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All-Encompassing Tortorella/Sather Thread

View Poll Results: A quarter of the way through the 2013 season, do you approve or disapprove of Torts?
Approve 168 50.45%
Disapprove 165 49.55%
Voters: 333. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-24-2013, 08:40 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
Yeah this is what ive been saying.

He also used it early in Gaborik's first year here in 09-10. We started off with it 7-0 or something I remember and then after that everything fell apart and he re-adjusted relative to the talent.

There was always talk of how this team lacked an identity post-Renney and we didnt get one until last year really.
Our identity came two years ago with the Pack line rolling. Now most of that line is gone and we've lost our identity again. Coincidence?

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02-24-2013, 08:50 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Our identity came two years ago with the Pack line rolling. Now most of that line is gone and we've lost our identity again. Coincidence?
That was one of the reasons why I was hesitant to make the Nash trade.

I think Nash has been great, and he has exceeded my expectations on the ice. However, that trade definitely changed our identity. I think they are going through an adjustment period now and will be fine in the long run, but it's going to require patience.

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02-24-2013, 08:58 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
That was one of the reasons why I was hesitant to make the Nash trade.

I think Nash has been great, and he has exceeded my expectations on the ice. However, that trade definitely changed our identity. I think they are going through an adjustment period now and will be fine in the long run, but it's going to require patience.
Maybe. But the problem here is that Tortorella's system that he's been running since the middle of 09-10 worked perfectly with the type of players that we had. Now that we've got a very different roster, he hasn't adjusted. I'll throw in a huge word that goes along with your point: yet.

I was pretty vocal against the Nash trade. Not because I didn't want Nash, but because I didn't want Nash at the price of those two players. Water under the bridge though.

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02-24-2013, 09:11 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Maybe. But the problem here is that Tortorella's system that he's been running since the middle of 09-10 worked perfectly with the type of players that we had. Now that we've got a very different roster, he hasn't adjusted. I'll throw in a huge word that goes along with your point: yet.

I was pretty vocal against the Nash trade. Not because I didn't want Nash, but because I didn't want Nash at the price of those two players. Water under the bridge though.
I mentioned it earlier in the thread - it's not easy to change the system in a lockout-shortened season with only one week of training camp. Especially when practices had to be cut short because the players were complaining about being tired. I think we may have to wait until next season with a full training camp before another system is implemented.

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02-24-2013, 09:12 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
Yeah this is what ive been saying.

He also used it early in Gaborik's first year here in 09-10. We started off with it 7-0 or something I remember and then after that everything fell apart and he re-adjusted relative to the talent.

There was always talk of how this team lacked an identity post-Renney and we didnt get one until last year really.
That is exactly it. Torts started to do what he could to win with the talent he had. Safe is death was not going to work in NY, at least not then. Now he is just going with what worked last year, and it isn't any longer.

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02-24-2013, 09:15 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I mentioned it earlier in the thread - it's not easy to change the system in a lockout-shortened season with only one week of training camp. Especially when practices had to be cut short because the players were complaining about being tired. I think we may have to wait until next season with a full training camp before another system is implemented.
He changed systems mid-season before. This lockout-shortened season thing is getting to be a tired excuse. We're now 17 games in. 35% of the season. I was a big proponent of being patient earlier in the year when we were struggling. Now? Not so much. Something has to adjust and it's the coach's responsibility to do it. It can still happen. It isn't going to take all that much to get on a roll, but it is going to take something.

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02-24-2013, 09:22 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
He changed systems mid-season before. This lockout-shortened season thing is getting to be a tired excuse. We're now 17 games in. 35% of the season. I was a big proponent of being patient earlier in the year when we were struggling. Now? Not so much. Something has to adjust and it's the coach's responsibility to do it. It can still happen. It isn't going to take all that much to get on a roll, but it is going to take something.
He changed systems mid-season and took a few months to adjust. Maybe he feels there's not enough time to do it now. Whether or not he opens up it more this season may depend on when Nash comes back and if Richards improves.

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02-24-2013, 09:26 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
He changed systems mid-season and took a few months to adjust. Maybe he feels there's not enough time to do it now. Whether or not he opens up it more this season may depend on when Nash comes back and if Richards improves.
Richards problems stem from a bunch of factors, but one of them is that he obviously doesn't feel all that comfortable being creative out there. That's a system issue to me.

I don't think Tortorella should overhaul the whole thing here. But tweaking the system the guys know shouldn't be out of the question.

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02-24-2013, 10:54 PM
  #359
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Tortarella needs to go, his system SUCKS with skilled players.

They've stopped responding to the incessant yelling he does, and his lack of adjustment to different situations (changing lines like underwear is not adjusting to adversity) is apparent.

Time for a new coach who can employ a system that will work with skill players like this.

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02-24-2013, 10:57 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
That is exactly it. Torts started to do what he could to win with the talent he had. Safe is death was not going to work in NY, at least not then. Now he is just going with what worked last year, and it isn't any longer.

Im surprised that im only like 1/3 people that remembers this.

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02-24-2013, 10:58 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Maybe. But the problem here is that Tortorella's system that he's been running since the middle of 09-10 worked perfectly with the type of players that we had. Now that we've got a very different roster, he hasn't adjusted. I'll throw in a huge word that goes along with your point: yet.

I was pretty vocal against the Nash trade. Not because I didn't want Nash, but because I didn't want Nash at the price of those two players. Water under the bridge though.

I find myself usually agreeing with you on a regular basis. This is spot on.

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02-24-2013, 11:08 PM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Maybe. But the problem here is that Tortorella's system that he's been running since the middle of 09-10 worked perfectly with the type of players that we had. Now that we've got a very different roster, he hasn't adjusted. I'll throw in a huge word that goes along with your point: yet.

I was pretty vocal against the Nash trade. Not because I didn't want Nash, but because I didn't want Nash at the price of those two players. Water under the bridge though.
I think the majority of the fanbase was against the trade (e.g, the "we don't want you" chants). Everyone knew it would come at a cost. Personally, I wasn't comfortable with Erixon being thrown in there, and this is hindsight, be he could've been called up at a time like this.

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02-24-2013, 11:09 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Dangleberry View Post
I think the majority of the fanbase was against the trade (e.g, the "we don't want you" chants). Everyone knew it would come at a cost. Personally, I wasn't comfortable with Erixon being thrown in there, and this is hindsight, be he could've been called up at a time like this.

Its my understanding that Kreider was the untouchable, and the reason for the chant. He was the rumored player at the time Howson wanted. I think most were comfortable with the eventual outcome of who we sent.

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02-24-2013, 11:11 PM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangleberry View Post
I think the majority of the fanbase was against the trade (e.g, the "we don't want you" chants). Everyone knew it would come at a cost. Personally, I wasn't comfortable with Erixon being thrown in there, and this is hindsight, be he could've been called up at a time like this.
The majority of the fan base, at least around here, was against the trade at the deadline, but for it in the offseason. But let's please not turn this into a Nash thread, for the moderators sakes

So this, to me, is THE evolving storyline of this season for the Rangers. Can Tortorella adjust the system to incorporate a higher level of skill into it?

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02-24-2013, 11:20 PM
  #365
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No one was for it during the season when Howson wanted one of McD/DZ, Kreider, Stepan, and a 1st. After we received the deal that went down majority jumped all over it. Had we received that deal before the trade deadline we would have pulled the trigger but Howsons demands were ridiculous.

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02-25-2013, 02:41 AM
  #366
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Can only do so much??? He implements the system to be used!!!! What don't you understand? Every player plays the same way. Dump and chase. And I like Torts but enough is enough. The injuries are irrelevant because this has been a problem before the injuries.

What I do understand ala NY yankee's style the Rangers went out and paid for the top free agents. Trouble was the top free agents had warts as in a not over all game. When they produce no scoring ala Kessel there use is glaringly negative. That being said the NewYork Rangers had an elite top 4 no questions asked team last season and Tort's deserves that credit. He coaches does not play and the heart of said stars is now in question. Be thankfull you have Lunds or this team would implode.

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02-25-2013, 03:12 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by lucicfist View Post
What I do understand ala NY yankee's style the Rangers went out and paid for the top free agents. Trouble was the top free agents had warts as in a not over all game. When they produce no scoring ala Kessel there use is glaringly negative. That being said the NewYork Rangers had an elite top 4 no questions asked team last season and Tort's deserves that credit. He coaches does not play and the heart of said stars is now in question. Be thankfull you have Lunds or this team would implode.
The top free agents have warts?


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02-25-2013, 03:17 AM
  #368
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I give him until the end of the year. Kinda like Coughlin in 2007. As much as I think he's a tool and a terrible tactician, he deserves 30 or more games and the postseason.

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02-25-2013, 07:07 AM
  #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
He changed systems mid-season before. This lockout-shortened season thing is getting to be a tired excuse. We're now 17 games in. 35% of the season. I was a big proponent of being patient earlier in the year when we were struggling. Now? Not so much. Something has to adjust and it's the coach's responsibility to do it. It can still happen. It isn't going to take all that much to get on a roll, but it is going to take something.
shortened season is the reason for this team because we turned over 5 -6 forwards! No camp, no preseason, plus youth coming in, with the pressure from this maniac?

And they were starting to play better, and then Nash got injured.... And now everyone else....

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02-25-2013, 08:43 AM
  #370
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Realistic Candidates

I don't think the organization would fire John Tortorella....YET. However, let's say if the team continues to perform without a pulse and are tuning Tortorella out by the trade deadline.....who are realistic candidates to replace him?

Everyone points to Lindy Ruff coming off Buffalo. I am not sure he would be the slam dunk everyone is thinking. He was after unsucessful in his recent years in Buffalo (missing the playoffs the last 3/5 years) and only appeared to have such long term job security due to the crutch him and Darcy Reiger used of lacking finances. As soon as solid ownership was put in place and they were given all the resources they needed both GM and coach failed to deliver (does Glen Sather transition from Edmonton to NY ring a bell?).

Who else is out there that could help this team? Specifically what kind of coach would the team need?

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02-25-2013, 08:43 AM
  #371
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Been stated already but Torts is really trying to jam a square peg through a round hole with this roster. The team has enough natural talent on defense and in net to let his skilled forwards loose but he continues to demand a certain style and tempo that just doesn't fit the makeup of his roster. It's an NFL coach using a 3/4 defense without a big run stuffing nose tackle or a wildcat offense without a mobile QB. If its not working you either need to move away from the prevailing philosophy or get the roster pieces that can execute what you want.

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02-25-2013, 09:15 AM
  #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucicfist View Post
What I do understand ala NY yankee's style the Rangers went out and paid for the top free agents. Trouble was the top free agents had warts as in a not over all game. When they produce no scoring ala Kessel there use is glaringly negative. That being said the NewYork Rangers had an elite top 4 no questions asked team last season and Tort's deserves that credit. He coaches does not play and the heart of said stars is now in question. Be thankfull you have Lunds or this team would implode.
Huh? Signed top free agents? Who? Gaborik and Richards? Because they traded for Nash and he hasn't even been here a full season yet. Gaborik has produced two 40 goal seasons. Richards has only been here one full season. Do NOT compare them to the yankees who normally sign big name free agents every year, sometimes two per offseason. But what they should do or rather what Torts should do, is take a page out of the yankees book. And that is cater to the players the organization brings in rather than forcing those players to play a system that does not fit their game. You say Torts can only do so much, he's passionate and just the coach....well sometimes part of being a good coach is recognizing the tools (players) you have and realizing that you have not been using them correctly. The yankees don't bring in players like Giambi, ARod, Sheffield, Teixiera, and even Granderson, etc., and make them play small ball; having them bunt...though granderson should be able to bunt but thats a different story for another time.

Maybe you like that grind out, rough and tumble game, and to an extent, we all do because its blue collar hockey...however, at some point you need scorers/high end players because the point is to win a Stanley Cup. It forces you to bring in outside players. And I gotta say star players that are pure two-way players are far and few between. The stars have their flaws but you overlook them because they produce. Are the rangers players struggling right now? Yes and of course that makes gaborik and richards look real bad. But the argument here is while they may not be playing well you have to strongly consider the offensive system they are playing in. There basically isn't one. It is dump and chase.

Gaborik was not a dump and chase player in Minnesota I can guarantee that. But now he constantly is trying to dump pucks into corners and go around players. And as bad as richards has looked, as a playmaker/passer, when he is carrying the puck in the neutral zone, there is no momentum from his surrounding teammates going towards the opposing D zone to dish the puck so they can break in without dumping it. It is because they are trained to look for the dump in. And you can attack richards and gaborik all you want but look at the beginning of the year when Nash and MDZ were on the PP with Gaborik and Richards. WITH AN EXTRA MAN and some of the most talented players in the league on the ice, they could not carry the puck in the zone or maybe they just did not want to. What does that tell you? Nash a 30 goal power forward scorer, Gaborik a 40 goal sniper, Del Zotto a 40 point defenseman who skates very well, all can't carry the puck into the zone? C'mon stop being so naive. It is tortorella. He needs to change or he needs to go.

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02-25-2013, 01:59 PM
  #373
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disapproval rating for Torts the Clown is rising with each loss / missed scoring opportunity and loss. The dark side of the force is strong and consuming the NYR fan base . Torts haters if the world unite and take over !!!
Fire Torts

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02-25-2013, 02:07 PM
  #374
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slowly the worm is turning.

many good comments here. many of us have been beating the same drum.

torts continues to coach this team as though we are lacking players with the ability to create offense. the result is a system that stifles offense and sacrifices the teams ability to back up its opponent by always dumping pucks deep and chasing rather than attacking with speed and passing. problem is, we rarely come away with the pucks. all we do is turn it over and play defense.

its as though no matter who we have playing, the system dictates that we must all be grinders and cyclers first and always stay high and play defense first.

these guys are all holding their sticks too tight, they are too mechanical, and to a man, they are all fighting the game.

forget the pp. the only true offensive part of the game and we are clueless. we even dump and chase with the man up. you cant make this stuff up.

as ive said before, this team could flourish with a coach who just says.. "go out and play hockey".

torts must go.

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02-25-2013, 02:19 PM
  #375
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disapproval rating for Torts the Clown is rising with each loss / missed scoring opportunity and loss. The dark side of the force is strong and consuming the NYR fan base . Torts haters if the world unite and take over !!!
Fire Torts
When we make a strong run you're not allowed back on the bandwagon

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