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The Lars Eller Thread - Coffee Shop Edition

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Old
02-24-2013, 05:39 PM
  #801
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Actually it does. Thank you.

We all know you have an agenda against Eller but this year he doesn't give you much opportunity to bash him except the Islanders game, and you did jumped on that opportunity.

Maybe I was too hard on you, maybe you're not an hypocrite, maybe you've just started to see Eller's potential, which is a good thing.
...Why do anybody that doesn't see eye-to-eye with the HFBOARDS choir NECESSARILY have an agenda against Eller?

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02-24-2013, 05:52 PM
  #802
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...Why do anybody that doesn't see eye-to-eye with the HFBOARDS choir NECESSARILY have an agenda against Eller?
Why are we are a "choir" because we don't think Eller should play on the 4th line and that we don't think he is a scrub who has no potential?

The thing is, Eller is young. He's what 23? He's only in his 3rd nhl season. He improved leaps and bounds in his second year compared to his first (and he looks to be progressing well from the last year). He had good production last season despite getting zero PP time and despite not playing with quality wingers. The numbers and actually watching the game shows he's a good puck possession player. His defensive capabilities are quite high for his age. Lastly, every single time he plays with quality linemmates (which seldom happens), he shows signs of untapped offensive potential.

So the question is, why wouldn't you defend a player against attacks regarding his potential? I have yet to see a post that says Eller will be a 1st line player or that he should be the team's #1 center, so I don't see how we can be overrating him. I do see many people saying that he shouldn't be a 4th line centre, because let's face it, he just shouldn't be, his talent is far superior to a 4th line centre.

Given the depth of the team this year, people just want him to play with quality wingers, which is not that big a demand since he doesn't have to play on the "top two" lines to play with quality players this year. I really don't see this as a big demand or an overrating of Eller. I don't see how saying any player has intriguing potential is overrating someone. What is absurd though are those who dismissing his potential out right, who refuse to see his progression, who jump on him after 1 bad game out of 12 good ones and who want him moved. That's what's absurd.

There's no doubt that right now Eller deserves to be in the role he is currently in..aka...two-way centre playing with quality wingers. Whether or not he reaches his potential is another question, but the team needs to give him the opportunities to demoinstrate whether or not he can fulfill that potential. You won't find out having him on the 4th line playing with Moen and Armstrong.

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02-24-2013, 06:10 PM
  #803
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Why are we are a "choir" because we don't think Eller should play on the 4th line and that we don't think he is a scrub who has no potential?

The thing is, Eller is young. He's what 23? He's only in his 3rd nhl season. He improved leaps and bounds in his second year compared to his first (and he looks to be progressing well from the last year). He had good production last season despite getting zero PP time and despite not playing with quality wingers. The numbers and actually watching the game shows he's a good puck possession player. His defensive capabilities are quite high for his age. Lastly, every single time he plays with quality linemmates (which seldom happens), he shows signs of untapped offensive potential.

So the question is, why wouldn't you defend a player against attacks regarding his potential? I have yet to see a post that says Eller will be a 1st line player or that he should be the team's #1 center, so I don't see how we can be overrating him. I do see many people saying that he shouldn't be a 4th line centre, because let's face it, he just shouldn't be, his talent is far superior to a 4th line centre.

Given the depth of the team this year, people just want him to play with quality wingers, which is not that big a demand since he doesn't have to play on the "top two" lines to play with quality players this year. I really don't see this as a big demand or an overrating of Eller. I don't see how saying any player has intriguing potential is overrating someone. What is absurd though are those who dismissing his potential out right, who refuse to see his progression, who jump on him after 1 bad game out of 12 good ones and who want him moved. That's what's absurd.

There's no doubt that right now Eller deserves to be in the role he is currently in..aka...two-way centre playing with quality wingers. Whether or not he reaches his potential is another question, but the team needs to give him the opportunities to demoinstrate whether or not he can fulfill that potential. You won't find out having him on the 4th line playing with Moen and Armstrong.
Well, it's obviously impossible to say anything against what you said -- many truths out there.

Three things, though :

+ Lars Eller can possibly end up playing Center on the 4th line, especially if the regular center on that line is scratched, By virtue of the team having only 5 centers at the moment, unless you really want to push it and consider Prust/Armstrong at C. And as we know, White was scratched at some point.

+ Actually, the lower a player is on a depth chart, the better it is for the TEAM... no? I mean, I'd rather have Plekanec as the 2nd line center, or even the third center, than as the first line center. But with this very team, he's the first line center until further notice. I just don't understand why Eller as the be the highest possible on the depth chart. If anything, Eller being low on the depth chart means that we have really, really good depth...

+ Besides, where can he play? Plekanec plays really well since the beginning of the season. DD just started play decent hockey for more than two straight games. Galchenyuk is to be groomed as a center, and thus, must play center; and it's not like he's been bad. Thus, the 4th line spot and a winger spot in the Top-9 remains for Eller. TBH, I missed saturday's game -- did Eller play center?

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02-24-2013, 06:16 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Well, it's obviously impossible to say anything against what you said -- many truths out there.

Three things, though :

+ Lars Eller can possibly end up playing Center on the 4th line, especially if the regular center on that line is scratched, By virtue of the team having only 5 centers at the moment, unless you really want to push it and consider Prust/Armstrong at C. And as we know, White was scratched at some point.

+ Actually, the lower a player is on a depth chart, the better it is for the TEAM... no? I mean, I'd rather have Plekanec as the 2nd line center, or even the third center, than as the first line center. But with this very team, he's the first line center until further notice. I just don't understand why Eller as the be the highest possible on the depth chart. If anything, Eller being low on the depth chart means that we have really, really good depth...

+ Besides, where can he play? Plekanec plays really well since the beginning of the season. DD just started play decent hockey for more than two straight games. Galchenyuk is to be groomed as a center, and thus, must play center; and it's not like he's been bad. Thus, the 4th line spot and a winger spot in the Top-9 remains for Eller. TBH, I missed saturday's game -- did Eller play center?
Because Eller is still developing. Keeping on the 4th line is not exploiting his talents and not allowing him to develop his game, you might hinder growth.

Also you are assuming that having Eller on the 4th line makes the team better overall than having Eller of the 3rd line and a centre at wing. Your also assuming that Eller with quality wingers will be producing less than our other centres.

Too many assumptions to say that the team with Eller on 4th line means they are a good team. Having higher on the depth chart can make the team even better. It provides another scoring threat in the top 9. It means that we don't have 2 centres in the top 9 who need to get soft opposition (desharnais and Galchenyuk). Therrien said yesterday that Galchenyuk was moved back to wing because he is not yet ready for defensive responsibilities.

There are many reasons for keeping Eller in the top 9. Many more reasons that keeping him on the 4th line. On the 4th line means he gets less ice-time, which means he gets less time positively contribute to the team, which he can.

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02-24-2013, 06:23 PM
  #805
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Because Eller is still developing. Keeping on the 4th line is not exploiting his talents and not allowing him to develop his game, you might hinder growth.

Also you are assuming that having Eller on the 4th line makes the team better overall than having Eller of the 3rd line and a centre at wing. Your also assuming that Eller with quality wingers will be producing less than our other centres.

Too many assumptions to say that the team with Eller on 4th line means they are a good team. Having higher on the depth chart can make the team even better. It provides another scoring threat in the top 9. It means that we don't have 2 centres in the top 9 who need to get soft opposition (desharnais and Galchenyuk). Therrien said yesterday that Galchenyuk was moved back to wing because he is not yet ready for defensive responsibilities.

There are many reasons for keeping Eller in the top 9. Many more reasons that keeping him on the 4th line. On the 4th line means he gets less ice-time, which means he gets less time positively contribute to the team, which he can.
Well, the thing is, the team is also grooming Galchenyuk, so if it comes down to having Galchenyuk or Eller at Center... well, I'd really rather have Galchenyuk to be honest.

The "move back Gally to wing" for now basically opens a Center spot for Eller, so it's kindof a moot point otherwise. If anything, if Gally DOESN'T play center, then Eller does (in the Top-9). That's pretty obvious.

I think you missed my explanation for the depth chart, though... If a player is, say, 4th on the depth chart, it means there are three players ahead of him. Three better players. That 4th guy could be 2nd on a bad team and 7th on a better team. Hence my thesis that the lower a player is on the depth chart, the better it is for the team.

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02-24-2013, 06:23 PM
  #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Actually it does. Thank you.

We all know you have an agenda against Eller but this year he doesn't give you much opportunity to bash him except the Islanders game, and you did jumped on that opportunity.

Maybe I was too hard on you, maybe you're not an hypocrite, maybe you've just started to see Eller's potential, which is a good thing.
I typed a couple of replies to your post. And then deleted them. None of them came out sounding right.

I think that the following reply is appropriate though.......



The internets is serious business.

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Old
02-24-2013, 06:29 PM
  #807
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Let's see what Therrien can do with the kids. Up to now, he is doing a great job with all of them. They are developing during this season... something I did not see before for a long time.

This season the positives:

Subban: hide him in the depth chart so he can work on his weaknesses and gain a top-2 spot. To be honest, having Markov healthy helps to do that.

Eller: plagued with inconsistent play and lack of finish previous years. Not like he is 18 or 19 anymore. Apparently, Therrien and Eller found a way to make it work this year. Let's hope consistent play and improved finish will allow the Habs to have a nice kid line in the near future:

Gallagher-Galchenyuk-Eller

but mostly, I like that he seems this year to care more when he plays: I mean it seems he fights more for the play, the puck. Previous years, he could play many games floating a la Kostitsyn.

Price:

With a good system, Price faces a low amount of shots per game, so he does not get
as tired. Maybe bored but at least not tired. Price can regain confidence knowing there is a team system in front of him. Not having to deal with low fives of Subban also helps... Good goalies like a team system in front of them (Roy, Brodeur).

Bourque:

Since he returned healthy, he has a much better work ethic. Therrien's system fits well with him. Nice surprise.

Plekanec:

Looks like he will have a good half-season. An "on" year.

Markov:

Honestly, did not know what to expect. Even slower, he is so smart and that first pass is such a blessing for the team.

Galchenyuk and Gallagher

Too early to tell, but I am again very surprised. Rookies can slow down so we will see.


Uncertain:

Cole:

Will he do like last year and speeds things up after a slow start? Or will he pulled an early retirement type season?

Desharnais-Pacioretty:

Last games are the real deal? Hopefully yes.

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Old
02-24-2013, 07:14 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Well, the thing is, the team is also grooming Galchenyuk, so if it comes down to having Galchenyuk or Eller at Center... well, I'd really rather have Galchenyuk to be honest.

The "move back Gally to wing" for now basically opens a Center spot for Eller, so it's kindof a moot point otherwise. If anything, if Gally DOESN'T play center, then Eller does (in the Top-9). That's pretty obvious.

I think you missed my explanation for the depth chart, though... If a player is, say, 4th on the depth chart, it means there are three players ahead of him. Three better players. That 4th guy could be 2nd on a bad team and 7th on a better team. Hence my thesis that the lower a player is on the depth chart, the better it is for the team.
The thing is, Eller is already good defensively and his faceoffs, while not good, are improving from last year. Which matters more for centers. I'd rather Gally at this point focus on his offensive game, which he can do perfectly fine on the wing. Plus getting him to be comfortable at multiple positions is a good thing. Gally is 19, there is absolutely no reason to give him the responsibilites of a two way center right now when we have Plekanec and Eller on this team.

I think on a deep team playing on the 3rd line is not an insult. The 4th line is another story, a player with some offensive upside like Eller should not be playing on the 4th line, at that point we might as well trade him. Not to disrespect 4th liners because I have nothing but love for White and Moen, but it pretty much writes off Eller as nothing more than he is right now.

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02-24-2013, 07:48 PM
  #809
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I wonder if the perception of Eller is inversely proportional to that of Desharnais?
Is this polarizing the fan base akin to Price v Halak?
If you perceive Eller's value as higher does that mean you see Desharnais' as lower?

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02-24-2013, 07:50 PM
  #810
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I wonder if the perception of Eller is inversely proportional to that of Desharnais?
Is this polarizing the fan base akin to Price v Halak?
If you perceive Eller's value as higher does that mean you see Desharnais' as lower?
Yes. They cannot co-exist. There can only be one. One center to rule them all.

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02-24-2013, 07:54 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
I wonder if the perception of Eller is inversely proportional to that of Desharnais?
Is this polarizing the fan base akin to Price v Halak?
If you perceive Eller's value as higher does that mean you see Desharnais' as lower?
There's only a limited number of C spots in hockey

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02-24-2013, 07:59 PM
  #812
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Then I say keep Eller and deal Desharnais

Fanbase has been clamoring for size down the middle and now that we got it lets get rid of it because we got a little guy who needs to be insulated by two big bodies BUT has vision!!!

No thanks, Eller any time. He can play 2nd 3rd or 4th line minutes and roles.

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02-24-2013, 08:01 PM
  #813
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A center logjam is the best logjam to have in hockey. Bruins had one, Kings had one with Carter.

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02-24-2013, 08:03 PM
  #814
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Then I say keep Eller and deal Desharnais

Fanbase has been clamoring for size down the middle and now that we got it lets get rid of it because we got a little guy who needs to be insulated by two big bodies BUT has vision!!!

No thanks, Eller any time. He can play 2nd 3rd or 4th line minutes and roles.
Don't need to deal him, need to move him to the wing. We have NO winger that can pass the puck.

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02-24-2013, 08:07 PM
  #815
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Don't need to deal him, need to move him to the wing. We have NO winger that can pass the puck.
gallagher has surprised me with a few nifty passes, but you're pretty much right. All our wingers are pretty pass retarded.

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02-24-2013, 08:09 PM
  #816
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gallagher has surprised me with a few nifty passes, but you're pretty much right. All our wingers are pretty pass retarded.
Him and the Wolverine are about the only one who can dish one out without throwing it in the stands, but we don't have that Tanguay/St-Louis presence on our wings. Heck we don't even have that many great passer on our whole team... We got a good one let's keep him.

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02-24-2013, 08:22 PM
  #817
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Well, the thing is, the team is also grooming Galchenyuk, so if it comes down to having Galchenyuk or Eller at Center... well, I'd really rather have Galchenyuk to be honest.

The "move back Gally to wing" for now basically opens a Center spot for Eller, so it's kindof a moot point otherwise. If anything, if Gally DOESN'T play center, then Eller does (in the Top-9). That's pretty obvious.

I think you missed my explanation for the depth chart, though... If a player is, say, 4th on the depth chart, it means there are three players ahead of him. Three better players. That 4th guy could be 2nd on a bad team and 7th on a better team. Hence my thesis that the lower a player is on the depth chart, the better it is for the team.
Eller has no business playing on our fourth line. It doesn't matter if we have 3 centers that are ahead of him. If his wingers are other skilled players, then it'd be okay, but if not he should not be centering two grinders. Not only are we pushing back someone that can contribute more than players supposedly ahead of him, but it's also not the best idea for his development.

To me, at the beginning of the season, Eller and DD were almost on the same playing field. Last year, DD got the treatment Eller should have also gotten, meaning, play with skilled wingers and get PP time. AK and him formed a great duo, they should have never been separated, except Cunneyworth was just in way over his head and completely lost sense.

This year, Eller has been our 2nd best center, yet he constantly have to earn more ice time over less deserving players.

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02-24-2013, 09:21 PM
  #818
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Eller has no business playing on our fourth line. It doesn't matter if we have 3 centers that are ahead of him. If his wingers are other skilled players, then it'd be okay, but if not he should not be centering two grinders. Not only are we pushing back someone that can contribute more than players supposedly ahead of him, but it's also not the best idea for his development.

To me, at the beginning of the season, Eller and DD were almost on the same playing field. Last year, DD got the treatment Eller should have also gotten, meaning, play with skilled wingers and get PP time. AK and him formed a great duo, they should have never been separated, except Cunneyworth was just in way over his head and completely lost sense.

This year, Eller has been our 2nd best center, yet he constantly have to earn more ice time over less deserving players.
Key word bolded.

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02-24-2013, 09:25 PM
  #819
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Key word bolded.
This doesnt mean much you know ?

I think the majority of people agree with this.
Why are you hating on Eller after such a game

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02-24-2013, 09:28 PM
  #820
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I wonder if the perception of Eller is inversely proportional to that of Desharnais?
Is this polarizing the fan base akin to Price v Halak?
If you perceive Eller's value as higher does that mean you see Desharnais' as lower?
Hockey is not a zero sum game. Just because one player performs does not mean that another player will perform less in correlation.

Each player determines their own success.

Fans opinions of players does not matter one bit. That's why I got a chuckle from the word "agenda" being used on this thread. Like any of us have any power to influence the outcome of what happens with the Montreal Canadiens on or off the ice.

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02-24-2013, 09:32 PM
  #821
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Hockey is not a zero sum game. Just because one player performs does not mean that another player will perform less in correlation.

Each player determines their own success.

Fans opinions of players does not matter one bit. That's why I got a chuckle from the word "agenda" being used on this thread. Like any of us have any power to influence the outcome of what happens with the Montreal Canadiens on or off the ice.
That's not really true, theres the coach, linemates, other opposition and ice time factor in too.

Now... Eller had that pretty much all in the negative... And he still succeeded...

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02-24-2013, 09:36 PM
  #822
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Key word bolded.
Yes, as opposed to..to you, or to someone else..
Everybody has an opinion.

But I don't think you need to be a genius to figure out Eller should play with skilled wingers to see just what he can do.

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02-24-2013, 09:39 PM
  #823
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Yes, as opposed to..to you, or to someone else..
Everybody has an opinion.

But I don't think you need to be a genius to figure out Eller should play with skilled wingers to see just what he can do.
As opposed to an NHL Head Coach?

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02-24-2013, 09:40 PM
  #824
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That's not really true, theres the coach, linemates, other opposition and ice time factor in too.

Now... Eller had that pretty much all in the negative... And he still succeeded...
Again, for one more time.

Name in the back is what matters.

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02-24-2013, 09:40 PM
  #825
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As opposed to an NHL Head Coach?
Do I need to bring in Darche/Pyatt-JM connection ? Or Moen/Darche-RC ?

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