
marchand 3rd round 71st overall
ryder (free agent signing/trade)
horton (free agent signing/trade)
recchi (free agent signing/trade)
kelly (free agent signing/trade)
lucic 2nd round 65th overall
peverley (free agent)
seidenberg (free agent/trade)
kaberle (free agent/trade)
ference (free agent/trade)
boychuk (free agent/trade)
chara (free agent)
seguin (2nd overall via trade)
paille (free agent/trade)
campbell (free agent/trade)
mcquaid (free agent/trade)
thornton (free agent/trade)
hnidy (free agent/trade)

does that team look like it was built through sucking? only 4 of those players should of been drafted by the bruins, 5 of them were thanks to the brilliant idiot like burke.
just to add, how close has Mike O'connel come to any gm position again after that Thornton deal with the Sharks? nada/nil.

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Old
02-25-2013, 12:07 AM
  #70
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The thirteen that have thus far voted yes should all get 2x4's and be locked in a racquetball court where they can all bludgeon one another. No offense.

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02-25-2013, 12:22 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkbite3 View Post
The thirteen that have thus far voted yes should all get 2x4's and be locked in a racquetball court where they can all bludgeon one another. No offense.
Pretty sure some of them aren't even Sharks fans. Either way I agree with ya.


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Old
02-25-2013, 12:45 AM
  #72
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Pretty sure some of them aren't even Sharks fans. Either way I agree with ya.

One confirmed non-Sharks fan, one dude who only ever posts about babes in the Lounge so who the **** knows if he even follows hockey.

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02-25-2013, 01:08 AM
  #73
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Pretty sure some of them aren't even Sharks fans. Either way I agree with ya.

lol, they just want Thornton to go to their team.

But aside from my stupid initial reply, Joe is one of the greatest Sharks ever (the greatest?) and there's no way he could or should be traded. He needs...neeeeeeeds to remain a Shark for the rest of his career. If he ever ended up on another team I'd watch him every game and cheer my ass off.

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Old
02-25-2013, 01:18 AM
  #74
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I think should the question be here is should he remain to be captain or not look at well um Marleaus success after giving up the C and passing it down to Blake why not Boyle he clearly is a team leader and I'm sure he's going to retire as a shark

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Old
02-25-2013, 02:24 AM
  #75
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For me this me this is a tough question and I'm honestly not sure. Its not as simple as yes or no because ever since Jumbo has come here he's been the heart and soul of this team both on and off the ice, be it in the locker room or just community wise. I know Joe loves it in San Jose and we all love him too but I just think that maybe his game is a bit too predictable which is one of the big reasons why our top 6 tends to struggle sometimes. Every defenseman in the league knows that Joe is almost always thinking "pass first" and it becomes easy to stop. With Joe leading the top line and the powerplay it becomes easy to shut him down when he stops and sets up in the corner to make the most predictable passes and it just slows our offense down so much. I don't think I have to tell you guys how slow he is and imagine if Marleau was playing with a top 6 forward who was fast. Guys like Thornton, Clowe and Handzus really slow our offense down and clearly one of the main reasons our offense is struggling so much is because of a lack of speed which makes it harder for our guys to make a clean zone entry. As you can see my main reasons for proposing this question are because of his speed and predictability. Thornton has a wicked wrist shot which we rarely see and when we do see it there's a good chance its in the back of the net. Anyway, I'm not saying we should trade him but I don't think it could hurt to shop him or hear out some offers for him. I still love Joe but if he doesn't start changing his game soon a bit then he might have to go before his value decreases even more.

What do you guys think we should trade him for and what do you think he's worth? I think he could fetch us a few 1st round picks and a good prospect or a top 6 forward and a pick or two, obviously depending on which forward.
Lets get one thing straight. Marleau never scored 30 goals until Thornton arrived (he hadn't even broken the 60 point plateau).

Granted they didn't always play on the same line together, but Thornton has had a positive effect on Marleau's career. And vice versa.

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