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Old
02-24-2013, 08:02 AM
  #251
PhlyerPhanatic
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
One player doesn't win a title.
But buying one player sure makes your title look a wee bit tainted.

I'll stick with my point

...Earn it...Deserve it.

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02-24-2013, 11:47 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
My brother says he gets through the tunnel in 20 minutes. I have Lions season's tickets and I've never been through that tunnel in less the 40 minutes.
You should leave earlier or something... the only times I wait more than 20 in the tunnel is when I am running late for a Tigers/Wings game. Most of the time I never wait more than 10-15 minutes, and if I beat the rush coming home from a game I am through in literally 5 minutes.

I'm not really getting this travel argument, unless we are just isolating it to the OHL event. Of course the GTA arenas are going to be better options for travel. But look at Rimouski, Shawinigan, Brandon... - were those places easily accessible and very convenient to get to? Wherever the Memorial Cup is hosted, people will find a way to go. Just don't see how it's that big of an issue.

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02-24-2013, 04:56 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by doogie24 View Post
But look at Rimouski, Shawinigan, Brandon... - were those places easily accessible and very convenient to get to? Wherever the Memorial Cup is hosted, people will find a way to go. Just don't see how it's that big of an issue.
Great points. And hey, didn't the Spitfires win Memorial Cups in Rimouski and Brandon?

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02-24-2013, 05:01 PM
  #254
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Quote:
We'll just skip this.
No, if you're going to say something, say something. Cam Fowler didn't win us the title; a couple dozen guys did. You take Fowler away, you've still got a Cup-calibre team.

As far as Memorial Cup traveling - the Detroit/Windsor border is very much hit-and-miss. I've been there when it's an hour delay, and I've been there when you're in-and-out in five minutes. All depends on when you go and which crossing you use.

My buddies and I went to both Rimouski and Brandon; 15-20 hour drives each...and each way. Not the easiest places to get to, but sometimes that's the fun part. The games are simply icing on the Cup.

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02-24-2013, 05:07 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
No, if you're going to say something, say something. Cam Fowler didn't win us the title; a couple dozen guys did. You take Fowler away, you've still got a Cup-calibre team.

As far as Memorial Cup traveling - the Detroit/Windsor border is very much hit-and-miss. I've been there when it's an hour delay, and I've been there when you're in-and-out in five minutes. All depends on when you go and which crossing you use.

My buddies and I went to both Rimouski and Brandon; 15-20 hour drives each...and each way. Not the easiest places to get to, but sometimes that's the fun part. The games are simply icing on the Cup.
I agree re Fowler although he was not one of the violations cited,Branch said the violations occurred after the 2009 season,it did involve one player who was on the 09 team,but the violation occurred the following season,the other violation apparently happened with a player who never played here
As for the location re travel as some have said the remote hosts ie Brandon had their
challenges but it all worked out in end
It should not matter whether its held in Barrie,Windsor or London,for the most part
they are hardly considered remote

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02-24-2013, 05:46 PM
  #256
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Biggest issues I found with Brandon were a lack of things to do on off-days and a very strange nightlife. Getting there wasn't overly difficult, as long as you knew where you are going, but it wasn't an overly busy town once you got there.

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02-24-2013, 06:02 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
I agree re Fowler although he was not one of the violations cited,Branch said the violations occurred after the 2009 season,it did involve one player who was on the 09 team,but the violation occurred the following season,the other violation apparently happened with a player who never played here
As for the location re travel as some have said the remote hosts ie Brandon had their
challenges but it all worked out in end
It should not matter whether its held in Barrie,Windsor or London,for the most part
they are hardly considered remote

MP and DM?

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02-24-2013, 06:10 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
MP and DM?
No

MP and AW

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Old
02-24-2013, 06:28 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by doogie24 View Post
You should leave earlier or something... the only times I wait more than 20 in the tunnel is when I am running late for a Tigers/Wings game. Most of the time I never wait more than 10-15 minutes, and if I beat the rush coming home from a game I am through in literally 5 minutes.
Leaving earlier wasn't much of an option...other than coming the night before. I would leave Barrie around 7:00 (getting up just after 6:00) which would put me at the tunnel for between 11:00 and 11:30 depending on traffic and stops.

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02-24-2013, 06:40 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by doogie24 View Post
I'm not really getting this travel argument, unless we are just isolating it to the OHL event. Of course the GTA arenas are going to be better options for travel. But look at Rimouski, Shawinigan, Brandon... - were those places easily accessible and very convenient to get to? Wherever the Memorial Cup is hosted, people will find a way to go. Just don't see how it's that big of an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
As far as Memorial Cup traveling - the Detroit/Windsor border is very much hit-and-miss. I've been there when it's an hour delay, and I've been there when you're in-and-out in five minutes. All depends on when you go and which crossing you use.

My buddies and I went to both Rimouski and Brandon; 15-20 hour drives each...and each way. Not the easiest places to get to, but sometimes that's the fun part. The games are simply icing on the Cup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
As for the location re travel as some have said the remote hosts ie Brandon had their challenges but it all worked out in end
It should not matter whether its held in Barrie,Windsor or London,for the most part
they are hardly considered remote
Please see my original post, with the key points bolded and underlined:

Quote:
Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
Airport Access

I'm not sure this is a deal breaker either (although Mississauga did mention it in their video). Of the remaining teams those with an advantage would include, in order: Ottawa, Guelph, Barrie. Honourable mentions to Oshawa and Windsor (I know Detroit is right there, but that doesn't have easy flights to most Canadian centres like Toronto and Ottawa do).
I never said Windsor was hard to get to, in fact I give it an advantage over London. Will people come anyway? Yes. I am relatively well traveled in Canada, and I would say that if I had to visit Ontario from any other province, I would prefer to travel to Barrie, then Windsor, then London in that order. I don't think it's a big deal however Mississauga did mention accessibility as part of their bid. Oh, and they WON the bid. I don't think there is much more to say on that front. Why are people from Windsor so damn defensive?

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02-24-2013, 06:40 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
No

MP and AW
I never even thought about MP. Interesting...

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02-24-2013, 06:49 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
I agree re Fowler although he was not one of the violations cited,Branch said the violations occurred after the 2009 season,it did involve one player who was on the 09 team,but the violation occurred the following season,the other violation apparently happened with a player who never played here
I understood that it was after the 2008-2009 season, and that the violation occurred in 2009-2010. I could be wrong, and if proved so will retract my comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
No, if you're going to say something, say something. Cam Fowler didn't win us the title; a couple dozen guys did. You take Fowler away, you've still got a Cup-calibre team.
Just trying to keep this thread remotely on topic. The Oilers were a great team loaded with stars in the 80s, but to suggest they would have definitevely won anything without Kevin Lowe is a bit of a stretch. They may have, they may not. I'm not even talking about the Spits beating the Colts, I'm talking about them beating the Rangers (and I don't know that the Colts would have beat them either, with the timing of the injuries to DiSalvo and Hutchings). Fowler didn't win it on his own, but if you think that he didn't make a valuable contribution and that the Spitfires would have won with an average player in his place, then we'll just agree to disagree.

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02-24-2013, 08:27 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
I'm not even talking about the Spits beating the Colts, I'm talking about them beating the Rangers (and I don't know that the Colts would have beat them either, with the timing of the injuries to DiSalvo and Hutchings). Fowler didn't win it on his own, but if you think that he didn't make a valuable contribution and that the Spitfires would have won with an average player in his place, then we'll just agree to disagree.
Let's see ... The Kitchener Rangers pushed the Spitfires to seven games in the Western Conference Finals. Then the Spitfires brushed aside the Barrie Colts in four straight games, starting just TWO days after the end of the Western Conference final. Methinks the Rangers would have beaten the Colts rather easily as well too.

It’s time that you produce your proof that Cam Fowler was one of the players the Spitfires were called up on the carpet for. Pony up and show us once and for all. No opinions just facts please.

And even IF Fowler was not with the Spits that season, his playing time would have been covered by increased time for defencemen like Ryan Ellis, Mark Cundari and Marc Cantin – all hardly average junior hockey players. Hell, even a 5th d like Harry Young would have seen more ice in the event of Fowler’s not being in the lineup. Both Ellis and Cundari had better plus/minus stats then Fowler did that season too.


So – over to you – show us the proof that Fowler was one of the players the Spitfires violated league bylaws over.


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02-24-2013, 09:17 PM
  #264
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Just trying to keep this thread remotely on topic. The Oilers were a great team loaded with stars in the 80s, but to suggest they would have definitevely won anything without Kevin Lowe is a bit of a stretch. They may have, they may not. I'm not even talking about the Spits beating the Colts, I'm talking about them beating the Rangers (and I don't know that the Colts would have beat them either, with the timing of the injuries to DiSalvo and Hutchings). Fowler didn't win it on his own, but if you think that he didn't make a valuable contribution and that the Spitfires would have won with an average player in his place, then we'll just agree to disagree.
I'm not saying he didn't make a valuable contribution. I'm saying that if you take away one player on a title team, while you increase your chances of losing, you don't necessarily lose the series. Fowler did not win that series on his own. The team Windsor had that year, when they were on their game, was insanely good. Key word there being "team."

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02-24-2013, 09:37 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
I'm not saying he didn't make a valuable contribution. I'm saying that if you take away one player on a title team, while you increase your chances of losing, you don't necessarily lose the series. Fowler did not win that series on his own. The team Windsor had that year, when they were on their game, was insanely good. Key word there being "team."
Wasn't he one of the stars in one of the elimination games against the Rangers? Somebody else might have stepped to deliver the same calibre of performance, but it's just as likely they would have been eliminated.

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Originally Posted by Percyma View Post
Then the Spitfires brushed aside the Barrie Colts in four straight games, starting just TWO days after the end of the Western Conference final. Methinks the Rangers would have beaten the Colts rather easily as well too.
Other than the rather easily part, I said the same thing. With the injuries the Colts had, it is probably the Rangers who got jobbed.

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So – over to you – show us the proof that Fowler was one of the players the Spitfires violated league bylaws over.
Never said I had proof. I've heard things, but that's hardly proof. Maybe you can prove he wasn't? Here's one thing Spitfires fans should be pleased about - at least this happened to them in the OHL and not the NCAA. Had it happened there, the banners would have come down and we wouldn't be talking about whether or not the Spits were going to get to host the Memorial Cup, we would be talking about how they were disqualified from participating (let alone hosting) through 2014.

Now there is a whole thread dedicated to the Spits shennanigans. Maybe we can take any additional discussion on this front over there?

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02-24-2013, 09:47 PM
  #266
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^Prove he wasn't? That's a helluva standard. Cast about rumors and hearsay guilt and then charge that everybody is guilty until proven innocent.

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02-24-2013, 10:00 PM
  #267
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^Prove he wasn't? That's a helluva standard.
Fair enough, but at the end of the day I really don't care who it was. I'm pretty sure the press releases said it was members of the 2009-10 team (and somewhere else read they were american - if that's the case who else would the two players be?) but I can't be bothered to go look them up. If it was anyone from that team, they should consider themselves fortunate the penalties didn't include taking away the championship. Moreover, they cheated. They got caught. Be happy that it didn't disqualify them from future tournaments.

You wondered why I wanted to leave this alone? I was commenting on Fowler in the context of this thread, I have no real desire to rehash this entire discussion in the Memorial Cup thread. Here, I looked up the appropriate threads for you:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1244401
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1244395

I may even follow you guys over there.

PS: Why did edit this portion out of your post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
Here's something I'll ask you - if you were one of the players that went as far as signing your statement and thus creating the proof necessary to then penalize the Spits Organization would you show up to a Mem Cup Alum fundraiser function six days prior to the penalty being announced, joining your old teammates and current coaching staff on the ice for a glorified pick-up game? Knowing full well that the Spits ownership would have been in contact with the league and know who gave them up?

Because Fowler was there.

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02-24-2013, 10:05 PM
  #268
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Does anybody know who is bidding to host the 2014 Memorial Cup?

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02-24-2013, 10:06 PM
  #269
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Does anybody know who is bidding to host the 2014 Memorial Cup?
Barrie, London, Windsor. Guelph also intended on bidding, but appear to have pulled out. Not sure if they can change their minds again.

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02-25-2013, 08:16 AM
  #270
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PS: Why did edit this portion out of your post:
I removed it because I didn't want to agree to play to your standard of having to prove innocence.

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02-25-2013, 09:43 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
Barrie, London, Windsor. Guelph also intended on bidding, but appear to have pulled out. Not sure if they can change their minds again.
I think London has to be favoured - I think they can roster a much better team than Windsor and Barrie for next year that is one of the major conditions for hosting. If Windsor do not make playoffs this year they will be hard pressed to convince the selection committee that they will good enough for next year.

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02-25-2013, 10:30 AM
  #272
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I think London has to be favoured - I think they can roster a much better team than Windsor and Barrie for next year that is one of the major conditions for hosting. If Windsor do not make playoffs this year they will be hard pressed to convince the selection committee that they will good enough for next year.
No argument London has a better team coming back next year then Barrie or Windsor
but 1 thing the committee will look at is the record of Windsor post trade deadline
where right now it stands at 10-10-0-1 despite 77 man games missed to injury,as well as 20 man games missed due to suspension,amongst the injuries 2 of their best D-men have missed 30 games combined,both of whom are to able to return next yr,in fact
9 D with OHL experience are able to return next year excluding next year ,including their
starting 6,as well 2 goalies are able to return,plus 6 out of 8 top forwards returning,including potential 50 goal man Kerby Rychel,the 6th highest scoring rookie Josh HoSang,O/A to be Remy Giftopoulous
Spits while not having having a 1st rd pick in this year"s entry,do have 2 1st rd picks in the Euro draft,1 which will be in the top 8,the other in the top 24 or so,will definitely have to make them count
No doubt the Spits have to upgrade the talent,more so upfront,but there is somethig to work with
1-2 overagers can and will be acquired,2 high Euro Picks utilized,orgaizational signings
trades,entry draft,free agents
It should be noted this years Saskatoon has made 9 trades this year to help get where they are at,Windsor does not have the ability re assets wise to do that much but there avenues availbable
London excluding O/As have only 4 Dmen returning with OHL although it is expected they will use 1 maybe 2 if Seth Griffith does not return in that area,as 4 returning wont cut it by itself
They are or appear to be set in goal,with both Pattarson and Stolarz returning,as I doubt Philly sends Stoarz to the AHL next yr
London also has 12 forwards plus o/sa returning
As for Barrie,they lose their goalie from this year in Niederberger,Scheiffele,Camara,Byers,possibly Theoret,their defence is good,not enough upfront and goal to be truly considered,plus i dont think they have the infrastructure to compete

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02-25-2013, 11:33 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by hockeysar View Post
I think London has to be favoured - I think they can roster a much better team than Windsor and Barrie for next year that is one of the major conditions for hosting. If Windsor do not make playoffs this year they will be hard pressed to convince the selection committee that they will good enough for next year.
London is the best option on every objective comparision, other than transportation (and that probably plays the least role, so let's not get into that again). The only reason that London won't get the cup is if the committee decides that once every 9 years is too soon. I happen to think it is, but we'll see.

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02-26-2013, 12:21 AM
  #274
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but 1 thing the committee will look at is the record of Windsor post trade deadline where right now it stands at 10-10-0-1 despite 77 man games missed to injury,as well as 20 man games missed due to suspension
I think the committee will look at Windsor's record post deadline too, but I don't think they'll see it as a positive. Below .500? Sure, there's been some injuries but it's also with the benefit of Aleardi and Khokhlachev and it will be unlikely they have either back.

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in fact 9 D with OHL experience are able to return next year excluding next year ,including their starting 6,as well 2 goalies are able to return,plus 6 out of 8 top forwards returning,including potential 50 goal man Kerby Rychel,the 6th highest scoring rookie Josh HoSang,O/A to be Remy Giftopoulous
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
As for Barrie,they lose their goalie from this year in Niederberger,Scheiffele,Camara,Byers,possibly Theoret,their defence is good,not enough upfront and goal to be truly considered,plus i dont think they have the infrastructure to compete
I'll post an equally biased view from the other perspective. The Colts will also likely return a full defence corps including the best defenceman on either team - Belle River's own - Aaron Ekblad. He can play 30 minutes a night next year in crunch time so the Colts really only need three other guys. Up front Anasthasiou - Hall - Theoret outscore any top line the Spits can put out there and that's assuming that AC doesn't come back. Bradford - McDonald - Lemieux will have to improve, but the Colts also have the following picks in first five rounds of the upcoming draft to deal:

2013 Colts: 1st (once drafted), KIT 3rd, PLY 3rd, OTT 3rd, WSR 4th

vs.

2013 Spits: 3rd, SAG 4th, ERI 5th

The Colts will have at least one OA spot and will also have two import spots to fill with an eye to improving what they already have.

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02-26-2013, 01:35 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
London is the best option on every objective comparision, other than transportation (and that probably plays the least role, so let's not get into that again). The only reason that London won't get the cup is if the committee decides that once every 9 years is too soon. I happen to think it is, but we'll see.

Agreed, with the exception of transportation. Nine years is simply to soon to host the Memorial Cup again.

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