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Trade Rumor Thread IV - "What's all the roar over RoR?"

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:02 PM
  #626
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
If McD and Girardi are both hurt long term, the season is not recoverable. You MUST look at moving Gabby and Richie (if they'll waive those damn NMCSs).

I don't regret the Nash trade for one second, but who ever thought the 1st would've been the most valuable asset going back to CLB...?
I thought it was important and valuable.
Made various suggestions.

Seem to remember mostly wanted to do Stepan + Redden + 2 of Erixon or Dubi or a lower (2nd?) pick or picks
for
Nash

Redden would be justified in a construct where upwards of 80 mil was coming this way.
We lose Stepan, but we keep Anisimov + the first, and have flexibility of added compliance.

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:05 PM
  #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Rash View Post
If Girardi, McDonagh and Nash are all out long-term, we might as well start a fire sale
We shouldn't jump to this conclusion, but we certainly should consider it with an open mind.

No sacred cows.

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:07 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by Beardacus View Post
Trade Torts.

I've been sick of the dump and chase, shot blocking, no consistent lines ******** for a while. It boiled over after tonights game.

I want to see some real aggressive hockey being played. Exciting hockey.
don't wait for trade partner
FIRE TORTS NOW!

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:12 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
such short-sighted stupidity imho.

absolutely no interest whatsoever in trading one of our defenseman.

This team has the pieces, i am 100% sure of that, they just need to start effing playing.

It starts with Ryan Callahan, Brad Richards, Marc Staal, and Marian Gaborik.

All of them need to be a whole HELL of a lot better.
Disagree. Richards the only one of those 4 not pulling his weight.

Change system to change team.
Additional moves, yes, but move Girardi + Stepan for cheaper upgrade

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:16 PM
  #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
How much ya wanna bet we have a new defender by Tuesday?
Thinking Murray or Whitney...
Murray --- Ok at the right price, if dirt, dirt cheap. Accpetable as stopgap. Too slow, strong will clear crease. Possibly complementary with Gilroy.


or Whitney DO NOT WANT at any price.
Would give TYSEN DOWZAK a shot before Whit...

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:24 PM
  #631
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Just for entertainment purposes

To
Callahan
Boyle
Miller/Kreider
2014 2nd

To
Pavelski
Boyle
Handzus

To
Brad Richards

To
Radek Faska
2013 First Round Pick
Tomas Vincour

To
Michael Del Zotto
Christian Thomas

to
Ryan O'Reilly
Stefan Elliott

To
Kreider/Miller

To
Glencross

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Glencross-O'Reilly-Gaborik
Pyatt-Pavelski-Vincour
Powe-Halpern-Asham
Bickel

Staal-Boyle
McDonagh-Girardi
Stralman-Elliot
Gilroy
No thanks to all of ^.
I meant what I said when I said no sacred cows. That includes Callahan.
Dare I suggest it even includes Hank!

However, if I'm moving Cally, even if I add, I want a premium enough young blue chip coming the other way.

Once removed from the shackles of Torts Kreider/Miller will show real results within a few weeks if they are not looking over their shoulders.

Kreider/Miller not moved except for a ridiculous return.

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:37 PM
  #632
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Would a team like Calgary or Colorado be interested in Gaborik, should the Rangers choose to shop him?

Food for thought...

To

Ryan O'Reilly
2013 1st rounder

To

Marian Gaborik

or

To

Mark Jankowski
2013 1st Rounder

To

Marian Gaborik

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:38 PM
  #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Where is this so called strong organizational depth at D?
Let's dig a little deeper.
McIlrath is not ready for the show this season. The right way to bring him up is next season after a full training camp.
But for argument's sake, let's assume that he is ready and everybody else (Except DZ since he is a luxury we don't need) is healthy.
Girardi-McD
Staal-Stralman
Gilroy-McI
Eminger (For lack of better quality)

What depth is there behind?
None,
Skjei is 2 years away at least.
You are left with Sean Collins and Mike Vernace from Hartford. Is that the organizational depth?
Oops, forgot Bickel ... Maybe he is the difference maker.

Our only saving grace is if (Big IF) Sauer comes back healthy next season.

We HAD depth, that's why we traded Tomas Kundratek to the caps, I am certain Sather wishes he can have him back.
That depth disappeared when Sauer got injured and Erixon got traded.


Finally, Here is the reason why we need better quality depth at D.
Below is the breakdown of the Rangers and the Bruins D minute distribution.
(You can try the Isles, Pens, Devils or Flyers for comparison too if you prefer, they are more balanced than ours)


Rangers
Marc Staal 24:30
Del Zotto 22:10
Dan Girardi 25:00
Ryan McDonagh 23:44
Anton Stralman 16:48
Matt Gilroy 9:52
Stu Bickel 5:36
Steve Eminger 5:52

Bruins
Dougie Hamilton 17:49
Zdeno Chara 25:20
Dennis Seidenberg 23:20
Johnny Boychuk 20:43
Andrew Ference 18:01
Adam McQuaid 14:14
Aaron Johnson 13:54


One ray of light, a bit behind though, is Sam Noreau. Admit he is only a blip well off center of the radar, but he is on the screen, IMO.

To get another top quality D, do something around Stepan + for Yandle.

a good 2 steps back, 5 steps ultimately ahead move is
Boyle + Thomas to Chicago
for
Dylan Olsen + Mark McNeil, two first rounders, a D and a C.

Can't do that now?
I don't friggin care.
Bring up Haley to 4C, move Halpern to 3C

Kreider has his entire career ahead.
WHEN this stupidity about Torts is finally over with, Kreider will be properly unshackled.

As a stop gap to get through this year, we can play Kreider, who has played C previously, at that position. Regardless of him likely eventually winding up at W, it likely would be good experience from him this year, esp. if helps generate minutes, i.e., he plays W with say Hagelin and Miller, but then takes a few minutes on a line w/Cally and presumably Hagelin.

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:39 PM
  #634
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I could see Colorado but not Calgary. Then again, they still might think theyll be able to contend and delay their rebuild for the 800th year in a row.

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:44 PM
  #635
Kwayry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
My point was we have worse depth at C than at D.
Let's take a look.

Let's first address this argument that Boyle at 3C is worse than Gilroy at 6D

Gilroy was pretty bad last night and this was the night for him to shine, if ever there was one.

You think Gilroy-Eminger pairing and Bickel at #7D is a better proposition than Brian "frigging" Boyle at 3C?

You are entitled to your opinion, but I would like to have some of what you are smoking.

We all wish Boyle had better hands and hockey IQ, but he does everything else well enough in this system.

Gilroy-Eminger on the other hand makes me want to puke.

Let's also look at this so called weak organizational depth at C.

There is Bryan Boyle, then Miller ready to step in at 3C if need be this season.

Lindberg will be up next season in Hartford and can step in case of an emergency.
(I have not watched him play, but some of our swedish posters in the prospects thread are raving about him).

There is also Jean who is already in Hartford and made the top 10 rangers prospects list.

We have St Croix and Nieves in the pipeline. They both made the top 10 list, they won't be ready for at least 2 years.

It looks to me there is a stronger organizational depth at C than at D. The only point i will concede is the top end quality at C is not there YET.

If you want to upgrade at 3C, which I agree with, you shouldn't poach the weak defensive depth at D, but use Boyle + picks and a couple of B prospects as trade chips. It won't get you RoR, but it can get you an upgrade.
But I keep going to this, if this team's only problem is Boyle at 3C, it should be a contender.

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Old
02-24-2013, 02:55 PM
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Boyle if the return is high enough. He's flawed but earning his keep.

Boyle + Thomas + small pick to Chicago for former first rounders D Dylan Olsen and C Mark McNeil, who should be competing as early as next year.
One of your better proposals. I doubt the Hawks would do it, but it is definitely something I'd consider.
Adds D depth and McNeil under Torts would make him more physical.
If nothing else, it adds more attractive assets for bigger trades.

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Old
02-24-2013, 04:01 PM
  #637
SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Let's take a look.

Let's first address this argument that Boyle at 3C is worse than Gilroy at 6D

Gilroy was pretty bad last night and this was the night for him to shine, if ever there was one.

You think Gilroy-Eminger pairing and Bickel at #7D is a better proposition than Brian "frigging" Boyle at 3C?

You are entitled to your opinion, but I would like to have some of what you are smoking.

We all wish Boyle had better hands and hockey IQ, but he does everything else well enough in this system.

Gilroy-Eminger on the other hand makes me want to puke.

Let's also look at this so called weak organizational depth at C.

There is Bryan Boyle, then Miller ready to step in at 3C if need be this season.

Lindberg will be up next season in Hartford and can step in case of an emergency.
(I have not watched him play, but some of our swedish posters in the prospects thread are raving about him).

There is also Jean who is already in Hartford and made the top 10 rangers prospects list.

We have St Croix and Nieves in the pipeline. They both made the top 10 list, they won't be ready for at least 2 years.

It looks to me there is a stronger organizational depth at C than at D. The only point i will concede is the top end quality at C is not there YET.

If you want to upgrade at 3C, which I agree with, you shouldn't poach the weak defensive depth at D, but use Boyle + picks and a couple of B prospects as trade chips. It won't get you RoR, but it can get you an upgrade.
But I keep going to this, if this team's only problem is Boyle at 3C, it should be a contender.
I like how McIlrath is a guy that you don't count as defensive depth but you count guys like St Croix and Jean. McIlrath is closer than all of these guys. Nieves is an interesting prospect but he's closer to Brady than anything, a college freshman. Miller hasn't shown anything. You brought up a bunch of guys that likely won't be anything. Lindberg probably will never be any better than a 3C. Ola, who I sometimes take with a grain of thought because he's always super negative said he might not even make it in the NHL. Once again at center you have Richards who is old and may get bought out, a good player in Stepan, and then what? Richards is playing like **** anyway now. As early as next year you may have only Stepan. At D you have 3 players better than Stepan (and MDZ). Boyle is a TERRIBLE 3C. Just terrible. Gilroy sucked yesterday? How about the great defensive Boyle coughing up the puck on of the goals? If he can't get the puck out of the zone and doesn't bring any speed or offense what is he good at? Boyle-Eminger isn't ideal (I still hold out hope that we bring in McIlrath at some point and he sticks), but neither is Boyle at 3C. I'd say Richards at 1C and Boyle at 3C is worse. Though we can't do anything about Richards yet.

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Old
02-24-2013, 05:26 PM
  #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I like how McIlrath is a guy that you don't count as defensive depth but you count guys like St Croix and Jean.
Huh?
Read the post again. I did better than count him as defensive depth, I had him starting.
And you are missing the big picture, behind him there is nobody.
Either you didn't read my posts or are twisting my words. Which is it?
This is what I said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
McIlrath is not ready for the show this season. The right way to bring him up is next season after a full training camp.
But for argument's sake, let's assume that he is ready and everybody else (Except DZ since he is a luxury we don't need) is healthy.
Girardi-McD
Staal-Stralman
Gilroy-McI
Eminger (For lack of better quality)
------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Miller hasn't shown anything.
I disagree, he showed he belonged, does he have few things to work on? Sure, but he has the skills and the body to be productive 3C in the NHL.
Kreider-Miller-Cally looked pretty good 3rd line early on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
You brought up a bunch of guys that likely won't be anything
That's your opinion. The point was we have enough center depth in the pipeline that if a couple of them pan out, we are good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Lindberg probably will never be any better than a 3C.
Yeah, so? We are discussing upgrade at 3C.
And what I said was Lindberg will be up in the AHL and come play in the NHL in a pinch.

As to the rest of your post, it gets confusing to follow your logic. You go on a rant about Richards sucking, which I agree with but is a different story.
We have gone from let's use the defensive depth to fix our 3C, to 3C is more important than 6D, to we need to replace 1C.
Make up your mind man.
I think we have gone as far as we could on this.
1- There is no defensive depth that we can afford to trade away.
2- There is enough C depth in the pipeline to replace Boyle.
3- There is no top end C depth in the pipeline yet.
4- Boyle at 3C is not the worst problem this team has.
If you disagree, you are entitled to your opinion.

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Old
02-24-2013, 06:08 PM
  #639
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I hate to get into the multiple trade fantasy land.... BUT... here I go...!

MDZ + Thomas + 3rd for RoR and Barrie

Stepan + Kreider + 3rd for Yandle and Korpedo (Phx needs a center)


You keep Richards until the summer of 2014, then buy him out... that gives you 2 years to find a replacement center.

Hagelin - Richards - Nash
Gabby/Korp - RoR - Callahan
Pyatt - Miller - Korp/Gabby
Powe - Halpern - Asham/Boyle

McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - Barrie
Yandle - Stralman
(Best defense in hockey)

Hank

May have to move Gaborik prior to next season for a cheaper option.. a youngish center or a package of picks/prospects that can be used to acquire one...


Last edited by Barnaby: 02-24-2013 at 09:29 PM.
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Old
02-24-2013, 06:26 PM
  #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
Would a team like Calgary or Colorado be interested in Gaborik, should the Rangers choose to shop him?

Food for thought...

To

Ryan O'Reilly
2013 1st rounder

To

Marian Gaborik

or

To

Mark Jankowski
2013 1st Rounder

To

Marian Gaborik
I remember Feester was very high on Jankowski on the draft day so I assume that's a no.

The other one looks solid, only thing is that we would be "too" deep at center and too weak at the wing.

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Old
02-24-2013, 09:26 PM
  #641
Barnaby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
Would a team like Calgary or Colorado be interested in Gaborik, should the Rangers choose to shop him?

Food for thought...

To

Ryan O'Reilly
2013 1st rounder

To

Marian Gaborik

or

To

Mark Jankowski
2013 1st Rounder

To

Marian Gaborik
The first deal doesn't happen bc the Avs are building a young team. They aren't making the playoffs this year (so they aren't dealing their 1st), and they won't be a contender next year so Gaborik makes no sense to them. Also, they highly covet young defense.

Calgary is dead last in their division, so again - they aren't dealing their first (possible lottery pick) for 2 years of Gaborik that won't get them into the playoffs anyway. If anything, they deal Iginla for youth - not acquire Gaborik.

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Old
02-24-2013, 09:30 PM
  #642
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
I hate to get into the multiple trade fantasy land.... BUT... here I go...!
.... Stepan + Kreider + 3rd for Yandle and Korpedo

You keep Richards until the summer of 2014, then buy him out... that gives you 2 years to find a replacement center. ...
1. No need to add Kreider, who is a keeper.
2, Price on Yandel is Stepan. Yogan, St. Croix + a 2nd

We move Richards ASAP.
Hoping that's less than 2 full years.

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02-24-2013, 09:33 PM
  #643
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Per Adrain Dater Rangers scouts are tHe Avs/Ducks game tonight.

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Old
02-24-2013, 09:41 PM
  #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
1. No need to add Kreider, who is a keeper.
2, Price on Yandel is Stepan. Yogan, St. Croix + a 2nd

We move Richards ASAP.
Hoping that's less than 2 full years.
They don't need to trade Yandle... you need to entice them so Stepan and Kreider or Miller. I think Miller will be the better NHL'er so I keep Miller. Korpikoski is fast and can score 15-20 goals plus PK.

Yandle is great... Yogan, St. Croix, a 2nd? These additions don't get you anything. Would you deal Staal if a major part of the package was a 2nd, Yogan and St. Croix? Obviously not. You'd say come back when I can't say no.

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Old
02-24-2013, 09:56 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
One of your better proposals. I doubt the Hawks would do it, but it is definitely something I'd consider.
Adds D depth and McNeil under Torts would make him more physical.
If nothing else, it adds more attractive assets for bigger trades.
Thank you.
I've been pushing this for some time w/their base, who were 50-50 before.

Now that they are MORE likely to do it, because they are clicking on all cylinders w/o Olsen, and still have Clenndening in reserve on the way up. McNeil is far enough down the depth chart to be surplus inventory they can afford to move.

I'm not aware of too many people opposed to this particular proposal.
We should talk it up a bit and if that's the consensus, see if Hawks would go for it now.
They may be looking for a small pickup prior to playoffs, and Boyle, believe it or not, is it.

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Old
02-24-2013, 10:22 PM
  #646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Per Adrain Dater Rangers scouts are tHe Avs/Ducks game tonight.
Ught oh!


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Old
02-24-2013, 10:35 PM
  #647
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Huh?
Read the post again. I did better than count him as defensive depth, I had him starting.
And you are missing the big picture, behind him there is nobody.
Either you didn't read my posts or are twisting my words. Which is it?
This is what I said.


------------------------


I disagree, he showed he belonged, does he have few things to work on? Sure, but he has the skills and the body to be productive 3C in the NHL.
Kreider-Miller-Cally looked pretty good 3rd line early on.



That's your opinion. The point was we have enough center depth in the pipeline that if a couple of them pan out, we are good.


Yeah, so? We are discussing upgrade at 3C.
And what I said was Lindberg will be up in the AHL and come play in the NHL in a pinch.

As to the rest of your post, it gets confusing to follow your logic. You go on a rant about Richards sucking, which I agree with but is a different story.
We have gone from let's use the defensive depth to fix our 3C, to 3C is more important than 6D, to we need to replace 1C.
Make up your mind man.
I think we have gone as far as we could on this.
1- There is no defensive depth that we can afford to trade away.
2- There is enough C depth in the pipeline to replace Boyle.
3- There is no top end C depth in the pipeline yet.
4- Boyle at 3C is not the worst problem this team has.
If you disagree, you are entitled to your opinion.
1) My bad, I guess I missed you starting McIlrath.

2) Miller has shown very little outside of his first 2 games and this is coming from someone that defended him to no end in the beginning. McIlrath is the Miller of D. A little behind him because he hasn't played yet while Miller has and I think they have a similar chance of becoming good players in the NHL. After Miller there are a bunch of question marks like there are at D. I guess we have a few more bodies but they're all question marks. Lindberg was a minor trade that seems to have been playing well, but who knows what he'll be? Nieves is still a project. St. Croix, Jean? How do you know what they'll be?

3) We don't even know if Lindberg will play this year. So keep that in mind if you're thinking of only this year. We don't know anything of him or if he's good to play at #3C this year. If you're thinking beyond this year like I am, we need more than 1 top 2 center with Richards being old and underperforming.

4) Am I not allowed to believe that we should get someone like ROR for more reason than 1? This year we need someone to replace Boyle. In the long term we need another top 6 center. We technically need a #1 because I doubt Richards stays that long and if he does I doubt he can be a #1 center. LAST YEAR he produced more like a #2 center (a good #2 but a #2) and that's with Gaborik in beast mode. This year he's worse. Long term we need to get at least another top 6 center.

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Old
02-24-2013, 10:38 PM
  #648
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Trading Gaborik is silly. You aren't going to get a roster player of equal value so the team will automatically be less skilled. What you will get is immediate cap space and a pick. He's off the books after 2014 anyway. But we are not rebuilding. If cap space is your priority the only high end player to consider trading is Richards. His production can be replaced at the level he is in now, and the cap space over the next 8(!) years is invaluable.

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Old
02-24-2013, 10:52 PM
  #649
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Originally Posted by TrueBlue9 View Post
Trading Gaborik is silly. You aren't going to get a roster player of equal value so the team will automatically be less skilled. What you will get is immediate cap space and a pick. He's off the books after 2014 anyway. But we are not rebuilding. If cap space is your priority the only high end player to consider trading is Richards. His production can be replaced at the level he is in now, and the cap space over the next 8(!) years is invaluable.
Richards has a NMC and a killer contract. The only way they get rid of him is by an amnesty buyout.

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Old
02-24-2013, 10:52 PM
  #650
Burlington Bomb 26
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How about Steve Downie as a sparkplug type guy? Say the Rangers do indeed trade for ROR.

ROR and Downie for Boyle, Del Zotto, 3rd

and then send a pick to Ottawa for Gonchar

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Downie-Richards-Gaborik
Kreider-O'Reilly-Callahan
Asham-Halpern-Powe

send Miller down to AHL where he belongs, along with Mashinter and Thomas

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